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PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 2:09 am
uptempo wrote:
E-Man wrote:
uptempo wrote:Why is it that the Warriors have such low expectations?

Nobody in the front office nor on the coaching staff is held accountable for the most important statistic, wins vs. losses.

Terry Porter was let go today from his coaching duties with the Phoenix Suns (http://stats.sfgate.com/nba/story.asp?i ... 8010000101), and it was reported this morning on ESPN that Steve Kerr is also on the hot seat as GM.

The won-loss record of the Phoenix Suns: 28-23.

The won-loss record of the Warriors: 19-35; yet, Mullin and Nelson get no criticism from either the local media nor fans. We Warrior fans deserve better.


mullin do his job and keep doin what he's doin, or fire him already. all this stuff about keeping mullin out of the loop is stupid...he's brought the team back from its embarrassing dunleavy-murphy-foyle-fisher-jrich contract days

Who gave these embarrassing contracts to dunleavy-murphy-foyle-and fisher?

Mullin.

At the very best, he has attempted to clean up the mess that he, alone, created.

Quit drinking the Mullin Kool-Aid. He hired Monty. He hired Nelson. His teams will have only made the playoffs one out of five seasons. Mullin and Nelson, BOTH, need to go!


here's why porter got fired and Mully + Nelly seem to get no heat from the oakland fans/press

1) we have the youngest team in the league, not only do we forgive the Jr's for their growing pains, but there is the belief among fans that every game, win or loss, we get a little better.

2) after the leader of our team left last year, we are now in total rebuilding/chemistry mode. if you include marco belinelli as a new player. over half our team is new. they are not going to gel immediately

3) it's not like we really had a crappy season last year, the west was crazy good... we would have been a 3 seed if we were in the east don't forget.

4) we've been unbelievably unhealthy this year

5) Sun's are loaded with a two time MVP, the most dominant big man in the NBA, and an olympian gold medalist/all-star in Amare. there is WAY more talent on that team. therefore the expectations are higher.

6) The Sun's are kind of in desperation mode - they are coming to the end of an era (that never won it all to make it more depressing), and they don't really have any promising young talent to build on.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 18, 2009 5:32 pm
Just because we had one of our best players out because of the moped situation does not mean we need to dissamble the entire team even for a PF like Bosh. Fully loaded we are a decent team missing a veteran PF like Rasheed, Gooden, PJ Brown type that will clog the middle with Biedrins and move well in the pick and roll. Of course the more logical answer would be cheappy BW (because of the down economy middle of the road teams covet younger players and/or picks) who can produce Gooden type numbers 13/8 or whatever. With or without Nellie, we still won't be very good (7-10th) seed in the West, so forgetting becoming a championship contender year after year. Another factor is health (we were out a lot of key players because of injuries and the Amare, T-Mac, Yao, Boozer, Chandler, Bynum, Ginobli will make and break teams in the West). Basically, the Suns and Hornets are giving away young bigs because of salary cap issues, and a lot of big name players can and will spend the season on IR. Next year requires continuity, and I would trade our pick, and bring in a vet PF to start next to Biedrins (Gooden or Wallace would be servicable or any euro/argentna in the mold of Oberto, Scola). That leaves us with a bench of Turiaf, Watson, Bellinelli, Wright, Azu, Mags which would be rather good compared to the rest of the competition.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 9:30 am
i don't know, but we might have couple all-stars in a year or two in - possibly- ellis and - almost surely - randolph. so, i think if we keep the youth, we'll be exciting in a year or two.
solid center in andris
pf in wright and at times in randolph
sf in randolph
sg/pg in ellis
sf/sg in azubuike or bellineli
nice young core
ok, i know that salary wise to keep them we'll have to ship some of that out, because it will be hard to ship jack or magg, well i hope we don't extend crawford.
anyway, this young core would be amazing to watch
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 8:58 pm
martin wrote:i don't know, but we might have couple all-stars in a year or two in - possibly- ellis and - almost surely - randolph. so, i think if we keep the youth, we'll be exciting in a year or two.
solid center in andris
pf in wright and at times in randolph
sf in randolph
sg/pg in ellis
sf/sg in azubuike or bellineli
nice young core
ok, i know that salary wise to keep them we'll have to ship some of that out, because it will be hard to ship jack or magg, well i hope we don't extend crawford.
anyway, this young core would be amazing to watch



Here's the thing martin, if they're going to be allstars, they'll leave or get traded for garbage :? Just the way it's always been with this management
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 9:01 pm
uptempo wrote:Why is it that the Warriors have such low expectations?

Nobody in the front office nor on the coaching staff is held accountable for the most important statistic, wins vs. losses.

Terry Porter was let go today from his coaching duties with the Phoenix Suns (http://stats.sfgate.com/nba/story.asp?i ... 8010000101), and it was reported this morning on ESPN that Steve Kerr is also on the hot seat as GM.

The won-loss record of the Phoenix Suns: 28-23.

The won-loss record of the Warriors: 19-35; yet, Mullin and Nelson get no criticism from either the local media nor fans. We Warrior fans deserve better.


INJURIES. The warriors have a great young nucleus. We are an elite team at home. We will be much, much better next year.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 9:11 pm
David Wood wrote:
uptempo wrote:Why is it that the Warriors have such low expectations?

Nobody in the front office nor on the coaching staff is held accountable for the most important statistic, wins vs. losses.

Terry Porter was let go today from his coaching duties with the Phoenix Suns (http://stats.sfgate.com/nba/story.asp?i ... 8010000101), and it was reported this morning on ESPN that Steve Kerr is also on the hot seat as GM.

The won-loss record of the Phoenix Suns: 28-23.

The won-loss record of the Warriors: 19-35; yet, Mullin and Nelson get no criticism from either the local media nor fans. We Warrior fans deserve better.


INJURIES. The warriors have a great young nucleus. We are an elite team at home. We will be much, much better next year.



Love your optimism, but not without a PG and not with this coach behaving how he is. Nelson did better the last two years to say the least, though still with the trends of not playing the young guys alot I might add
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 9:50 pm
migya wrote:
David Wood wrote:
uptempo wrote:Why is it that the Warriors have such low expectations?

Nobody in the front office nor on the coaching staff is held accountable for the most important statistic, wins vs. losses.

Terry Porter was let go today from his coaching duties with the Phoenix Suns (http://stats.sfgate.com/nba/story.asp?i ... 8010000101), and it was reported this morning on ESPN that Steve Kerr is also on the hot seat as GM.

The won-loss record of the Phoenix Suns: 28-23.

The won-loss record of the Warriors: 19-35; yet, Mullin and Nelson get no criticism from either the local media nor fans. We Warrior fans deserve better.


INJURIES. The warriors have a great young nucleus. We are an elite team at home. We will be much, much better next year.



Love your optimism, but not without a PG and not with this coach behaving how he is. Nelson did better the last two years to say the least, though still with the trends of not playing the young guys alot I might add


Even without a PG, if this roster was healthy, our record wouldn't be that bad.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2009 10:07 pm
xbay wrote:
migya wrote:
David Wood wrote:
uptempo wrote:Why is it that the Warriors have such low expectations?

Nobody in the front office nor on the coaching staff is held accountable for the most important statistic, wins vs. losses.

Terry Porter was let go today from his coaching duties with the Phoenix Suns (http://stats.sfgate.com/nba/story.asp?i ... 8010000101), and it was reported this morning on ESPN that Steve Kerr is also on the hot seat as GM.

The won-loss record of the Phoenix Suns: 28-23.

The won-loss record of the Warriors: 19-35; yet, Mullin and Nelson get no criticism from either the local media nor fans. We Warrior fans deserve better.


INJURIES. The warriors have a great young nucleus. We are an elite team at home. We will be much, much better next year.



Love your optimism, but not without a PG and not with this coach behaving how he is. Nelson did better the last two years to say the least, though still with the trends of not playing the young guys alot I might add


Even without a PG, if this roster was healthy, our record wouldn't be that bad.


Every team has injuries, and every team has to make adjustments accordingly.

This team is deficient at the point guard position, does not play good perimeter nor interior defense, and consistently gets out rebounded by opposing teams.

The front office is overmatched by the other GMs throughout the conference and Nelson was brought in as a gimmick to keep fans interested after the Monty debacle.

Let's face it; Cohan needs to get out the dustpan and broom and immediately get rid of Mullin and Nelson. One playoff appearance in five seasons should be reason enough to get rid of Mullin. Getting rid of Nelson is much more problematic; he just recently signed the contract extension. Nelson may need to move upstairs and bring in a more appropriate coach who can better develp the younger players.

Wow, this team is a mess...sigh...[/quote]

Cohan's not going to do that. He's too obsessed about making money. It doesn't matter how bad this team is, they continue to make money, and it continues to make Cohan richer. Cohan doesn't care about building a contender, because the fan base show they don't care about winning since the fans keep coming. That's not the case, because I'm pretty sure all the fans want to see a contender, but at the same time they want to continue to support this team.

Still, us going to Oracle, buying the merchandise just shows Cohan that despite all the wrong here, he's more interested in creating more ways to make money, not win championships.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 1:00 am
xbay wrote:
migya wrote:
David Wood wrote:
uptempo wrote:Why is it that the Warriors have such low expectations?

Nobody in the front office nor on the coaching staff is held accountable for the most important statistic, wins vs. losses.

Terry Porter was let go today from his coaching duties with the Phoenix Suns (http://stats.sfgate.com/nba/story.asp?i ... 8010000101), and it was reported this morning on ESPN that Steve Kerr is also on the hot seat as GM.

The won-loss record of the Phoenix Suns: 28-23.

The won-loss record of the Warriors: 19-35; yet, Mullin and Nelson get no criticism from either the local media nor fans. We Warrior fans deserve better.


INJURIES. The warriors have a great young nucleus. We are an elite team at home. We will be much, much better next year.



Love your optimism, but not without a PG and not with this coach behaving how he is. Nelson did better the last two years to say the least, though still with the trends of not playing the young guys alot I might add


Even without a PG, if this roster was healthy, our record wouldn't be that bad.



Reckon the team would have won no more than four or five more games
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2009 12:05 pm
migya wrote:
xbay wrote:
migya wrote:
David Wood wrote:
uptempo wrote:Why is it that the Warriors have such low expectations?

Nobody in the front office nor on the coaching staff is held accountable for the most important statistic, wins vs. losses.

Terry Porter was let go today from his coaching duties with the Phoenix Suns (http://stats.sfgate.com/nba/story.asp?i ... 8010000101), and it was reported this morning on ESPN that Steve Kerr is also on the hot seat as GM.

The won-loss record of the Phoenix Suns: 28-23.

The won-loss record of the Warriors: 19-35; yet, Mullin and Nelson get no criticism from either the local media nor fans. We Warrior fans deserve better.


INJURIES. The warriors have a great young nucleus. We are an elite team at home. We will be much, much better next year.



Love your optimism, but not without a PG and not with this coach behaving how he is. Nelson did better the last two years to say the least, though still with the trends of not playing the young guys alot I might add


Even without a PG, if this roster was healthy, our record wouldn't be that bad.



Reckon the team would have won no more than four or five more games


Sadly, you are correct. Nelson would still be playing small ball and the team would be outrebounded each and every night.

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 21, 2009 12:41 pm
I'm not sure the West was crazy good -- I think it's more correct to say that the conference with an eight-games-under-.500 team making the playoffs was crazy bad.

(Although that team represented pretty well in the against the Celtics!)

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:02 am
This article says it all (btw, I had called it right here on this board when our dim-witted and slow front office guy, Chris Mullin, had hired Nelson; that he, Mullin, would get tunneled and then shafted by Nelson):

http://www.mercurynews.com/sportsheadlines/ci_11929555

What has happened to the Warriors?
By Monte Poole


Bay Area News Group

Posted: 03/16/2009 10:41:21 PM PDT


Baron Davis, the former prince of Oracle Arena, makes his first appearance tonight as a Los Angeles Clipper in the facility where he once raised the Warriors from the dead.

For Warriors fans, the sight of Davis most assuredly will summon memories of spring 2007, when their team blasted into the playoffs for the first time since 1994 and, for two brilliant weeks, lit up the landscape.

"It's definitely like a homecoming," Davis said last week, anticipating his return. "A lot of memories are there, and the adrenaline is going to be circulating. It'll be good to see a lot of familiar faces in the stands."

Those familiar faces, the high-spirited "We Believe" fans who enthusiastically support their energetic team, now try to cope with the reality of this woebegone season, which, according to numerous sources, can be traced to Coach Don Nelson, team president Robert Rowell (who operates on behalf of owner Chris Cohan) and decisions based less on building the best possible team than on impulse and ego.

Less than two years after an improbable run led to one of the biggest postseason upsets in NBA history — a first-round victory over No. 1 seed Dallas — and one year after boisterous crowds cheered a 48-win team, the Warriors are back to the outskirts of the league. Eliminated from the playoff picture Sunday, they are 23-43 and likely to lose more than 50 games for the first time since 2002.

How did it come to this?

Well,


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there was the Monta Ellis injury, which robbed the team of its most electrifying player for 43 games and created friction between Ellis and ownership. Yet there is so much more.

Interviews with nearly a dozen players, coaches, agents and league executives — all of whom have had contact with the team in the past 12 months — reveal the widespread perception of the Warriors as a dysfunctional organization where personal agendas often trump sound judgment, with subjective moves sabotaging any real vision.

"There is no long-term plan," one NBA executive said.

"There is no plan, period," one agent said. "They act like there is and they say there is, but there isn't."

It's personal

It's not by coincidence that the blame for this swift decline lands squarely in the laps of Rowell and Nelson. The feeling around the league is that, with executive vice president of basketball operations Chris Mullin marginalized, the Warriors are run by two men who have difficulty keeping their emotions out of the equation.

For Nelson, this is nothing new. Chris Webber arrived in 1993 with everything Nelson claims to want in a big man, skilled at shooting, passing, rebounding and shot-blocking. But Webber's impetuous presence collided with Nelson's pathological need to exercise control. Rather than submerge this for the greater good, Nelson alienated his rookie star and ran him out of town. There were no winners.

History now seems to be repeating.

Davis, according to numerous sources, was prepared to sign a three-year contract extension with the Warriors, as negotiated by his agent, Todd Ramasar, and Mullin. Rowell, according to several sources, canceled the deal over the final year of the contract. Davis, feeling slighted, opted out and became a Clipper.

"The final year of a contract is the last thing you worry about," a league executive said. "It's pretty simple: If you're happy with the player, you keep him. If not, his expiring contract makes him easy to trade."

Rowell, according to an agent familiar with the details, "dug in his heels," deciding it would be his way or no way. Some sources believe Rowell's decision was made at Nelson's behest, while others believe Rowell simply wanted to assert himself.

What happened next, though, exposes the Warriors as impulsive, unfocused or naive, or all three.

After losing Davis over a deal averaging $13 million, the Warriors quickly turned to Clippers free agent Elton Brand, offering $90 million. Though Davis has a history of injuries, Brand was coming off major surgery. When that offer was declined by agent David Falk, the club set its sights on Wizards free agent Gilbert Arenas, a former Warrior who became an All-Star in Washington. Arenas reportedly was offered $103 million.

Within minutes, Davis and Arenas, buddies from the days when they were teenagers in Los Angeles, were on the phone comparing offers and stunned by the Warriors' practices.

"Absolutely true," Davis said. "I talked to Gilbert about it."

Davis wasn't thrilled to hear the Warriors suddenly had plenty of money for other players when, as he says now, without evident bitterness, "they could have had me for less than half of that."

"It got personal with Baron," one agent said. "That's never good when you're trying to conduct business.''

A request Sunday for comment from Warriors management received no response.

Stories like this get around the league, portraying the Warriors as a team without a coherent vision, prone to knee-jerk reaction.

Mullin fadeaway

Moreover, the Davis scenario crushed the credibility of Mullin, who had spent months in negotiations. How can you trust Mullin if he has no juice? And if Mullin has no juice, who does? Rowell, preparing to offer Nelson a contract extension, bypassed Mullin and went to the coach. Forward Stephen Jackson, seeking his own contract extension, bypassed Mullin and went to Rowell.

Davis' departure set the stage for what has followed.

There was Ellis' off-court ankle injury and subsequent punishment — including, according to sources, a contentious meeting among Cohan, Rowell, Ellis and agent Jeff Fried. There also was Nelson's campaign to dump forward Al Harrington (a Mullin favorite), the coach's total icing of point guard Marcus Williams (a Mullin trade acquisition) and occasional icing of rookie forward Anthony Randolph (a Mullin draft pick).

"It seemed personal," said Williams' agent, Calvin Andrews. "We feel it's really unfortunate that he was caught up in an internal battle beyond his control."

Then there is the story still raising eyebrows around the league: Nelson informing guard Jamal Crawford, acquired for Harrington, that he should opt out of his contract or expect to be traded.

When asked about personnel, Nelson consistently directs inquiries to Mullin, despite acknowledging last week that he approached Crawford with unsolicited career advice, to the surprise of Crawford and the displeasure of his agent, Aaron Goodwin.

"He's a great coach," Goodwin said. "And in a coaching capacity, he'll continue to deliver a great product for people to watch. But there needs to be clarification on whether he's management or not. I'm told he's not, but he acts as if he is."

Nelson's rise to power, according to those close to the situation, is a result of ingratiating himself with Rowell, whose executive savvy and political wits are no match for a cunning 68-year-old coach who projects folksy wisdom and might someday enter the Hall of Fame.

"I've never seen this kind of divide, and no one from management or ownership steps in to tell this guy he's killing the team," one agent said. "At least one player wonders if it has a reached a point where Rowell is intimidated by the coach he has come to value so highly."

Mullin, the popular former player, generally has escaped blame because his lack of influence has become clear since Rowell levied punishment on Ellis.

Rowell and Nelson received contract extensions before the season; Mullin did not. Mullin's chief aide, Pete D'Alessandro, was fired in the first week of the season and replaced by Larry Riley, a Nelson confidant promoted from assistant coach. Riley was replaced on the bench by Larry Harris, a former general manager in Milwaukee and son of Del Harris, a longtime friend of Nelson's.

Mullin made the three key moves that put the team into the playoffs: acquiring Davis from New Orleans for Speedy Claxton and Dale Davis; summoning Nelson out of semi-retirement; and acquiring Jackson and Harrington from Indiana in January 2007. This probably resulted in Mullin's growing confidence, which, according to team sources, probably contributed to a rift with Rowell and Cohan.

"Since last summer, it has become increasingly obvious that they've lost the human approach to interaction and relationships," said one representative.

Hard to believe

Mullin's conspicuous silence these days would be a lot more troubling if his lame-duck status weren't so evident. Nelson has filled the authority void.

This is not what Mullin had in mind four years ago when he said his major goals were to assemble a team that could develop together and make the franchise more desirable to free agents. It worked for a while.

"All my NBA friends were talking about trying to come over," Davis recalled. "Everybody wanted to come. It was the new look, kind of like Phoenix, except we were younger. We were up and coming. We were potent. Then ... I don't know ... it just came apart."

Said Goodwin: "Golden State is still an attractive place to play. Being a resident (of Oakland), I'd love to see my free agents and other free agents come here. It's an exciting style and an opportunity to win. But with the experience I've had with Matt Barnes and Jamal, I'd have to think twice about a free agent coming here."

What nobody seems to have an opinion on is where the Warriors go from here. Rowell doesn't seem to be able to manage Nelson, and the coach has lost much of his locker room.

Not exactly the way it was two years ago when Baron and Nellie owned the town
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 2:45 am
Seems like a good article and I agree with pretty much all of it. You do realise that Mullin is heralded in this article, as he should be. He made the team better and since he was snubbed, things have gotten worse
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 2:48 am
a truly harrowing read
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 3:35 am
Quazza wrote:a truly harrowing read



:mrgreen:
Well put and I just don't care much right now about these pack of aholes that run this supposed franchise
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