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PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 2:51 am
J1000 wrote:
migya wrote:
J1000 wrote:
rockyBeli wrote:Klay, Barnes, Lee and a 2015 1st round pick

too much imo. Does Love + Martin get you more wins than Klay + Lee ?


This trade will likely make them weaker defensively, but offensively they'll be stronger.

It's a tough decision letting Klay go but I do think adding Love to the rest of the team does get you more wins. I don't even really factor Martin into this. I would probably rather not have Martin on my team to be honest, except maybe to bring him off the bench occasionally for some scoring punch. But he will probably give up as many points as he will score, if not more, so you have to choose your situations and match ups for when it is advantageous to have him on the floor.

On the offensive end Love can do so many different things from all over the floor. He can hit threes like Klay does, making up for some of what was lost. With his "floor-stretching", and his passing ability, the dynamic on the floor will change quite a bit. It will create a lot of open shots for his teammates. Much more so than with the current lineup in my opinion.

Defensively, they may slip somewhat, but I think the improvements offensively will more than make up for it.

There are a few different scenarios for this trade being reported. The latest I read is Lee and Thompson for Love, Martin, J.J. Berea and Minnesota's No. 1 pick (13th overall).



I don't mind having KMartin for one year, then trading him as an expirer next offseason. He can score, hit the outside shot quite well and most importantly get to the foul line, something Klay doesn't do much of, being more a shooter than anything else. In fact, that could well be a key thing if we got Love and Klay, that they both draw fouls and shoot a good number of FTs, a stat that the team was one of the least at, getting FTs. KMartin isn't much of a passer ans is a terrible defender but his offense could be valuable at times. I would be open to trading him to a third team for one or two serviceable players, even a future 1st or 2nd rounder but that's only if our FO can get at least one other player that can score enough to offset the loss of Klay's scoring some three quarters (75%, so about 14-15pts a game).

As for KMartin giving up as many points as he scores himself, not necessarily because the team plays a very good team defense that could buffer KMartin's opposing player from scoring easily. I think DGreen starting at SF and Iguodala at SG would be the best lineup most of the time, being amazing defensively, as well as at almost every other aspect of the game. KMartin is still serviceable and used well could be quite valuable.


Your team's defense is only as good as its weakest link. If Martin's teammates are helping out on his man for him, they're leaving somebody open. A good passing team like the Spurs is going to find the open man and get buckets. Even if it's not Martin's man that scores, it's his fault.

I agree he's a capable scorer, but other than that I don't see him as a winning teammate. His offense is only good in the sense that he can shoot, and he can find ways to score. But the rest of his offense is mediocre. Not a playmaker, doesn't create for his teammates, doesn't pass well, doesn't crash the offensive boards. And we know how he is on defense. He's pretty much a one dimensional player. It's true he could help in certain situations, but over the long haul I think it's likely his weaknesses outweigh his strengths.



Yet the team was third best defensively last season with weak to average defenders in Lee and Curry.

I'm alright with KMartin for one season, see exactly what he gives us, then trade him as a pretty big salary expirer to some team in need of a scorer. In fact, Charlotte is in desperate need of outside shooting so maybe trading him there for someone like GHenderson could be done immediately when the trade for Love happens.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 9:51 am
migya wrote:
J1000 wrote:
migya wrote:
J1000 wrote:
rockyBeli wrote:Klay, Barnes, Lee and a 2015 1st round pick

too much imo. Does Love + Martin get you more wins than Klay + Lee ?


This trade will likely make them weaker defensively, but offensively they'll be stronger.

It's a tough decision letting Klay go but I do think adding Love to the rest of the team does get you more wins. I don't even really factor Martin into this. I would probably rather not have Martin on my team to be honest, except maybe to bring him off the bench occasionally for some scoring punch. But he will probably give up as many points as he will score, if not more, so you have to choose your situations and match ups for when it is advantageous to have him on the floor.

On the offensive end Love can do so many different things from all over the floor. He can hit threes like Klay does, making up for some of what was lost. With his "floor-stretching", and his passing ability, the dynamic on the floor will change quite a bit. It will create a lot of open shots for his teammates. Much more so than with the current lineup in my opinion.

Defensively, they may slip somewhat, but I think the improvements offensively will more than make up for it.

There are a few different scenarios for this trade being reported. The latest I read is Lee and Thompson for Love, Martin, J.J. Berea and Minnesota's No. 1 pick (13th overall).



I don't mind having KMartin for one year, then trading him as an expirer next offseason. He can score, hit the outside shot quite well and most importantly get to the foul line, something Klay doesn't do much of, being more a shooter than anything else. In fact, that could well be a key thing if we got Love and Klay, that they both draw fouls and shoot a good number of FTs, a stat that the team was one of the least at, getting FTs. KMartin isn't much of a passer ans is a terrible defender but his offense could be valuable at times. I would be open to trading him to a third team for one or two serviceable players, even a future 1st or 2nd rounder but that's only if our FO can get at least one other player that can score enough to offset the loss of Klay's scoring some three quarters (75%, so about 14-15pts a game).

As for KMartin giving up as many points as he scores himself, not necessarily because the team plays a very good team defense that could buffer KMartin's opposing player from scoring easily. I think DGreen starting at SF and Iguodala at SG would be the best lineup most of the time, being amazing defensively, as well as at almost every other aspect of the game. KMartin is still serviceable and used well could be quite valuable.


Your team's defense is only as good as its weakest link. If Martin's teammates are helping out on his man for him, they're leaving somebody open. A good passing team like the Spurs is going to find the open man and get buckets. Even if it's not Martin's man that scores, it's his fault.

I agree he's a capable scorer, but other than that I don't see him as a winning teammate. His offense is only good in the sense that he can shoot, and he can find ways to score. But the rest of his offense is mediocre. Not a playmaker, doesn't create for his teammates, doesn't pass well, doesn't crash the offensive boards. And we know how he is on defense. He's pretty much a one dimensional player. It's true he could help in certain situations, but over the long haul I think it's likely his weaknesses outweigh his strengths.



Yet the team was third best defensively last season with weak to average defenders in Lee and Curry.

I'm alright with KMartin for one season, see exactly what he gives us, then trade him as a pretty big salary expirer to some team in need of a scorer. In fact, Charlotte is in desperate need of outside shooting so maybe trading him there for someone like GHenderson could be done immediately when the trade for Love happens.


Yes but now they are going to take a strong defender and replace him with a much weaker one, not just taking one step backward, but two, in a sense.

If they can trade him, ha, yeah, obviously, that's what I'd prefer.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 12:24 pm
Since us taking KMart looks to be to the benefit of the Wolves, and that we've apparently rejected that package, I could see us only taking him and/or JJ (who they want to offload as well) for their 13th overall. I've read that the midlevel trade exemption is out of the question if that is the package, so maybe we kick in Speights and some other fillers if needed.

At first I was happy about the possibility of getting Martin as a possible replacement for Klay, but I was also recalling the Martin of old that had showed promise and had his whole career ahead of him. Admittedly, I haven't seen him play much, but after a lot of digging, seems like he's certainly not starter material on a contending roster, and too expensive to ride the bench.

Is it a possibility to parlay Martin, the Wolves' 13th overall, and maybe another player, for a player like Arron Afflalo? I've heard the Magic desperately want a PG in the draft, and they are already flush with picks, but maybe they miss there guy? Probably not.

I dunno, I'm not very good at this type of speculation. Whatever I think will/could happen, always turns out the exact opposite.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 3:13 pm
I now agree JReed, KMartin has regressed from what he was some six years ago and is not starter material. Since he is paid what he is, he is expensive for us as a contender and should be traded in the deal for Love preferably to a third team, though I do think for one year as a backup for us it wouldn't be that bad, as after all he is an expirer in one year and much more valuable in a trade.

As for Afflalo, what I've heard, as I haven't seen him much in truth, is that he is a scorer now and not much of a defender, so perhaps not much different to KMartin. Maybe we can send KMartin to Charlotte, who apparently are in need of an outside shooter, for GHenderson, who I've read is a very good defender and improving offensive player.

I'd definitely like to get Minnesota's 13th pick, which could end up very valuable for us in the long run. I'd send Speights or JCrawford, IF we don't send our 2015 1st rounder, otherwise I think that's giving too much. Swapping with the TWolves for their #13 in this draft and our 1st rounder next draft would be alright.

I haven't looked it up much yet but want to know what SGs are out there, firstly FAs, that can score pretty well and definitely defend well, so we can get one and replace Klay somewhat at both ends more long term.

I do think starting DGreen is a real option, probably the best one, even if Barnes stays, as he has shown he is better and his defense and outside shot, among his other skills, is very important. I remember he started for a few games last season when Lee was out injured and the team performed better, Bogut even saying that that was the best lineup we had. At SF, he'd fit well and would give four outside shooters and five very good passers in the starting five, a recipe for success.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 7:42 pm
I skimmed through the post and didn't see this subject. I just looked at NBA contracts and Klay Thompson is entering his last year, 2014-15. Klay's Dad came out and said (a surrogate spokesman for his son, no doubt) Klay did not like the trade and so on, would have to pull him back from the ledge so speak and so forth. If they do this trade, isn't Minnesota giving up Love for a rental player who will walk at the end of next season or am I missing something here. I have not heard anyone talk about this.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 8:24 pm
Yes they are, just like we are with Love. Both can be out of a contract after next season, both can accept and sign a contract extension this offseason, over the next month or so even, though Love is the one most likely not to, though I think he would. Then again, Klay might want to play next season and show that he is worth the max contract.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2014 10:02 pm
migya wrote:Yes they are, just like we are with Love. Both can be out of a contract after next season, both can accept and sign a contract extension this offseason, over the next month or so even, though Love is the one most likely not to, though I think he would. Then again, Klay might want to play next season and show that he is worth the max contract.



Interesting. Correct me if I am wrong, but they better be careful about how they handle this. If I remember right, Klay was already on a plane to San Antonio when the Warriors drafted him and he had to turn around in the airport and fly to Oakland. My suspicions if the W's did this: there is a big fat contract waiting for Klay in 2015 in San Antonio and probably a few other places, but I am sure Pops would get want he wants. As to Love wanting a long term deal, it would seem he probably would be more than willing to do a sign and trade to a team he wants to go to and the possibility of a title. I can't see Thompson doing a sign and trade to Minnesota, it is not in his interest. He would get as big, if not bigger contract in SA and a really good chance at some jewelry. I can see Love doing a sign and trade deal if the right deal for him is there, but Klay, given his Dad's remarks and an expiring contract, probably would not. From what is coming out of Klay's side, Minnesota is not an option. His best option, if traded, would be to play out the year and go. With that consideration, I don't see Minnesota doing that, knowing they are in the same boat with Klay as they are with Love. They can get more elsewhere for Love.

Another interesting thing that is happening is Love's options may be thinning some also. It appears the Bulls probably have Carmelo there. The one sleeper team might be the Lakers. They have been to quiet and I don't like it when they are to quiet. Just my thoughts on this.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2014 3:30 am
blue & gold wrote:
migya wrote:Yes they are, just like we are with Love. Both can be out of a contract after next season, both can accept and sign a contract extension this offseason, over the next month or so even, though Love is the one most likely not to, though I think he would. Then again, Klay might want to play next season and show that he is worth the max contract.



Interesting. Correct me if I am wrong, but they better be careful about how they handle this. If I remember right, Klay was already on a plane to San Antonio when the Warriors drafted him and he had to turn around in the airport and fly to Oakland. My suspicions if the W's did this: there is a big fat contract waiting for Klay in 2015 in San Antonio and probably a few other places, but I am sure Pops would get want he wants. As to Love wanting a long term deal, it would seem he probably would be more than willing to do a sign and trade to a team he wants to go to and the possibility of a title. I can't see Thompson doing a sign and trade to Minnesota, it is not in his interest. He would get as big, if not bigger contract in SA and a really good chance at some jewelry. I can see Love doing a sign and trade deal if the right deal for him is there, but Klay, given his Dad's remarks and an expiring contract, probably would not. From what is coming out of Klay's side, Minnesota is not an option. His best option, if traded, would be to play out the year and go. With that consideration, I don't see Minnesota doing that, knowing they are in the same boat with Klay as they are with Love. They can get more elsewhere for Love.

Another interesting thing that is happening is Love's options may be thinning some also. It appears the Bulls probably have Carmelo there. The one sleeper team might be the Lakers. They have been to quiet and I don't like it when they are to quiet. Just my thoughts on this.



Well Klay is on his rookie contract and next season will be hid Qualifying Offer (QO), that is if he is not signed to a new contract, in other words extended and not becoming a Free Agent. If that is the case, after next season he will be a Restricted Free Agent, not an Unrestricted Free Agent and what that means is that Minnesota can match any offer any other team gives to Klay, so pretty much they'll keep him for a few years. The Spurs would love to have Klay I think but they do have Green and Kwahi who are just as good as Klay, if not better, and already know the Spurs system.

The more time that goes by, the better for us, unless Carmelo signs somewhere other than Chicago, which then could mean the Bulls would go after Love. Either way, Love likely wants to come to us and so other teams will be very weary of Love not staying with them past next season. Our chances are very good and that is why I wanted to go the firm route of not offering Klay and instead offering Lee, Barnes, JCrawford and Speights, maybe add the 2015 1st rounder. Sure, there is no other starter but Lee from us but all those other players, except Speights, would start for the TWolves after Love and KMartin came to us. Maybe even send our 2015 1st rounder and either JCrawford or Speights to some team with a pick somewhere between 12-15 this draft, if Minnesota says they like that better, and send that in the package. They seem to want Klay more than anything else, so if after a few more days of dragging this out then include him but play hard ball on taking back more than just one of their bad contracts. If they want Lee, Klay, Barnes and 2015 1st rounder, they give Love, KMartin and their #13 this draft, so likely with that they'd only ask for Lee, Klay and 2015 1st rounder, as adding Barnes instead of 2015 1st rounder means more value for them and thus giving us the #13.

Minnesota is in a bad position, as any team having to trade a superstar is and they are the ones that need to bend a bit. It doesn't appear that any other teams can trade for Love and still be contenders but we can.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2014 9:13 am
It's my understanding as Love is a free agent next year, any trade the Warriors would make for him would be a sign and trade deal. All part of the deal. Love agrees to be traded to the Warriors, and signs an extension with them at the same time. I don't think the Warriors would be willing to do it otherwise. I read that the Kings were thinking about doing this (one year rental), which I think would just be stupid, and I guess shouldn't surprise me considering how poorly managed the Kings are.

As far as Minnesota's perspective...they don't have as much leverage in their negotiation. They know he's not re-signing with them. If they don't trade him, they just get him for a year, and then they get nothing. So getting Klay and Lee for a couple years is an option they would presumably prefer.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2014 3:13 pm
I mentioned I was worried about the Lakers. Check this link:

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/ ... &utm_tags=
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2014 4:17 pm
Lakers can't do a thing. They have nothing to offer and Minnesota wants established players, not draft picks.

Minnesota getting Klay really is getting more than what they have leverage to get but since we want Love to move to true contender level, we have to give something. For me, Minnesota would have to give their #13 along with Love and KMartin for us to give a package of Klay, Lee and 2015 1st rounder, simply because KMartin is now a negative more than he is a positive and not a keeper. Lee, not just Klay, will be a keeper for Minnesota for the short term but also maybe the forseeable long term, as they have not gotten good FAs to sign there throughout their history. Lee will likely resign for maybe half of what he's making now, at least I think he would for a playoff team but with Minnesota, who needs to keep any quality they've got in order to engineer trades in the future, maybe Lee could push it and ask for a two year deal getting 10 million a year after his current contract ends. Either way, Lee is more than serviceable, I think he is a top 10 PF still and that is far from low value. Minnesota really could transition well if they use Klay and Lee properly over the next three or four years.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2014 5:22 pm
Yeah the rumors on LA getting Klay seem a bit farfetched. to me at least. i would think minnesota and warriors wouldn't allow their third party to be getting the best deal of the three
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2014 7:07 pm
Mr. Crackerz wrote:Yeah the rumors on LA getting Klay seem a bit farfetched. to me at least. i would think minnesota and warriors wouldn't allow their third party to be getting the best deal of the three



I just read an interesting piece that Cavs and Nets are likely swapping Thornton and Jack. Thornton is an expirer and maybe Cavs are looking to get into Love trade deals themselves. They could be a player in a three team trade with us and Minnesota, as maybe our FO would have Thornton as at least a one year replacement for Klay and see if he is worth keeping later.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 21, 2014 8:29 pm
Mr. Crackerz wrote:Yeah the rumors on LA getting Klay seem a bit farfetched. to me at least. i would think minnesota and warriors wouldn't allow their third party to be getting the best deal of the three



I agree with one caveat. Klay's Dad has strong ties with the Lakers and who really knows what goes on behind the scenes. I hope they don't trade him. As good as Love is, you have to keep your house together too. I understand right now that Flip is asking for the moon and seeing what he can shake loose. Next Thursday will be interesting.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2014 7:50 am
For me it comes down to, do you want 5 starters who were among the best of the league last season, where any of the 5 have been or right at the cusp of being an all star VS 4 starters, 2 stars, and maybe 1 guy that hurts you on defense or offense (Kevin Martin, etc). I want Love on the Warriors but not willing to gut the team to do so. Is a guy who is below avg. on defense and never took his team to the playoffs really worth Klay + Lee + Barnes?
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