With disucssion going on about "tanking" and the like...........I wanted to have a discussion about the great tank jobs and franchise turn arounds that we have seen.

The greatest example I have ever (personally) seen of a team with GREAT management, tanking on purpose with a specific plan is =

The 96/97 San Antonio Spurs

In 95/96 they were 59-23, the season that they shipped Rodman at the start of.

David Robinson and Sean Elliott get injured, Charles Smith misses most of the year..............what do they do? they bring in/play a load of one year expiring (and existing guys they had) journeymen/scrubs/old guys =

Nique Wilkins.
Mad Max Maxwell.
Carl Herrera plays a hell of alot.
Monty Williams plays a hell of alot.
Will Purdue plays alot.
Greg "Hammerhead" Anderson plays alot.
Corey Alexander plays alot.

Essshkk............can anyone say TANK???

Popovich assumes head coaching role a quarter way through the season...........they go 20-62.

They get Duncan with the top pick Charles Smith/Nique/Maxwell come off the books, Robinson comes back, Elliott comes back, theyve still got Avery, Del Negro, Chuck Person...........in 97-98 they are 56-26.

Can you rebuild whilst tanking any better than that???..........of course, everyone knew Duncan was coming out the following year, so they knew they were going to get a superstar if they tanked...........but still, a pretty amazing, and superbly structured/well thought out quick rebuild.

(In case your wondering, I used to kinda like the Spurs back then, and used to have them as like a 2nd team, never ahead of the Warriors of course but I just liked their team.............but oddly, stopped that about the time they drafted Duncan )
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Also, New Orleans, the year we got Baron from them.............they take Speedy and Dale Davis from us for him (awful trade but they had a plan!!!) they were 41-41 in 03/04 with Baron............then let Baron go and tank 04/05 on their way to a 18-64 record.

They draft Chris Paul, and sign Tyson Chandler and Peja Stojakovic the year after with the money let go from Barons max deal.............a 3 year turn around, pretty much revolving around the Baron deal.
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If only our management had even a quarter of the sense that these guys had............the amount of times weve had the opportunity to rebuild, the amount of high draft picks weve had but we can just never seem to turn the corner like these teams did.

(Sh*t..........I meant to post this in the NBA Forum..........could mod type person move it please! :mrgreen: )

Moved.

I just don't consider that Spurs team as any kind of rebuilding. That was a playoff roster whose season was over after David Robinson got injured, so they tanked the season hoping for a high draft pick and they got lucky and got Duncan. That's a tank job, not rebuilding.

Rebuiding requires changing your roster upside down, not just adding a great player via draft to a team that's already good.


The rebuilding they did after that is a much better example, and it didn't even involve any tanking, just very good drafting with low draft picks (like Ginobili or Parker).

TMC wrote:Moved.

That's a tank job, not rebuilding.

Thats why I put "Tank Job / Rebuild"

And this =

bigstrads wrote:The greatest example I have ever (personally) seen of a team with GREAT management, tanking on purpose with a specific plan is =

The 96/97 San Antonio Spurs

Thanks for moving it.

TMC wrote:Moved.

I just don't consider that Spurs team as any kind of rebuilding. That was a playoff roster whose season was over after David Robinson got injured, so they tanked the season hoping for a high draft pick and they got lucky and got Duncan. That's a tank job, not rebuilding.

Rebuiding requires changing your roster upside down, not just adding a great player via draft to a team that's already good.


The rebuilding they did after that is a much better example, and it didn't even involve any tanking, just very good drafting with low draft picks (like Ginobili or Parker).

I agree. Having Dominique showed they were trying to win by getting such talent. They had no talented big guy and since Admiral joined the Spurs they revolved around him and they didn't have any idea how to play without him. They tanked but they got lucky getting Duncan, as the Celts had to lottery picks and could have easily got the #1 pick.

As TMC said, the drafting of guys like Ginobili and Parker, among a few others, was total mastery and great drafting. I've always liked the Spurs, they are slow and quite boring but they are a moral team that behaves and their smart roster management has been the best I've ever seen

bigstrads wrote:

TMC wrote:Moved.

That's a tank job, not rebuilding.

Thats why I put "Tank Job / Rebuild"

Yeah, but still it's a different concept. Those Spurs were already built. They just lacked one final piece that turned out to be the best player of the Spurs franchise history. It's a great example of tanking, not so much of rebuilding.


A example of rebuilding is Boston. Ainge traded Al Jefferson for KG, a couple of role players for Ray Allen, and adding them to Pierce allowed them to be a title contender. In just one offseason. That's a great example of rebuilding.

TMC wrote:

bigstrads wrote:

TMC wrote:Moved.

That's a tank job, not rebuilding.

Thats why I put "Tank Job / Rebuild"

Yeah, but still it's a different concept. Those Spurs were already built. They just lacked one final piece that turned out to be the best player of the Spurs franchise history. It's a great example of tanking, not so much of rebuilding.


A example of rebuilding is Boston. Ainge traded Al Jefferson for KG, a couple of role players for Ray Allen, and adding them to Pierce allowed them to be a title contender. In just one offseason. That's a great example of rebuilding.

Ohh my good god.................

I made this thread of the back of people talkingg about TANKING this season to get Rubio or Griffin or whatever.

SO...........my best example of TANKING!!! is the 96/97 Spurs...........like I said.

I added the "Rebuilding" bit, after the "/" as a "Whats the best Tank Job OR Rebuild"..........to generate other examples of teams that rebuilt or tanked seasons for specific purpose............I know my example was a TANK JOB!............damn, just come up with another example or read my post properly bro.

migya wrote:I agree. Having Dominique showed they were trying to win by getting such talent.

Yeah, a 37 year old Nique, playing his last year in the NBA before heading off the Europe............on a one year deal.............is a real indication that they wanted to win!

No, they signed him to make them not SO bad.............but bad enough to get a good chance at that top pick.

The Suprs were lucky to win that Lottery. The Celtics had multiple picks and the worst record in the league. I believe their 2 picks turned into Ron Mercer and who was the second one? What would have happened to the Spurs had David Stern not wanted Tim Duncan to be a Spur? Would they have been so Dynastic with Keith Van Horn?

"Always" Next wrote:The Celtics had multiple picks and the worst record in the league. I believe their 2 picks turned into Ron Mercer and who was the second one?

Billups, I think.

TMC wrote:

"Always" Next wrote:The Celtics had multiple picks and the worst record in the league. I believe their 2 picks turned into Ron Mercer and who was the second one?

Billups, I think.

I actually typed Billups.....but I couldnt remember. Was he immediately traded, or did he ever play for the C's?

bigstrads wrote:

migya wrote:I agree. Having Dominique showed they were trying to win by getting such talent.

Yeah, a 37 year old Nique, playing his last year in the NBA before heading off the Europe............on a one year deal.............is a real indication that they wanted to win!

No, they signed him to make them not SO bad.............but bad enough to get a good chance at that top pick.

Dominique lead those Spurs in scoring. That guy was still a very good player and they could have picked up a much worse player

"Always" Next wrote:

TMC wrote:

"Always" Next wrote:The Celtics had multiple picks and the worst record in the league. I believe their 2 picks turned into Ron Mercer and who was the second one?

Billups, I think.

I actually typed Billups.....but I couldnt remember. Was he immediately traded, or did he ever play for the C's?

He played a half season with the Celtics before being shipped to the Raptors. Then, he was traded to Denver, then to Orlando, signed by Minny, then Detroit... and now he's in Denver.

xbay wrote:

"Always" Next wrote:

TMC wrote:

"Always" Next wrote:The Celtics had multiple picks and the worst record in the league. I believe their 2 picks turned into Ron Mercer and who was the second one?

Billups, I think.

I actually typed Billups.....but I couldnt remember. Was he immediately traded, or did he ever play for the C's?

He played a half season with the Celtics before being shipped to the Raptors. Then, he was traded to Denver, then to Orlando, signed by Minny, then Detroit... and now he's in Denver.

For as good as he turned out....he sure got moved around. Goes to show you that even a quality player can start off as a journeyman.

"Always" Next wrote:

xbay wrote:

"Always" Next wrote:

TMC wrote:

"Always" Next wrote:The Celtics had multiple picks and the worst record in the league. I believe their 2 picks turned into Ron Mercer and who was the second one?

Billups, I think.

I actually typed Billups.....but I couldnt remember. Was he immediately traded, or did he ever play for the C's?

He played a half season with the Celtics before being shipped to the Raptors. Then, he was traded to Denver, then to Orlando, signed by Minny, then Detroit... and now he's in Denver.

For as good as he turned out....he sure got moved around. Goes to show you that even a quality player can start off as a journeyman.

He was pretty good but not great until he got to the TWolves and more so in Detroit

migya wrote:

"Always" Next wrote:

xbay wrote:

"Always" Next wrote:

TMC wrote:

"Always" Next wrote:The Celtics had multiple picks and the worst record in the league. I believe their 2 picks turned into Ron Mercer and who was the second one?

Billups, I think.

I actually typed Billups.....but I couldnt remember. Was he immediately traded, or did he ever play for the C's?

He played a half season with the Celtics before being shipped to the Raptors. Then, he was traded to Denver, then to Orlando, signed by Minny, then Detroit... and now he's in Denver.

For as good as he turned out....he sure got moved around. Goes to show you that even a quality player can start off as a journeyman.

He was pretty good but not great until he got to the TWolves and more so in Detroit

He finally learned how to play within himself. He was always a talent....but it ook him a long time to realize his potential.