GoldenSTWarriors

[uptempo]

The Warriors have reiterated they won't trade Thompson. The deal to Cleveland is just a matter of time now.

Not to mention we're witnessing an early sighting of Joe Lacob's future pretext for firing Kerr; multiple outlets are reporting the Warriors' hesitancy to part with Thompson is at the behest of Kerr; a first-time coach whose record as a GM is iffy at best.

When Love goes to Cleveland, 3 scenarios arise:

1, Love regresses and Thompson becomes a star... In which case, Lacob will suck up all the credit for not trading him and Kerr will have to make due without even a scrap of commendation despite being the driving force to keep Klay. I find this scenario very unlikely.

2, Thompson regresses (or stays the same), but Love is unspectacular; either due to injury or a lesser role. This might be the most likely scenario and if it comes to fruition, nothing in the media will be made of it.

Or 3, Thompson stays the same (or, God help us, regresses) and Love kills it in Cleveland; helping lead them to a title (or at least deep in the playoffs). This is also a pretty likely scenario and if it happens, Kerr will have a MASSIVE strike on his Lacob-resume... And, unless Joe Lacob is a closet racist slash God-o-phobe, he'll be bringin the wrath come contract time. Cause we can all agree: roadblocking a trade for the best PF in basketball is a helluva lot more agregious than winning 50+ games and taking a twice-as-high seed to 7 contests in the playoffs. If Mark Jackson got publically humiliated en route to a coaching castration, imagine what'll happen to Kerr if he flops as a first-year coach AND becomes the face of 'Why the Warriors Didn't Swing a Trade for Kevin Love.' It'll be a hanging in the town square... That is, provided the universe has any real cosmic justice, cause I swear if Lacob let's a travesty like that slide after canning Mark Jackson for having a good-but-not-great year, I'll have an extremely difficult time clapping for our majority owner and I was one of the few to actually have his back on Chris Mullin night 3 years ago.

Your analysis is spot on and correct! Unfortunately, scenario #3 is the most likely outcome.

UPDATE

As of 10 hours ago, Golden State has made Klay Thompson available in trade talks to Minnesota. YEAH BOY.

http://www.canishoopus.com/2014/7/18/59 ... rade-asset

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So, now we wait. It's really up to Minnesota as to whether they'd rather have Andrew Wiggins or Klay Thompson... only we have a kicker the likes of DLee and Cleveland's got jack sh*t.

[warriorsstepup]

Now they want to offer Klay since Wiggins is involved. Cleveland changed the game by offering Wiggins, Minny drafted the ultra athletic Lavine at PG/SG, Wiggins will offer them the needed buzz, I can see them pairing them two together.

Our offer then will continue to have Lee involved, If I am Minny do take the win now talent of Lee/Klay or potential of Wiggins, the #1 player picked in a deep draft Bennett and future pick.

I still think warriors have better value, but Wiggins is the new shinny piece, that might make Minny jump.

[migya]

It is up to Love to chose between us and Cleveland but I think most certainly he'll chose Cleveland. Not only do they have Lebron but they are in the East, which is much weaker, and that allows for a likely deeper run in the playoffs and possible finals appearance. The only thing that is a factor, only if Love is smart enough to see it, is that Lebron could leave Cleveland again after just one year or two years, as his contract is only for two years and has an option for Lebron to leave after one year. That means a not secure and stable future for Cleveland and if Love were to go there and sign an extension, he could be in a similar situation as he is in Minnesota. That is what is the best thing going for us, that our FO has players that want to be here, want to be part of a winning team and the aim is long term by all. That could be the only thing that makes Love want to come to us, if he sees it.

[rockyBeli]

Never been on the fence about any other trade than this one I think.
Literally fine with either way this goes.
Consolation prize is still being a contender and Curry, Klay, Barnes, Green developing and growing as a team.
Risks both ways. Is Love = Bosh on the Raptors? Kind've a pretend superstar + team chemistry unknown + Curry's mindset (trading or firing everyone he knows).
I don't think it should be understated that Klay + Lee + Barnes is A LOT of proven talent -- 2 allstar level players + prospect with high ceiling. It could bite us down the road.
Wasn't there a guy named Tom Gugliotta who was kind've the Kevin Love of his day that the Warriors traded for. Do we listen to Jerry West?
Then of course if you don't do the deal, did the W's miss a chance to pair a top PG with the top PF -- both in their prime - for years to come, etc.

Ok with either way this goes. Would be cool with a Love deal but I'm not going to pretend that Lee + Klay + Barnes + 1st isn't A LOT of talent for a player not named Durant or LeBron (btw would Harden trade from Thunder get this much in return?) and doesn't carry risks down the road.

[uptempo]

Never been on the fence about any other trade than this one I think.
Literally fine with either way this goes.
Consolation prize is still being a contender and Curry, Klay, Barnes, Green developing and growing as a team.
Risks both ways. Is Love = Bosh on the Raptors? Kind've a pretend superstar + team chemistry unknown + Curry's mindset (trading or firing everyone he knows).
I don't think it should be understated that Klay + Lee + Barnes is A LOT of proven talent -- 2 allstar level players + prospect with high ceiling. It could bite us down the road.
Wasn't there a guy named Tom Gugliotta who was kind've the Kevin Love of his day that the Warriors traded for. Do we listen to Jerry West?
Then of course if you don't do the deal, did the W's miss a chance to pair a top PG with the top PF -- both in their prime - for years to come, etc.

Ok with either way this goes. Would be cool with a Love deal but I'm not going to pretend that Lee + Klay + Barnes + 1st isn't A LOT of talent for a player not named Durant or LeBron (btw would Harden trade from Thunder get this much in return?) and doesn't carry risks down the road.

Great analysis, Rock!

I was listening to Charles Barkley on "The Thundering Herd" last week as he was describing Kevin Love and one thing really stood out with what Sir Charles had to say: "Kevin Love has not come close to hitting his ceiling, and that he, Love, will only get better." It would be great if he got better while on the Warrior roster.

This Warrior team needs a big man who can both stretch the floor (in a Steve Kerr offense) as well as draw double team coverage. Love does both. Also, Love is a ferocious rebounder and makes the outlet pass better than anyone else in the league. Iggy, Currry, Livingston, Rush will thrive in a transition game offense.

[PAWNO]

Klay Thompson also just asked for the MAX.

I don't want to be locked down on a contract like that knowing Curry needs a extension soon etc.

Upgrade the PF position from Lee to Love whilst sacrificing the SG spot and lets just go from there.

[uptempo]

Klay Thompson also just asked for the MAX.

I don't want to be locked down on a contract like that knowing Curry needs a extension soon etc.

Upgrade the PF position from Lee to Love whilst sacrificing the SG spot and lets just go from there.

Strategically, your analysis makes most sense. I have to agree with you. The big problem with this deal is how the Timberwolves view Lee as a throw-in, while the Warriors view Lee as a valuable commodity (lol. Our management team is delusional. Nobody in the NBA wants Lee and his overpriced contract).

[migya]

The biggest thing is how do we replace Klay, he is a top 5 SG and won't be easy to replace what he gives us at his position. I think we'd want to get KMartin back because now looking at it, his contract won't be so bad when the salary cap rises to about 80 million next season, as is rumoured to do. 7 million a year when producing 16-17pts a game, if he did do that if he came here, is much better than some of the contracts we've already seen given so early in this offseason, let alone what will be given over the next year or so. He'd replace Klay's scoring and outside shooting, somewhat, like about 75%, and would be a trade piece over the next two years.

Love is real good but we'd be giving up two starters, two allstar type starters and would have to try to get a replacement for Klay as soon as we could and that isn't easy. A three team trade, getting us a SG that is younger than KMartin and likely to improve and gives 75% of what Klay gives, would be ideal.

[warriorsstepup]

So its because of Klays defense they won't make the trade, I know he has improved in that area and known as a good defender, but come-on now. Plus Klay will be asking for a Max contract soon.

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/07/19/report-defense-the-reason-warriors-wont-include-klay-thompson-in-trade-for-kevin-love/

The Warriors and Timberwolves got close on a deal that would have sent Kevin Love to Golden State, but the main sticking point was reportedly Minnesota’s demand that Klay Thompson be included as part of the package.

Those inside the Warriors organization were split on whether or not to give up Thompson, and on the surface, it appeared as though the team didn’t want to break up its promising young guard tandem for offensive purposes — after all, they are the greatest shooting backcourt in the history of the game.

But the real reason for keeping Thompson, according to the latest report, is that the Warriors are actually concerned about the defense.

From Sam Amick of USA Today:


The Mark Jackson firing and Steve Kerr hiring in mid-May were undeniably driven in part by the desire to improve offensively, as owner Joe Lacob and so many others within the organization grew tired of seeing their wondrous scoring talents so often struggle in the former coach’s system. But the post-Kerr question about Golden State’s third-ranked defense and what lied ahead on that end of the floor has been quietly answered during these seemingly-endless discussions about Love.

In short, they’re not willing to ditch the defense.

Their recent refusal to include guard and Timberwolves target Klay Thompson in the deal is rooted in this reality, as losing Thompson would not only leave Curry overexposed defensively in the backcourt but is compounded by the fact that Love — much like incumbent power forward David Lee, who would head to Minnesota if this deal got done — isn’t exactly known as a two-way player. From Lacob on down, this is a major part of the Warriors’ internal analysis and something that belies all the initial speculation about how this Kerr era might be defined.

Offense is easier to fix than defense, especially when the talent is already in place. With Kerr and associate head coach Alvin Gentry, who ran the top-ranked Clippers offense under Doc Rivers last season, the Warriors are likely to see a noticeable jump from last season’s effort that saw them finish the year there ranked just 12th.

The other issue that’s favorable to the Warriors where Thompson is concerned is his contract, because even though he’s likely to push for a max extension, his max deal would cost the team less than would one for Love, which would be required at the conclusion of the upcoming season.

If the brain trust in Golden State really believes that adding Love at the expense of Thompson doesn’t immediately vault the team into the realm of title contention, and that the overall drop on the defensive end would cancel out any benefits offensively, then standing pat is the way to go.

Superstars of Love’s stature aren’t made available in trade every day, however, so everybody better be on the same page in making this decision in case the Warriors keep Thompson, and end up going in the opposite of the desired direction.

[migya]

There is a valid point with the issue of defense. Klay is very good at it and at his age likely only going to get better at it, especially with Iguodala, a great defensive player for almost a decade now. Love is a great offensive player and rebounder, one of the best in the nba at both aspects but average defensively and that means the team loses one side of the ball. Klay is not Love offensively but he is one of the best sGs offensively and at his young age will only get better, at least a bit. Who knows how Love would be on the team, he could score and rebound less, with many more scorers and rebounders than the TWolves have.

The only factor that influences my decision to trade Klay and Lee for Love and KMartin is the age of Lee. Lee is some five years older than Love and though he realistically could perform the way he's performing now for three maybe four more years, Love has at least another eight to ten years of his current level left. Getting a SG to replace Klay is easier than getting a great PF because 6'5-6'7 guys are more common than 6'9-6'10 guys. Being able to replace Klay easier is what tips it in favour of making the trade for me, that is, if Love agrees to sign an extension before any trade.

[rockyBeli]

Getting a SG to replace Klay is easier than getting a great PF because 6'5-6'7 guys are more common than 6'9-6'10 guys. Being able to replace Klay easier is what tips it in favour of making the trade for me, that is, if Love agrees to sign an extension before any trade.

That's the same thing that's been naggin' at me in this deal -- which player will be more difficult to replace and which player would be more difficult to acquire in the future. Love is obviously the bigger opportunity, but to be fair to Klay, 6'7 lights-out shooters who can guard three positions will be difficult to replace if you're talking one player replacing him. Klay kinda does the work of 2 players. The Kyle Korvers and Morrow's of the NBA can't play any D and are one-dimensional. The defensive specialists can't put up 20+ a game. That's what makes Klay's game pretty unique and valuable to winning. Hence being on the fence.

Minnesota is asking A LOT. I can understand the W's reservations when factoring in a Love-less Warrior team -- which is still having a PF who can get you 18 & 10 ... and you get to keep Klay and Barnes. But the counter to that is the rarity of opportunity to pair 2 superstars in your front court and back court... ala Harden and Howard, CP3 and Blake, etc etc. It may come down to which philosophy the W's want to embrace going forward. I see the Warriors as pretty similar to the 2003-04 Pistons championship team.

Billups - Curry
R. Hamilton - Klay
Prince - Iggy
Rasheed - Lee
B. Wallace - Bogut.

They had great team chemistry, stressed defense, and didn't really have a true 'superstar' but a solid starting 5 of very good players. Question is, can the W's replicate that success with that same format? As well as banking on the growth of Curry, Klay, Green, etc to propel them to elite championship status. Alternatively, they could go the route of joining a couple superstars together, get some vets to sign cheap, and while maybe not having the best starting 5 or depth, they'd depend on big time game changing players.



If the W's lose out on Love, who should they target for big man depth? some names - Andray Blatche - Elton Brand - Charlie Villanueva - Kenyon Martin - Antawn Jamison - Al Harrington. Or do you go after a Center - insurance for the oft-injured Bogut and Ezeli.

[Beast Mode]

There is a valid point with the issue of defense. Klay is very good at it and at his age likely only going to get better at it, especially with Iguodala, a great defensive player for almost a decade now. Love is a great offensive player and rebounder, one of the best in the nba at both aspects but average defensively and that means the team loses one side of the ball. Klay is not Love offensively but he is one of the best sGs offensively and at his young age will only get better, at least a bit. Who knows how Love would be on the team, he could score and rebound less, with many more scorers and rebounders than the TWolves have.

The only factor that influences my decision to trade Klay and Lee for Love and KMartin is the age of Lee. Lee is some five years older than Love and though he realistically could perform the way he's performing now for three maybe four more years, Love has at least another eight to ten years of his current level left. Getting a SG to replace Klay is easier than getting a great PF because 6'5-6'7 guys are more common than 6'9-6'10 guys. Being able to replace Klay easier is what tips it in favour of making the trade for me, that is, if Love agrees to sign an extension before any trade.

It's easy to replace a 2 guard who is elite both offensively and defensively now???

I'm fine with keeping Klay, riding it out with Lee one more year and then trading him (valuable expiring contract) + maybe Barnes for something.

[warriorsstepup]

Cleveland will sign Wiggins sometime this week, so this means any pending trade for K-Love will have to wait for 30 days. The Cavs have acquired players with non-guarantee contract to make the trade work. So pretty much its just about time.

With Klay asking for a max, aka making more than Curry, it appears to me he won't be a bargain, and K-Love could have been had with Klays max if he gets it, plus add like 4/5 mill to it.

This season coming up all eyes are on you Klay. I love the guys skill set but the money he is asking for, and not being included in a trade for K-Love is making him over-rated now in my eyes.

Can we move past the first round with our current roster, I don't know. To our defense, our fragile Centers were both hurt.

[Ringo]

I'm surprised that the front office have baulked at trading Thompson and Lee for Love and Martin. I can understand that you don't give the T-Wolves your best offer straight away but now it looks like we've fallen behind the Cavs and the Bulls and our move has backfired.