What will be the suprise team of 05-06?

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2005 2:23 pm
He is soft and doesn't do many necessary things a center needs to do, like block shots or get a relatively high FG% for his position. They are the same reasons we don't play Troy at center most of the time; you need to be an inside defensive presence. Rebounding isn't enough to call yourself a center.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2005 7:58 pm
I'd rather have him than Ostertag who does nothing offensively and is not a great rebounder. The Jazz have no other choice but to use Okur at Center so they can have the most talented players out there at once
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2005 10:32 pm
True, but I'm saying they need more talent at center. Okur can't get the job done as a starter. He'd be terrific to throw in as a change-up for a more physical player, but I don't think starting is for him.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 7:07 am
He is having his best season and the Jazz would not have one some of the games without him
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 10:52 am
Forgive me, I forgot how well the Jazz were doing this season... where are they at? 2nd to last in the Midwest division?

Okur isn't helping them be a better team. He would in a lesser role, but giving HIM too much time is bad for the team because he wont deliver. Your man-crush on Deron Williams doesn't make the Jazz a better team. They are still a long way off. I agree, he'll make them better eventually, but they wont be good for the next 3 seasons.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2005 12:52 pm
I agree. Okur is not good enough to start. His stats are misleading, because that team doesn't have reliable scorers...

He'd be good off the bench, tho.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 9:22 pm
Well Okur is better than most Centers. As far as Deron Williams goes, he has been great in a few games but lately he has been bad. I don't know if he's injured or something. He will be great and the Jazz will win much because of him
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 11:02 pm
Deron Williams is the future of the Jazz, along with AK-47. No arguing that. But, like Ike, he'll need time. He wont be effective this season the way they need him to be. And Okur may be better than "most" centers... but what about "most starting" centers? He falls around the bottom of the barrell once you throw that detail in there.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 3:57 am
#32 wrote:And Okur may be better than "most" centers...


That just shows the bad shape of that position nowadays. Doesn't make Okur any better by himself.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 8:39 am
Thats what I'm saying. "Most" centers includes bench warmers, practice squad, college kids, foreign players... the fact that he's in the NBA alone signifies that he's one of the better centers in the NBA. But when you begin to factor in the fact that he's a starter... he doesn't seem so attractive anymore.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 7:24 pm
There are alot of worse starting centers: These teams have worse centers - Hawks, Hornets, Blazers, Celtics, Clippers, Sonics, Raptors, Bulls, TWolves, Mavs, Bobcats, 76ers, Wizards, Lakers, Grizzlies.

That's half the starting centers! LaFrenz is not as good right now, Okafor and Bosh are PFs, Dampier is not as good right now. Even the Spurs two centers don't produce as much.

Okur is better than most and he can score well at times, a good player to have
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2005 11:44 am
migya wrote:There are alot of worse starting centers: These teams have worse centers - Hawks, Hornets, Blazers, Celtics, Clippers, Sonics, Raptors, Bulls, TWolves, Mavs, Bobcats, 76ers, Wizards, Lakers, Grizzlies.

That's half the starting centers! LaFrenz is not as good right now, Okafor and Bosh are PFs, Dampier is not as good right now. Even the Spurs two centers don't produce as much.

Okur is better than most and he can score well at times, a good player to have

This isn't fantasy basketball where you CAN'T play a power forward at center; in fact, a HUGE number of teams out there let a tall PF play inside now! The Spurs, Bobcats, Raptors, Celtics, Bulls, Hornets, Pistons (yes, Ben Wallace has stated that he is naturally a PF, but can play center), and Lakers all usually play a power forward at the starting center spot! The main point is that most teams have the center position covered better than Utah. Besides that, I'd disagree with some of the centers you'd say Okur is better than, like Theo Ratliff in Portland. I'd certainly say Washington's Hayward is a better center (he may not score as much, but he boards and swats like a center should!), along with Samuel Dalemert in Philly! Dampier is better than Okur by default because he's proven he can score... Okur hasn't proven he can block shots at all.

Memet Okur is nothing special. Certainly not one of the league's better centers. He's just another big guy who likes scoring. There's no shortage of that in the league and some of us are tired of seeing it. People, like me, would much prefer the league to get back to when centers were big, bad, rebounded, and blocked the hell out of people. Shooting jumpers from 20 feet out disgusts me when I see a 7-footer doing it (yes, it took me a while to get used to Murphy... his 10 boards a game helped me except him and I'm now one of the biggest Troy supporters here). I'm a believer that scoring can (and should be done) by small forwards and shooting guards on most teams. Okur trying to take matters into his own hands and score isn't what the Jazz need; they lack an inside defensive presence who doesn't wear #47! That's the reason they brought back Greg Ostertag! They need a shot-blocker! Okur is not what they are looking for.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2005 8:05 pm
#32 wrote:This isn't fantasy basketball where you CAN'T play a power forward at center; in fact, a HUGE number of teams out there let a tall PF play inside now! The Spurs, Bobcats, Raptors, Celtics, Bulls, Hornets, Pistons (yes, Ben Wallace has stated that he is naturally a PF, but can play center), and Lakers all usually play a power forward at the starting center spot! The main point is that most teams have the center position covered better than Utah. Besides that, I'd disagree with some of the centers you'd say Okur is better than, like Theo Ratliff in Portland. I'd certainly say Washington's Hayward is a better center (he may not score as much, but he boards and swats like a center should!), along with Samuel Dalemert in Philly! Dampier is better than Okur by default because he's proven he can score... Okur hasn't proven he can block shots at all.


No need for me to go into this, their performances this season prove my point that Okur is better. Ratliff "was" a defense presence who scored rarely and Haywood is a player that is approaching decency but has yet to become and probably never will, an effective player.

Okur rebounds decently - Sometimes very good, sometimes quite bad, but enough.


#32 wrote:Memet Okur is nothing special. Certainly not one of the league's better centers. He's just another big guy who likes scoring. There's no shortage of that in the league and some of us are tired of seeing it. People, like me, would much prefer the league to get back to when centers were big, bad, rebounded, and blocked the hell out of people. Shooting jumpers from 20 feet out disgusts me when I see a 7-footer doing it (yes, it took me a while to get used to Murphy... his 10 boards a game helped me except him and I'm now one of the biggest Troy supporters here). I'm a believer that scoring can (and should be done) by small forwards and shooting guards on most teams. Okur trying to take matters into his own hands and score isn't what the Jazz need; they lack an inside defensive presence who doesn't wear #47! That's the reason they brought back Greg Ostertag! They need a shot-blocker! Okur is not what they are looking for.


Again, no need me for me to go into it - Okur scores and the Jazz at this point in time "need him to". He needs to block some shots and be more of a physical presence but he is a very effective player for the Jazz right now.

As far as wanting Centers to be anything but a scorer - Foyle is a prime example of that being false! I personnaly don't want to see the nba full of Adonal Foyles!!!!!
Players like Shaq (one of your favourites) score well and show that it is up to everyone to score if they can and he certainly has carried his fair share of teams. Centers that can score well are a rarity and the Jazz must be happy that Okur showed up this season thus far
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2005 10:49 pm
migya wrote:Again, no need me for me to go into it - Okur scores and the Jazz at this point in time "need him to". He needs to block some shots and be more of a physical presence but he is a very effective player for the Jazz right now.

As far as wanting Centers to be anything but a scorer - Foyle is a prime example of that being false! I personnaly don't want to see the nba full of Adonal Foyles!!!!!
Players like Shaq (one of your favourites) score well and show that it is up to everyone to score if they can and he certainly has carried his fair share of teams. Centers that can score well are a rarity and the Jazz must be happy that Okur showed up this season thus far

If Shaquille O'Neal couldn't block shots, rebound well, and get points with an extremely high field goal percentage, he wouldn't be nearly as great. I admit he's one of my favorite players of all time, but it's because he's a bump and grind, elbow-throwing, inside presence... something that the NBA needs to realize is a great thing to have at center. I believe allowing centers to think they're doing a great job by simply being a 7-foot small forward is misleading and produces more soft centers who are too scared to get physical. Shaquille is push-and-shove in the middle... the way centers should be. You wouldn't wanna see a league full of Adonal Foyles... but I, personally, respect the fact that he's a traditional center who blocks shots, boxes out, and plays aggressive defense. The fact that his inside game is lacking and his rebounding could stand to improve are just aspects of his game that he needs to get better at. As a center, he knows his role isn't the job of scoring baskets from the perimeter and I, personally, enjoy that quality in a big man. The metrosexuals of basketball are 7-footers who don't wanna get their hands dirty by slamming around near the bucket.

My personal feelings aside, Memet Okur is only putting up big numbers due to the continual injuries of Andrei Kirilenko and Carlos Boozer. When playing with a cast of players who aren't garbage squad status or rookies still finding their niche, Okur slowly disappears into a fog. The Jazz would do much better with him as a backup (perimeter centers do better in a reserve role... see Sam Perkins and Raef Lafrenz). When Kirilenko returns full time, along with Boozer, and Deron Williams becomes something other than just a rookie, Okur will be seldomly noticed during games... he'll probably lose his job once his scoring is no longer needed. Okur's role is much like Dominique's was for the Spurs; a way to put up buckets and distract the fans while the team itself began it's rebuilding stage.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2005 12:32 pm
#32 wrote:You wouldn't wanna see a league full of Adonal Foyles... but I, personally, respect the fact that he's a traditional center who blocks shots, boxes out, and plays aggressive defense. The fact that his inside game is lacking and his rebounding could stand to improve are just aspects of his game that he needs to get better at. As a center, he knows his role isn't the job of scoring baskets from the perimeter and I, personally, enjoy that quality in a big man. The metrosexuals of basketball are 7-footers who don't wanna get their hands dirty by slamming around near the bucket.


Ok, now, be a man and admit that you wouldn't wanna see a league full of Adonal Foyles...
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