Fire Jackson? Who'd be new Head Coach?

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PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2014 12:11 am
Sounds like SVG is really interested in the HC position here. If the FO wants to hold on a bit longer, maybe Thibs will be available and he is a very proven coach having done unbelievably well right from his first season as Chicago coach, his only HC job in the nba. Thibs could slot right in and do well, though I'm leaning towards SVG because he has more experience, but then again he is a bit firey with the players also. Either way, it's an upgrade over MJack.
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PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2014 7:12 am
I would have Thibs over SVG…. Thibs is a top 3 coach (with Doc and Pops being the other 2).

HOWEVER, i was looking at SVG stats. Did you know that SVG never had a losing record in any NBA Season. thats 7+ years of always being over .500. JVG only had 1 losing season, the rest in the positive (and he coached more seasons). Say what you want about the Van Gundys, but they can coach.
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PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2014 10:39 am
Mr. Crackerz wrote:I would have Thibs over SVG…. Thibs is a top 3 coach (with Doc and Pops being the other 2).

HOWEVER, i was looking at SVG stats. Did you know that SVG never had a losing record in any NBA Season. thats 7+ years of always being over .500. JVG only had 1 losing season, the rest in the positive (and he coached more seasons). Say what you want about the Van Gundys, but they can coach.


I like Stan and I'm good with him if he's the coach. But let's not forget those teams he coached were pretty stacked. Not taking anything away from him, but I doubt he'd have never had a losing season if he didn't have either Shaq or Dwight for 7 out of those 8 seasons. Plus Wade, and assorted other talented players that he has coached. I give him credit for pulling it all together and running a tight ship though. It takes a strong coach to get everyone on the same page when you have a lot of different personalities, egos, and styles of play. He has proven that he can find a way to get the best out of his teams, consistently.
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PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2014 8:56 pm
J1000 wrote:
Mr. Crackerz wrote:I would have Thibs over SVG…. Thibs is a top 3 coach (with Doc and Pops being the other 2).

HOWEVER, i was looking at SVG stats. Did you know that SVG never had a losing record in any NBA Season. thats 7+ years of always being over .500. JVG only had 1 losing season, the rest in the positive (and he coached more seasons). Say what you want about the Van Gundys, but they can coach.


I like Stan and I'm good with him if he's the coach. But let's not forget those teams he coached were pretty stacked. Not taking anything away from him, but I doubt he'd have never had a losing season if he didn't have either Shaq or Dwight for 7 out of those 8 seasons. Plus Wade, and assorted other talented players that he has coached. I give him credit for pulling it all together and running a tight ship though. It takes a strong coach to get everyone on the same page when you have a lot of different personalities, egos, and styles of play. He has proven that he can find a way to get the best out of his teams, consistently.



SVG didn't have loaded teams at all, he had untalented teams.

In Miami, SVG took over from Riley's 25 win mess and took the Heat to 42-40 in 2003-04, though there was a heap of injuries and they won in the 1st round. Next season Shaq arrived past his prime and look at his numbers, he was done and not what he was. Wade was only in his second season and rised to be a star, but SVG did great with that roster, taking them to a 59-23 record and to the ECF where they barely lost to the Pistons in seven, where they had that game right up until near the end. If he had not been rumoured pushed out by Riley, who seemed like the let SVG build the team up and then wanted to take over to be the one coaching them to the championship, SVG would have been the coach to lead them to the title.

In Orlando, he had Dwight, a young Dwight as well, who was still bulking up and really noone else who was allstar caliber. They had Rashad Lewis, never lived up anywhere near to the money he was paid and was an outside shooter only. Jameer had one good season, where he was allstar but was a PG that never got much assists or anything else. Turkolgu was a nice allround player but the moment he left for Phoenix that one season, he dropped to less than average, showing that SVG's system in Orlando is what made him look good. They had a past his prime Vince Carter for a season and he was just really an outside shooter. They traded VC for JRich and he did the same thing, shoot outside shots only really. They always did well in the playoffs under SVG and made it to the finals once against the Lakers.

SVG always had winning seasons and most of them over 50 games in a season, that's great. 334-179 (.651) overall for his coaching career and that's among the best there is.

He'll do well if he is chosen as the team's HC and should bring out the best of all the players here.


Here's a nice article I just read that covers the pros and cons of hiring SVG as HC:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2061050-pros-and-cons-for-golden-state-warriors-hiring-stan-van-gundy
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PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2014 11:48 pm
migya wrote:
J1000 wrote:
Mr. Crackerz wrote:I would have Thibs over SVG…. Thibs is a top 3 coach (with Doc and Pops being the other 2).

HOWEVER, i was looking at SVG stats. Did you know that SVG never had a losing record in any NBA Season. thats 7+ years of always being over .500. JVG only had 1 losing season, the rest in the positive (and he coached more seasons). Say what you want about the Van Gundys, but they can coach.


I like Stan and I'm good with him if he's the coach. But let's not forget those teams he coached were pretty stacked. Not taking anything away from him, but I doubt he'd have never had a losing season if he didn't have either Shaq or Dwight for 7 out of those 8 seasons. Plus Wade, and assorted other talented players that he has coached. I give him credit for pulling it all together and running a tight ship though. It takes a strong coach to get everyone on the same page when you have a lot of different personalities, egos, and styles of play. He has proven that he can find a way to get the best out of his teams, consistently.



SVG didn't have loaded teams at all, he had untalented teams.



A strong big man presence makes a big impact. Yeah Shaq was a little past his prime, but he was still getting 20 and 10 with a couple blocks, giving a strong inside presence 30+ minutes a game. Any team would be pleased with that. And Dwight was getting like 14 boards a game plus 20 points and 2 or 3 blocks. Basically changing the game with his presence. With guys like this, it's hard to have a losing season. No knock on Stan. I think he's a good coach.
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PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2014 12:52 am
J1000 wrote:
migya wrote:
J1000 wrote:
Mr. Crackerz wrote:I would have Thibs over SVG…. Thibs is a top 3 coach (with Doc and Pops being the other 2).

HOWEVER, i was looking at SVG stats. Did you know that SVG never had a losing record in any NBA Season. thats 7+ years of always being over .500. JVG only had 1 losing season, the rest in the positive (and he coached more seasons). Say what you want about the Van Gundys, but they can coach.


I like Stan and I'm good with him if he's the coach. But let's not forget those teams he coached were pretty stacked. Not taking anything away from him, but I doubt he'd have never had a losing season if he didn't have either Shaq or Dwight for 7 out of those 8 seasons. Plus Wade, and assorted other talented players that he has coached. I give him credit for pulling it all together and running a tight ship though. It takes a strong coach to get everyone on the same page when you have a lot of different personalities, egos, and styles of play. He has proven that he can find a way to get the best out of his teams, consistently.



SVG didn't have loaded teams at all, he had untalented teams.



A strong big man presence makes a big impact. Yeah Shaq was a little past his prime, but he was still getting 20 and 10 with a couple blocks, giving a strong inside presence 30+ minutes a game. Any team would be pleased with that. And Dwight was getting like 14 boards a game plus 20 points and 2 or 3 blocks. Basically changing the game with his presence. With guys like this, it's hard to have a losing season. No knock on Stan. I think he's a good coach.



That Miami roster had Shaq, Wade and little else. SVG made it all click. Same with Orlando, he had Dwight who was and still is limited offensively and he made it work, having others around Dwight shoot threes well. Turkoglu since then has been nothing and Dwight on a more talented Lakers didn't win as much either, nor with Houston.
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PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2014 6:41 am
great analysis mig. You look at guys like Nelson and Turkaglu, and they really were at their best when they played under SVG.

I looked it up, and SVG led a heat team to a 59-23 record with just shaq and young 23 year old wade. That teams 3rd-4th leading scorer were the jones' (eddie and damon). Haslem, Rasuel Butler, and Lattener follow (terrible lineup).

SVG was forced to resign following season, after starting 11-10. What people don't realize is that the slow start was attributed to the nearly entire new lineup for the Heat. Besides Shaq and Wade, everyone else was new. Team got Payton, Antonie Walker, James Posey, Jason "white chocolate williams, Jason Kapono, and a healthy Zo Mourning (Both Jones left, along with Butler and C.L.) . Obviously, it was to take some time to mesh.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/MIA/2005.html

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/MIA/2006.html

The Orlando team he took to the finals was much worst IMO. Team suffered through massive injuries. Top 8 players (in order from best to least) were Howard, Rashad Lewis, Turkaglu, Jameer Nelson, Rafer Alston, Courtney Lee, Pietrus, and Anthony Johnson. Team also had young JJ Redick and Martin Gortat, who both played role playing minutes.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/ORL/2009.html
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PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2014 8:26 am
It was SVG's ability to blend his players' abilities together to work as a team that makes him attractive as a HC. The team has a far better PG and backcourt than SVG has ever had. I wonder whether SVG would want Lee to get the ball more and look to score, as Lee can do that well and maybe that'll open things up more for the outside shooters. The players the team has should be able to make it a top 5 team both offensively and defensively, it's organising it to be so that is needed and that's the HC's job.
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PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2014 4:42 pm
migya wrote:It was SVG's ability to blend his players' abilities together to work as a team that makes him attractive as a HC. The team has a far better PG and backcourt than SVG has ever had. I wonder whether SVG would want Lee to get the ball more and look to score, as Lee can do that well and maybe that'll open things up more for the outside shooters. The players the team has should be able to make it a top 5 team both offensively and defensively, it's organising it to be so that is needed and that's the HC's job.



Migya, really good SVG analysis.

Unfortunately, it looks like he, SVG, finds the Detroit job to be a better job than the Golden State job.

Kerr, supposedly Lacob's lead candidate for the now vacant GSW head coaching job, also finds another team's job, the Knicks, a better job that the Warriors job.

Ric Bucher, a really knowledgeable NBA sports reporter and now a Bay Area morning radio host, states that Lacob, with his meddling during Jackson's coaching tenure, has now developed a reputation as an owner that good coaches would rather avoid.

I would like to see Lacob hire a superstar head coach (how about poaching Doc Rivers away from the Clippers?); however, it is looking like this may be a very difficult position to fill.
Last edited by uptempo on Tue May 13, 2014 6:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2014 4:49 pm
uptempo wrote:Unfortunately, it looks like he, SVG, finds the Detroit job to be better that the Golden State job.


I doubt that any coach, let alone one that is already living in the Bay area, would take the Detroit job over the Warriors job.
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PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2014 6:22 pm
Ringo wrote:
uptempo wrote:Unfortunately, it looks like he, SVG, finds the Detroit job to be better that the Golden State job.


I doubt that any coach, let alone one that is already living in the Bay area, would take the Detroit job over the Warriors job.


Under most normal conditions, your statement would be correct. However, Joe Lacob is developing a reputation of being an owner whom good coaches may want to shy away from, especially with him, Lacob, having appointed a meddling 25 year-old son as Assistant GM.

I, personally, like having an ownership group that holds its coaches and players to a demanding standard of excellence. I see this in the Lacob group. What may be difficult for this ownership group may be how it had tarnished itself with how it had put the previous coach, Mark Jackson, a coach who had just won 51 games and took the Clippers to a seven game series with his starting center out with a rib injury, in a no-win situation. The franchise is in much better shape than wihen the three idiots, Cohen-Mullin-Nelson, were running things; however, this coaching hire is crucial and may not be easy to fill.

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PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2014 6:58 pm
Ringo wrote:
uptempo wrote:Unfortunately, it looks like he, SVG, finds the Detroit job to be better that the Golden State job.


I doubt that any coach, let alone one that is already living in the Bay area, would take the Detroit job over the Warriors job.


Van Gundy, a Bay Area native who used to go to games at the Coliseum during the Rick Barry years, is now going to coach the Detroit Pistons.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/10928 ... llion-deal

Van Gundy to coach, run front office
Updated: May 13, 2014, 9:38 PM ET
By Marc Stein | ESPN.com
The Detroit Pistons have reached an agreement in principle with Stan Van Gundy to make him their new coach and president of basketball operations, according to sources with knowledge of the talks.

Sources told ESPN.com on Tuesday night that Van Gundy and the Pistons have verbally agreed to a five-year pact worth an estimated $35 million, with an official announcement on course for this week.


While it may be proven to have been the correct move in letting Mark Jackson go, this ownership group and front office need to do some self-reflection and address why its top two candidates (Kerr and Van Gundy) are not receptive to coaching here at Golden State. The team has a good roster, a great fan base, and is located in one of the most beautiful parts of the country; yet, we lose out to Detroit? Also, Kerr is a golf buddy of Joe Lacob; and yet, he, Kerr is rebuffing the Warriors for the Knicks.

A coach wins 51 games, has taken his team to the playoffs two-out-of-three seasons, and is let go. BTW, it is the ownership and FO's prerogative to fire and hire whomever they want. I am totally on board with this (not necessarily letting Mark Jackson go, but, ownership and the FO doing whatever it needs to do to improve the team).); yet, Lacob and Myers are showing us that it will be difficult to hire a coach and staff that is better than Mark Jackson and the previous staff. This is a problem that only they, Lacob and Myers, can fix.
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PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2014 3:54 am
Yup, while we were looking at the roster and saying "Look how good this line-up is, who wouldn't want to come here?" we didn't think about this issue with Lacob and his son managing the team. Lacob says the decision is Bob Myers' to make, but that is b.s. He is as much involved in these talks as anyone. And his son? WTF these guys are not basketball guys. They are businessmen.

Supposedly Stan wanted full control of basketball decisions. They wouldn't give him that but Detroit would. Plus Detroit gave him more money than the Warriors would. I can see how that would be a preferable situation, especially for somebody like Stan. He doesn't want to have to talk basketball with these guys, who are literally amateurs compared to him. To have to put someone like that on your level when you know they don't belong there - I can see how he would want to avoid that.

Not that I think it would have been a good idea to give Stan the deal Detroit did. You really have to be all in on somebody to give that kind of deal.

Not sure about the situation with Kerr. Supposedly he is friendly with all those guys. But I can see how he would respect Phil more as far as basketball goes.

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PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2014 7:18 am
J1000 wrote:Yup, while we were looking at the roster and saying "Look how good this line-up is, who wouldn't want to come here?" we didn't think about this issue with Lacob and his son managing the team. Lacob says the decision is Bob Myers' to make, but that is b.s. He is as much involved in these talks as anyone. And his son? WTF these guys are not basketball guys. They are businessmen.

Supposedly Stan wanted full control of basketball decisions. They wouldn't give him that but Detroit would. Plus Detroit gave him more money than the Warriors would. I can see how that would be a preferable situation, especially for somebody like Stan. He doesn't want to have to talk basketball with these guys, who are literally amateurs compared to him. To have to put someone like that on your level when you know they don't belong there - I can see how he would want to avoid that.

Not that I think it would have been a good idea to give Stan the deal Detroit did. You really have to be all in on somebody to give that kind of deal.

Not sure about the situation with Kerr. Supposedly he is friendly with all those guys. But I can see how he would respect Phil more as far as basketball goes.


On May 07, I had posted on another thread:
...I am very conflicted over the Mark Jackson firing.

Bruce Jenkins wrote a piece in today's Chronicle which touches on some serious issues surrounding Lacob and his "management" style:

Meddling Joe Lacob to blame for firing of Mark Jackson http://www.sfgate.com/sports/jenkins/ar ... php#page-1

Also, listening to Bucher and Towny (95.7) this morning was more than disturbing. When Golden State Warriors assistant coach Darren Erman was fired for secretly taping conversations, which is also illegal, Kirk Lacob, the owner's 25 year-old son and 'assistant general manager (http://www.forbes.com/pictures/eddf45jfjf/kirk-lacob/),' was still bringing Erman to team functions, a very cavalier and unprofessional way to put the whole organization in jeopardy of looking like it, the team and org, tacitly approved the illegal behavior. Imagine if you were Mark Jackson, one of the other assistant coaches on the staff, a player on the roster, or someone working in the Warrior organization and you see the 25 year-old, assistant gm and son of the owner, still bringing a former employee who was fired for a possible criminal offense to team functions. If anything, Mark Jackson is lucky to given his walking orders. I can see Curry, Thompson, Green, Barnes, O'Neal and Lee possibly now wanting to follow Jackson out of Golden State. What a mess! Just when the team seems to be on the verge of being a perennial playoff team/potentially someday a contender for a title, organizational dysfunction rears its ugly head. We Warrior fans may, indeed, be cursed...sigh...

What a mess...sigh...


It is now crunch-time for ownership and the front office. These guys have to make the correct hire or the negative repercussions may reverberate throughout the franchise in a way similar to how when previous ownership had sided with Nelson over Weber; when previous ownership brought Mullin into the front office; and when previous ownership and Mullin had brought back Nelson for a second tour of duty (all three moves had hurt and set back the franchise).

It is Joe Lacob and his ownership group's call on who they want to run the front office. It should be the front office (Bob Myers?) on who should be hired to coach the team. And, it should be the head coach's decision on how the team is coached. In an ideal world, this chain of command should work. The problem with our Golden State Warriors is how Lacob looks like he is usurping Myers; how Lacob's 25 year-old son is entrenched in the front office; and how a popular with-the-players coach, Mark Jackson, was let go for "not managing up," while the ownership group and front office attempted to hire as Jackson's replacement a coach, SVG, who had major issues in his past coaching career with "not managing up (Miami and Orlando)."

Now the team is supposedly bringing in Lionel Hollins for an interview as well as Nate McMillan, two candidates whom I am ambivalent about. I will be completely on board with either one being hired, as well as anyone else being hired, if the new hire is a better coach than Mark Jackson. Whoeverm the new coach is, he better win more than 51 games, get past the second round of the playoffs, and have this Warrior team playing hard defense every night; anything less than this would be an organizational failure.

Good coaches are not going to want to come into a situation where they are not going to be judged on wins and losses, but instead, are going to be judged on subjective criteria. Good coaches are not going to want to come into a situation where a 25 year-old assistant GM has oversight over the team.

Lacob and Myers need to fix this situation asap!
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PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2014 1:28 am
That's up to SVG if he wanted more power and money from a team. He has a great opportunity with a young team that has potential in Detroit but as he said, the warriors are set now and are a very attractive proposition. Will be interesting to see how the Pistons develop. SVG should be able to do wonders with Drummond, as he handled Dwight well, but he'll have to make changes immediately this offseason, likely trading either Monroe and/or JSmith for outside shooters. Wouldn't be surprised if he got Rondo in a package involving Jennings and that could be a very good trade.

For us, Kerr will have everything to prove and the fans will judge the FO harshly if it doesn't work and improvement isn't immediate.
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