Chance of W's doing something stupid

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 10:27 am
I've watched Perkins. I usually find BF's opinion repetitive but I agree. Perkins is garbitch.
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 05, 2013 10:29 am
Also, do we have any sources of his teammates citing how competitive he is in practices? Because I've watched a video with Durant saying that he's really nice when he's not in games. I'm not sure you can just flat out claim that he "DEMANDS" better play out of teammates in practices. Gotta show me.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 3:49 pm
rockyBeli wrote:Perkins now? Nope. Then? While in the midst of a title run? Hell yeah.

I guess it's just different philosophies. If a team is in win-now mode... then my thinking is they should stick to it.

When you trade away a significant piece of the team (a piece that landed you in 2 previous finals appearances mind you)...WHILE you are telling the rest of your team and the fans "hey let's try to win it all," it sends mixed messages, decreases trust in the FO, and overall hurts team chemistry.......which is exactly what happened.

Losing Perkins for nothing or seeing how FA process goes > Throwing away title run

Celtics are shi* for the next 3-5 yrs

Exactly.

Say what you want about how Perkins has declined or doesn't fit with OKC's trendy, more popular running scheme; the guy bodied up Shaq on the Heat, Bynum and Gasol on the Lakers, and Ilgauskas on the Cav's. Wanna know how to beat the Celtics now? Play them physical inside and abuse them on the glass. Prior to the trade, Perkins and Garnett fed off each other. Now, they're both trying to fit with awkward pieces that don't compliment each other. Did KG suddenly become garbage overnight? Nah; he's just struggling to assert himself now that Perkins isn't there to watch his back.

Rocky's right here. The Celtics had a core that was championship ready. Now, they don't.
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2013 9:37 pm
That Celtics team wasn't winning a championship.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 11:25 am
They DID though.

2007-'08, they won the title against the Lakers (best front court in the league)
2009-'10, they lost to the Lakers (still the best front court in the league) in the Finals
2010-'11 til present, haven't been back to the NBA Finals.

And c'mon: does NOBODY remember that Jeff Green was essentially an expiring contract due to a heart ailment that all the analysts claimed "seriously threatened his career"..? Jeff Green has recovered into a decent 6th man who can do everything decently, but nothing great... Yet he was far from a sure bet to return to Boston (if at all) and, let's be real, Perkins is still putting up better numbers then, say for instance, Andris Biedrins, who had a slew of apologists claiming he was still capable of useful minutes (including national commentators, like Reggie Miller, along with homers like Bob and Jim) as recently as last year. Size ALWAYS has value. But even then... he was easily twice the player he currently is when he played for Boston. It was a terrific fit, they enjoyed success, and they've both ebbed following the deal.

Bottom line: I believe Perkins helped Boston more than Green ever has.
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 08, 2013 12:20 pm
32 wrote:They DID though.

2007-'08, they won the title against the Lakers (best front court in the league)
2009-'10, they lost to the Lakers (still the best front court in the league) in the Finals
2010-'11 til present, haven't been back to the NBA Finals.

And c'mon: does NOBODY remember that Jeff Green was essentially an expiring contract due to a heart ailment that all the analysts claimed "seriously threatened his career"..? Jeff Green has recovered into a decent 6th man who can do everything decently, but nothing great... Yet he was far from a sure bet to return to Boston (if at all) and, let's be real, Perkins is still putting up better numbers then, say for instance, Andris Biedrins, who had a slew of apologists claiming he was still capable of useful minutes (including national commentators, like Reggie Miller, along with homers like Bob and Jim) as recently as last year. Size ALWAYS has value. But even then... he was easily twice the player he currently is when he played for Boston. It was a terrific fit, they enjoyed success, and they've both ebbed following the deal.

Bottom line: I believe Perkins helped Boston more than Green ever has.



That should tell you Perkins trade value right there to other teams then and how useful they thought he was.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 10:13 am
Blackfoot wrote:
Spoiler!




That should tell you Perkins trade value right there to other teams then and how useful they thought he was.



You refuse to look at this in context, instead of a NBA 2K14 talent A for talent B type of way. It's not about trade value, it's about what was the
best move for a team who was in win-now mode.

Basically we have a couple options

Option A -

- Keep Perkins, keep the starting 5 that got you to two straight Finals.
- Keep team chemistry and locker room unity in tact
- Embrace the win-now mentality and take the risk of losing Perkins for nothing or negotiating in FA

Option B -

- Trade Perkins to avoid losing him for nothing
- Ruin any chance at winning another title
- Ruin team chemistry
- Abandon win-now mode

If you asked a Celtics fan (or Doc Rivers)... hey would you rather potentially lose Perkins for nothing if it means having a good shot at winning a title, or would you rather be moderately good in 5-6 yrs and get no-sure-thing Jeff Green, which option do you think they'd choose? I see this move as a move Cohan would make because it's a move that was so unexpected, unnecessary, preemtive, and undecided as far as what it meant for the direction of the team.

Anyways, not a whole lot left for me to say on this topic, I guess just different philosophies on team building.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 11:00 am
32 wrote:They DID though.

2007-'08, they won the title against the Lakers (best front court in the league)
2009-'10, they lost to the Lakers (still the best front court in the league) in the Finals
2010-'11 til present, haven't been back to the NBA Finals.

And c'mon: does NOBODY remember that Jeff Green was essentially an expiring contract due to a heart ailment that all the analysts claimed "seriously threatened his career"..? Jeff Green has recovered into a decent 6th man who can do everything decently, but nothing great... Yet he was far from a sure bet to return to Boston (if at all) and, let's be real, Perkins is still putting up better numbers then, say for instance, Andris Biedrins, who had a slew of apologists claiming he was still capable of useful minutes (including national commentators, like Reggie Miller, along with homers like Bob and Jim) as recently as last year. Size ALWAYS has value. But even then... he was easily twice the player he currently is when he played for Boston. It was a terrific fit, they enjoyed success, and they've both ebbed following the deal.

Bottom line: I believe Perkins helped Boston more than Green ever has.


I would also say that Nate Robinson was also quite instrumental towards Boston's success during the Pierce-Garnett-Allen years.

At the time of the trade, I recall how the Celtics were under the impression that Big Baby, Glen Davis, was on the verge of being more-than-serviceable (also had an offensive game) and that Green would allow for Paul Pierce to log in less minutes during the regular season.

Perkins may not fit into the OKC system as well as was originally anticipated; however, it cannot be overstated that having a big man who can more-than-adequately defend the paint makes a big difference, especially in the playoffs. With Bogut, Ezeli, and O'Neal (kind of sounds like an established law firm), the Warriors are better off at the center position since the team had Nate Thurmond and George Johnson manning the middle.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 16, 2013 11:50 am
rockyBeli wrote:
Blackfoot wrote:
Spoiler!




That should tell you Perkins trade value right there to other teams then and how useful they thought he was.



You refuse to look at this in context, instead of a NBA 2K14 talent A for talent B type of way. It's not about trade value, it's about what was the
best move for a team who was in win-now mode.

Basically we have a couple options

Option A -

- Keep Perkins, keep the starting 5 that got you to two straight Finals.
- Keep team chemistry and locker room unity in tact
- Embrace the win-now mentality and take the risk of losing Perkins for nothing or negotiating in FA

Option B -

- Trade Perkins to avoid losing him for nothing
- Ruin any chance at winning another title
- Ruin team chemistry
- Abandon win-now mode

If you asked a Celtics fan (or Doc Rivers)... hey would you rather potentially lose Perkins for nothing if it means having a good shot at winning a title, or would you rather be moderately good in 5-6 yrs and get no-sure-thing Jeff Green, which option do you think they'd choose? I see this move as a move Cohan would make because it's a move that was so unexpected, unnecessary, preemtive, and undecided as far as what it meant for the direction of the team.

Anyways, not a whole lot left for me to say on this topic, I guess just different philosophies on team building.



The only thing I really need to address. No. They had no chance anyways. Statistically speaking, they had as much chance to win as I did finding three hundred dollars on the ground. What they did the two years before that has no impact on their ability to make a third final run.

And once you get past that idea it's pretty clear Green is the far superior player and has been every year since the trade.
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