People forget how dominant Kobe was

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» Thu Aug 03, 2017 4:25 am
I feel that now when people think of Kobe, they often think about his last 3 to 4 years where he was a shadow of himself. If he would have retired after his first major injury, I think people would have remembered him a little differently.

I bring this up because Jordan said that Kobe is better all time than Lebron. But so many people act like it's a sin to think that. And this really makes me think people forgot how unstoppable Kobe was.

Now Lebron can do a lot of things. But Kobe at his peak, was making shots like he was a God. For a few years, he looked like could score like 100 points a night in his sleep. Not only did he score 81 points, but he had many games where he'd get 50 points easily. I mean, I'm serious. He dominated like very few have. And the shots he was making were incredible. It didn't matter if you put 3 guys on him. He could fade back or somehow score the ball.

So it just surprises me how it's almost sinister to think Kobe is on Lebron's level. Even when Lebron was just about to hit his peak/prime, close to 10 years ago, I remember Lebron even confessing that Kobe was still better than him. Kobe was still the man.

Even I suffer from this. Sometimes when I think about Kobe, I can't help but think of his last 3 to 4 years. Anyways.. Lebron could probably do more for a team than Kobe on a lesser team. But one on one, I think I'd take Kobe in his prime. He was making shots that looked impossible and he had this look in his eyes that he wasn't going to fear anybody.

I don't believe that Kobe isn't on Lebron's level. That's a bit of a stretch because I saw Kobe play in his prime. He dominated in ways very few could. And even if there's no way to prove that Kobe is as good or better than Lebron, Jordan does have a point. 5 championships is still more than 3. And Kobe did find a way to win without Shaq as well. I wouldn't say Kobe's all around stats are as complete. But it's the way he played. The way he made you feel. I don't care what the stats say because I saw Kobe play. And I feared him in the 4th. Regardless of the stats, I never felt that sense of fear with Lebron in the 4th.
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» Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:48 am
Kobe is one of the greatest ever, to me he is about 5th alltime if I was to rank players. He certainly was unstoppable, especially against the Warriors if most remember. I do think Lebron has past him in level but not by much.

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» Thu Aug 10, 2017 5:28 am
migya wrote:I do think Lebron has past him in level but not by much.


No doubt about it. Some of those teams LeBron dragged to the playoffs and finals Kobe could not have. For all that LeBron does he even out scores Kobe in career ppg 27 to 25.

Michael Jordan: Why He Is Wrong About the Kobe vs. LeBron Debate

In an interview with NBA TV, former Chicago Bulls guard Michael Jordan declared that if given the choice, he would take Los Angeles Lakers guard Kobe Bryant over Miami Heat forward LeBron James.

"Five beats one every time I look at it," Jordan said. "And not that (James) won't get five. He may get more than that, but five is bigger than one."

While Jordan is the greatest player of all time, he is dead wrong when it comes to this argument.

To start, LeBron James is a better individual player than Kobe Bryant. For his career, LeBron is averaging more points per game, rebounds per game, assists per game, field-goal percentage, three-point percentage, blocks per game and steals per game.


Now, Kobe Bryant fans like to point out that Kobe's first two seasons in the league were outliers and push down his overall numbers. If you are to completely disregard the first two seasons of Bryant's career, then LeBron STILL trumps Bryant in every statistical category. Except for free-throw percentage of course; Kobe's got that free-throw percentage.

As well, the argument that Kobe has five rings to LeBron's one is intrinsically flawed. Kobe Bryant has been in the league for 17 seasons. He began his career on the Los Angeles Lakers—one of the two most storied franchises in the history of the NBA.

LeBron, on the other hand, is only in his 10th NBA season. He began his career with the Cleveland Cavaliers, who are not exactly renowned as the most competent franchise in the NBA. While LeBron was in Cleveland, the second-best player he played with was Mo Williams.

LeBron and Kobe also both faced great periods of change during their career. LeBron James in the summer of 2010 left the Cleveland Cavaliers and signed with the Miami Heat, leaving behind a Cleveland Cavaliers team that was virtually the same team, only without him.

Similarly, in the summer of 2004, the Lakers traded Shaquille O'Neal to the Miami Heat. The team was relatively different, losing Gary Payton and Karl Malone, but replacing them with Caron Butler and Lamar Odom, which I would argue is a lateral move. There's an argument that the team got worse outside of the Shaq trade, but I would argue that it was more than comparable.


In 2010 with LeBron, the Cavaliers led the league with 61 wins. The next season after losing LeBron, they fell to 21 wins—second worst in the NBA. In 2004 with Shaquille O'Neal, the Lakers won 56 games and were in the NBA Finals. The next season after losing Shaq, the Lakers fell to 34 wins. The Lakers weren't competitive again until they traded for Pau Gasol in 2008.

All this being said, it is more than understandable why Jordan would pick Kobe over LeBron. Michael Jordan's career is personified by exactly one thing: winning. He is characterized as a guy who, after winning his first title, won five in the next seven years. He is most likely to pick the player who represents his career most, and that's Kobe. However, LeBron James is the superior player and will have the superior career when it's all said and done.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/1530012-michael-jordan-why-he-is-wrong-about-the-kobe-vs-lebron-debate.amp.html
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» Thu Aug 10, 2017 8:49 pm
Lebron may not be that likeable but he has had a great career that arguably is only outdone by Jordan. He has been on well built teams the last seven years but before then the Cleveland teams were pretty bad and yet he still took them pretty far.

Hopefully he won't win any more championships but he already is clearly one of the greatest players ever.
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» Fri Sep 08, 2017 10:58 am
I will have to respect all of your opinions. And I can't really refute them or get mad. But I have to give you my reason why I think Kobe is better than Lebron. Or more accurately, why I like his game better. To me, Lebron has the better all around stats. He's one of the most balanced players ever. But in my mind Kobe is the guy you need to take you over the top. Lebron is the guy that can get you there year after year. But when push comes to shove, I see Kobe who is willing to take the challenge and do whatever it takes. He has the skills to finish when it counts. I see Lebron as the guy that shrinks during big moments. There are 2 reasons in my mind. First, I feel that he doesn't have the mentality of Kobe and secondly I feel his offense isn't as skilled and so he runs out of go2 shots. Now so many people have said that the clutch gene is a myth. But here is what I found and this should not be ignored, no matter the circumstances.

Playoff Stats from NBA.com

Lebron
He is 40/106 in clutch situation
His free throw shooting is 49/67
True Shooting is, 49.8%
Assist per 36: 4.2 assists
Turnovers per 36: 4.2 turnovers

Kobe
He is 40/96 in clutch situations.
His free throw shooting is 67/79
His true shooting is 58 %
Assists per 36: 4.3 assists
Turnovers per 36: 1.7 turnovers

Finals: Last 2 minutes, margin of 3.
Lebron
He is 4/23 in clutch situations
His free throw shooting is 10/14
His true shooting is 31%
Assists per 36: 3.7 assists
TO per 36: 3.7 TO

Kobe
He is 10/20 in clutch situations
His free throw shooting is 4/5
His true shooting is 56.4%
Assists per 36: 7.5 assists
TO per 36: 1.5 TO

Finals: Last 5 minutes, margin of 5.
Lebron
17/62 in clutch situations in the finals.
32% EFG
43% TS.
Assists per 36: 4.26
TO per 36: 3.1

Kobe
28/63 in clutch situations in the finals.
46% EFG
53% TS.
Assists per 36: 3.6
TO per 36: 1.08

So clearly, there is some evidence that during big moments, Kobe is the player to be trusted. And I have watched the end of games many times in my life and in my mind, Kobe is the one that takes over. Lebron often times doesn't do what you expect him to do.

So that is why Kobe is the better player to me. Lebron is the better player for carrying a team to the big dance. He is a monster and basically a one man team that tries to play the right way. But he's never had the system that Kobe has been in, he's always played the one man role.

And while Lebron has carried bad teams to finals, we still have to look at the fact that he has lost with Bosh and Wade against Dirk. He has lost to the Spurs with Bosh and Wade by a record margin. He never really made Kevin Love better. Kyrie Irving didn't want to play with him anymore. So it's safe to say that while Lebron makes his teammates better, he takes away from the greatness of other great players. Or at least that is how it appears.

Kobe on the other hand has won the Finals twice with only Pau Gasol as his sidekick. There's more small nuances to that situation that I am not adding, but that aught to say something. Lebron can carry teams with little help, but when push comes to shove he always needs lots of help and luck. He only has one convincing Finals win and that was against OKC.

So in the end, while Lebron may be the more complete player, I don't look at him as the same as Kobe. He isn't there to finish the way Kobe has been. Now I know you can say that he does other things like make the right pass or get a block. But Kobe did what he wanted to do and he did it quite well. He gave me the impression that he overachieved or was willing to go the distance. Lebron has always gave me the impression that when push comes to shove, he doesn't have the complete will and skill set to take you over the top. He doesn't have the fadeaway shots, he isn't the shooter Kobe is. He gets gassed in the final minutes of the game. Part of that is that he relies so much on being a physically dominant player that by the time it's deep into the game, he is gassed and doesn't have the tools and skills that Kobe does. That's why I cannot just look at his points, percentages, rebounds, and assists. When it matters, he shrinks into a different player and Mamba puts on his batman cape. That is the difference I see in the two. So to me, regardless of stats, I say Kobe. When it comes to winning, he is the guy that has what it takes. When it counts, Kobe, Kobe, Kobe.

Can Kobe take bad teams to the Finals like Lebron? Probably not. But when implemented in a triangle system with the right players around him, he is the guy that can finish. Lebron has always been quite hard to build around and or to add a finishing piece around him. In the end, Kobe is who you want on a team that actually belongs. Lebron is the better individual player, better one man player. But practically, Kobe is the better finishing player and piece on a real team in a game where you need systems and teammates around you. Lebron is better at taking you there. But Kobe is better at completing the job.

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