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PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 1:05 am
Lol Kaepernick FAVOURITING hate messages on twitter.

Using it as motivation for this weekends game.

His team is 1 & 2. & the guy he replaced got a 3 & 0 record out in Misouri. ALEXSMITH

Maybe when he's team is 1 & 3. GO RAMS!!! after this Thursday night.

He can be sitting on his couch this Sunday & watching the Giants get taken care of Kansas City whilst his rocking his Miami Dolphins gear getting psyched for his undefeated Miami team playing the Saints!
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2013 6:10 pm
PAWNO wrote:Lol Kaepernick FAVOURITING hate messages on twitter.

Using it as motivation for this weekends game.

His team is 1 & 2. & the guy he replaced got a 3 & 0 record out in Misouri. ALEXSMITH

Maybe when he's team is 1 & 3. GO RAMS!!! after this Thursday night.

He can be sitting on his couch this Sunday & watching the Giants get taken care of Kansas City whilst his rocking his Miami Dolphins gear getting psyched for his undefeated Miami team playing the Saints!

WARNING, I didn't proof anything below...

I like how you act like you weren't riding the Kaepernick bandwagon, even as a Raider fan. There were several times when you gave props to CK, don't worry you weren't wrong then. Alex is good, Kaep will ultimately be better.

@Crackers - Perhaps Kaep is a little overrated, but the dude was hyped beyond belief in the offseason, so that reason isn't saying much.

@Guy - Well, I don't believe that Kaep's success is completely dependant on the pistol/option.

Did everyone already forget what happened week 1!?!!? Or throughout last season and in the playoffs? Everyone likes to act like he is a running QB, but in reality, he was far more effective throwing the ball last season than he was on the ground. And don't give me that BS that he was only effective throwing those deep balls because of the run game - do you know how many times we threw on play action? Hardly at all. He sure didn't get the run game going against the Packers, but it didn't stop him from having the best game of his career.

I wish I knew what the problem was, but I can assure you that it isn't all Kaep. He hasn't looked that accurate the past two games, and he would have looked worse week 1 if it wasn't for the fact that our WRs were wide open on some of those throws. I'm not worried about his accuracy though, we were all witness to the precision that Kaep is capable of last season - namely of which is the deep ball that he shattered percentages with.

I think last week was an example of a lack of preparation. I think week 2, we wrote off and excused for a number of reasons:
-Hard to run the ball when the D-line has the advantage on the snap, same with pass protection.
-We saw what losing one of the best cover corners in the league will do to an already average defensive secondary - yes, Culliver, by the numbers, is one of the top corners in the game in terms of opp catch % per snap and a number of other DB related stats.
-Losing 4 difference makers on the D-line in two years obviously hurts.
-Not having a single WR that can create any separation is obviously a problem for any team - I rewatched the game, there were a couple open short-mid range routes Kaep failed to connect on, but those guys were really bad. Also, don't give me that BS about Brady playing with sh*t WRs - yeah, let's compare Kaep with arguably the greatest QB of all-time, that's fair.
-That crowd noise is unbearable. Nobody wins in Seattle.

So maybe we thought that because everyone plays poorly there and we had all those other things to contend with, we'd just stick to our game plan and go out there against the Colts and get back on track... WRONG! Turns out, we need to make some drastic changes to our offensive gameplan. How about gore having over 60+ yard in the 1st quarter, only to be completely forgotten in the 2nd half? That is not the style of football that got us within 6 yards of winning our 6th SB. How about the absence of Vernon allowing the Colts to blitz nearly every play of the game, because they knew they could handle our sorry group of receivers in single man, while tossing a 2nd at Boldin every once in awhile? How about instilling a little discipline by Harbaugh and Co.? Seriously every time our D came up with a stop, here comes an automatic 1st down!!!

And the thing that really pisses me off is when people say that the option isn't working in SF - hey a**hole (nobody in particular), did you even watch the game(s)? How many times did we run the option? How many times did we line up in the pistol? Not very often. Yes, when we did, it didn't work, but that still doesn't support these hyperbolic-pundits' conjecture.

With all that said, I think we will be 1-3, mainly because there are too many problems to fix in a short week. Yeah, one of them is Kaep, but there is a crap-ton more issues that are completely unrelated to our QB. What was said on Twitter was disgraceful, but that's how NFL fans are, and I'm sure many of those comments were fueled by fantasy football. If anyone thinks Alex would have fared any better, then they either haven't watched the games or they don't know a thing about football.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 12:05 am
I'm still on the Kaepernick wagon buddy.

I'm just trying to kick him while his down definately. If you read my above post (quoted below) I actually talk about Kaepernicks offfield issues. #twitter #MiamiDolphins gear

I don't think your team is headed for a complete disaster but the wheels look like a 9-10 win team from the naked eye (maybe Andrew Luck is just really good)

Tough match against the RAMS, They've been the 49ers kryptonite as of late.


Lol Kaepernick FAVOURITING hate messages on twitter.

Using it as motivation for this weekends game.

His team is 1 & 2. & the guy he replaced got a 3 & 0 record out in Misouri. ALEXSMITH

Maybe when he's team is 1 & 3. GO RAMS!!! after this Thursday night.

He can be sitting on his couch this Sunday & watching the Giants get taken care of Kansas City whilst his rocking his Miami Dolphins gear getting psyched for his undefeated Miami team playing the Saints!
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 2:41 am
I don't think nobody is forgetting anything, hence why I said that they caught defenses off guard last season...he didn't play full season, mind you, if he did, defenses might have adjusted by the playoffs by then, or maybe they wouldn't have even reached the POs. We won't know, though.

Week 1 was against pathetic Packers defense, like we mentioned. You won't see a lot of games where your WRs are getting wide open, and by wide open I mean that you won't see a defender in 6ft radius of the receiver. They were torched in the POs by Kap's running, so they planned for that again, and they exposed their pathetic secondary even more.

Of course they didn't have a lot of play actions, how could they, when they are in pistol formations, shotgun, most of the time. That's also a killer for some other things, running game for RBs for instance. A lot of guys hate running out of shotgun.
The whole point was to run when Kap reads defenses and either fakes it to Gore, and then he runs, or hands it to Gore out of shotgun. Now, he is forced to throw out of pocket, because defenses caught up a bit at least, or so it seems so far. Out of all pistol/read option QBs, I'd say that Kap is the most of a runner, and least of a passer. Wilson is miles away in reading defenses, going through progressions, and generally staying in the pocket. RGIII to some extent as well, even though he is having same problems as Kap. Newton...

My point is, you need to make throws even when your WRs are not wide open. Heck, now all mention defense and injuries, but keep in mind that two years ago, when Alex took 49ers to NFC Championship game, he had Crabs as the only good WR, and that was before breakout season. So, probably worse than what they have now as options. Yet, he didn't get all of this excuses Kap is now enjoying. Alex might not take the chance and throw it downfield as much as we want, or some want, but last game, Chiefs had 3rd and 13 I believe, and he didn't check down, he threw the ball straight into Avery's numbers between 2 defenders (it was on their own 5 yard line). Like that dart he threw for the win against the Saints. And his receiving corps is nothing better than what 49ers have now, without Crabs and Manningham. He might not be flashy, but he will get it done. Kap was flashy, and had a luck to start on a good team. I disliked him mostly for his biceps kissing, now interviews where he looks like that the reporters shouldn't have the privilege to talk to him at all...those are not characteristics of good players, and HoF-ers. I can't cheer for egocentrics...but that's just me.

I'm not saying he is bad player, he is extremely athletic, I just think he is not good as advertised. And I'd probably say it's more of his head, than physicality.
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 3:28 am
There's a alarming issue with Alex Smith that I can't understand is he makes his top wide receiver look average.

Michael Crabtree didn't look like a star until Colin Kaepernick stepped on the scene & then Dwayne Bowe who's been a stud these past 2 years with names like Cassel, Orton & Quinn throwing at him suddenly becomes lifeless when Alex steps under center.

I think the big thing with Alex is he doesn't want to take risks meaning he doesn't want to take shots on the outside. He'd rather play the tight ends and screen game.s
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 3:37 am
There might be some true to that, he does like to throw it more to TEs when there is no open WR rather than try it with one on one situations. Though, I'm sure he will go more to Bowe as they get chemistry going. Also, Bowe is double covereged mostly, so Alex makes a good receiver out of Avery. :)
They just need to make opponent respect their other guys, so they could take some pressure off Bowe, after that, he will be fine.

And also, one of the media's pumping of Kap was that stat about Crabs. Crabs was on a route to get over 1000 yards in a season while Smith was throwing him the ball. It's just one of those things that they say to make one look better, and people just take it for a fact. Really no big difference in productivity he had with Smith and Kap, just a small amount of yards in favor of Kap. Far from it as being presented like he had 5 catches with Alex, and 80 with Kap. You have to check all of the things that are written in articles these days, I take nothing for granted anymore, seeing how many stuff they made up, or give to someone who has no clue about what he is writing. :)
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 2:36 am
Guybrush wrote:I don't think nobody is forgetting anything, hence why I said that they caught defenses off guard last season...he didn't play full season, mind you, if he did, defenses might have adjusted by the playoffs by then, or maybe they wouldn't have even reached the POs. We won't know, though.

Week 1 was against pathetic Packers defense, like we mentioned. You won't see a lot of games where your WRs are getting wide open, and by wide open I mean that you won't see a defender in 6ft radius of the receiver. They were torched in the POs by Kap's running, so they planned for that again, and they exposed their pathetic secondary even more.

It's not like RG3 and Andy Dalton lit the world on fire when they played the packers. Yeah, RG3 has looked bad, or at least his oline has, but Dalton has one of the better receiving groups in the league.

Guybrush wrote:Of course they didn't have a lot of play actions, how could they, when they are in pistol formations, shotgun, most of the time. That's also a killer for some other things, running game for RBs for instance. A lot of guys hate running out of shotgun.

It's certainly possible to run play action out of the shotgun, actually, most run plays from shotgun are draws - aka, play action...

Guybrush wrote:The whole point was to run when Kap reads defenses and either fakes it to Gore, and then he runs, or hands it to Gore out of shotgun. Now, he is forced to throw out of pocket, because defenses caught up a bit at least, or so it seems so far. Out of all pistol/read option QBs, I'd say that Kap is the most of a runner, and least of a passer. Wilson is miles away in reading defenses, going through progressions, and generally staying in the pocket. RGIII to some extent as well, even though he is having same problems as Kap. Newton...

You couldn't be more wrong about that bold part. Kaep is a better passer than any of those guys, in fact you can (and I am) make the case for Kaep being a better passer than Andy Dalton and Andrew Luck. I guess you're right about one thing, he is a better runner than those other QBs, if that's what you meant by, "Kap is the most of a runner..."

Guybrush wrote:My point is, you need to make throws even when your WRs are not wide open. Heck, now all mention defense and injuries, but keep in mind that two years ago, when Alex took 49ers to NFC Championship game, he had Crabs as the only good WR, and that was before breakout season. So, probably worse than what they have now as options.

I know he's not a WR, but are we saying Vernon wasn't any good? It's not like Alex was out here tossing the ball for 300+ yards and 3 tds every game. Actually, besides his TD-INT ratio (17-5), not single stat he posted that season could eve be considered anything beyond below average to average. He had the luxury of the best run game in the league and a game plan dedicated to running the ball - something we clearly went away from in the first three games of this season.

Just a side note, Crabs was better, numbers wise, when Kaep took over last season. In 8.5 games w/ Alex, 499 Yards, 4 TD. 7.5 games with Kaep, 610 Yards, 5 Tds with Kaep.

Guybrush wrote: Yet, he didn't get all of this excuses Kap is now enjoying.

Are you kidding me? First off, who is making excuses for Kaep? The only thing I've heard that even resembles an excuse is the poor WR play - is it an excuse when it's fact? Sure Kaep missed some open guys, but that was when he was under pressure because neither the Hawks or the Colts respected our WRs enough to not blitz 1-3 players nearly every down.

What I find really puzzling is your assertion that Kaep is enjoying all these excuses that Alex never did. You mean excuses for Kaep after having two bad starts versus Alex having excuses made for him over the course of 7 seasons? Comon man, you can't honestly believe that. He has had two bad starts. Two! Alex had four horrible seasons, one bad season, one below-average to average season and he was one his way to having his first decent season before being replaced by Kaep. Over the course of this time, he was given countless opportunities, and while he did endure a lot of scrutiny and abuse from the fans (like all QBs do that don't perform well, especially no. 1 picks), he enjoyed more excuses from apologists than I can recall any player, in any sport, ever.

Guybrush wrote:Alex might not take the chance and throw it downfield as much as we want, or some want, but last game, Chiefs had 3rd and 13 I believe, and he didn't check down, he threw the ball straight into Avery's numbers between 2 defenders (it was on their own 5 yard line). Like that dart he threw for the win against the Saints. And his receiving corps is nothing better than what 49ers have now, without Crabs and Manningham. He might not be flashy, but he will get it done.

So what? He made a couple throws that if they had been thrown by any other starting, vertran QB, it wouldn't be a surprise, but it would be expected. The fact that we are so shocked when he makes a good thrown downfield, should be a strong indicator that this guy is held to a different standard, a much lower standard, than other NFL QBs.

I liked Alex for what he was (in that last two seasons), a QB that wouldn't throw INTs nor lose games, but Kaep is just better in basically every way. The only edge Alex has is his experience, obviously that's going to change with time.

Guybrush wrote:Kap was flashy, and had a luck to start on a good team. I disliked him mostly for his biceps kissing,

Really? So I guess you don't like Cam because of his Superman move? Graham for his dunking, Cruz for his salsa dancing, basically any celebration - signature or not?

Not sure if you are religious or not, I'm an atheist but I'm tolerant and can appreciate religious gestures. The reason why I say this, is because his "Kaepernicking" isn't showboating, it's because he has scripture on his biceps. It's not some vein celebration.

Guybrush wrote:now interviews where he looks like that the reporters shouldn't have the privilege to talk to him at all...those are not characteristics of good players, and HoF-ers. I can't cheer for egocentrics...but that's just me.

I have no idea what you are talking about. I've likely seen more interviews of Kaep, or at least the same amount, than you have given that I live in the 9ers market and watch everything on CSNBay regarding the 9ers, and I have never seen an interview where he comes off as anything less than humble. I think you have a misconception of the guy.

BTW, there are countless egoists in the HoF - we just saw one of the biggest (Chris Carter) inducted. I can see the "well yeah, but he's a WR, QBs shouldn't..." Nah, there has been plenty HoF QBs that are egotistical, self-centered a-holes, Joe Namath, John Elway, Jim Kelly, etc.

Guybrush wrote:I'm not saying he is bad player, he is extremely athletic, I just think he is not good as advertised. And I'd probably say it's more of his head, than physicality.
Well, he was advertised as the face of the NFL, so like I said before, saying he's overrated, isn't saying much. The guy just took over the best team in the NFL midway through the season, replacing a 7 year vet in controversial move, took that team to the SB, lost the one of the craziest SBs ever after nearly bringing his team back from being down 28-6 right after half-time. Then he spends the spring/summer getting ever endorsement deal you can think of, some people claiming he could be the best QB in history, and being on the cover of every sports related publication. He then comes out week one and solidifies every piece of hype by having the best game a 9er QB has had in the past decade. So what, he has two bad games and all the sudden he's this phony, arrogant, egotistical, prima donna?

He looked pretty good Thursday, and dare I say, it was an Alex-like performance... except, that TD throw to Vernon was something Alex always had problems with - leading receivers over their shoulder. Oh and, I think he reads are just fine because that was his third read. Kaep will be fine now that Roman stopped being so cute with the game plan. We need to run the ball, plan and simple. Let the game come to Kaep, he's still a young QB, so trying to put the game on his shoulders week in and week out, when don't need to, isn't a good idea.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 2:39 am
Guybrush wrote:There might be some true to that, he does like to throw it more to TEs when there is no open WR rather than try it with one on one situations. Though, I'm sure he will go more to Bowe as they get chemistry going. Also, Bowe is double covereged mostly, so Alex makes a good receiver out of Avery. :)
They just need to make opponent respect their other guys, so they could take some pressure off Bowe, after that, he will be fine.

And also, one of the media's pumping of Kap was that stat about Crabs. Crabs was on a route to get over 1000 yards in a season while Smith was throwing him the ball. It's just one of those things that they say to make one look better, and people just take it for a fact. Really no big difference in productivity he had with Smith and Kap, just a small amount of yards in favor of Kap. Far from it as being presented like he had 5 catches with Alex, and 80 with Kap. You have to check all of the things that are written in articles these days, I take nothing for granted anymore, seeing how many stuff they made up, or give to someone who has no clue about what he is writing. :)

Actually, he wasn't on pace for 1000 yards. People should take that as a fact because it is. Crabs was better, in less time, with Kaep - just like how the offense was better.

Bowe sucks this year because he is a big-play, down-the-field WR and Alex isn't a big-play, down-the-field QB.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 8:08 am
I don't have a lot of time, and can't do quote by quote, but I'll try to reply to most of it.

1. Runs out of shotgun are usually crap, they work once in a while. That's why you have problems with running game, though. Alex used to change the plays for the run, and he did it while he was behind center, not out of shotgun. Play action out of shotgun is not as effective as play action when you can fake the run and make a pass...from shotgun it's usually expected that you are going to pass.

And really JR, I wrote "the most of a runner" and didn't check at first what I wrote, but I assumed it was obvious what I thought. Kind of a low punch to use that against me...I made a mistake though. I admit it. There. :)

2. So, I'm wrong because I think RGIII is better passer than Kap? How is that? Didn't know that it was so obvious how good of a passer Kap is. Also, better passer than Luck...really?

3. I didn't mention Davis, not because he is a TE, but because Kap had him as well, he missed just one game. Still my point stands. That's excuse when all of a sudden WR corps is not good, yet Alex was the reason to some why we lost to Giants, not a bad WR corps, that included one Brett Swain.

I didn't check how many yards in that Rams game has Alex Thrown to Crabs and how much Kap did, but it's 500 yards to around 600 yards. So 100 yards more and a TD more...yeah, that's really a huge difference. And take into consideration that in the last two games, game and half actually, Alex threw 3 TD passes to Crabs and were just starting to play better...would make some think that it has something to do with Crabs getting better during the season as well. Though, if you want a huge difference, check Davis' production with Alex and Kap.

4. Yeah, I wish I was kidding. You go to 49ers message board and you can see it for yourself. WRs, OL, Harbaugh being jackass, Roman being an idiot...you name it.

It is puzzling that you think he only had 2 bad games. Yep, he did go to the SB, but take into consideration that Alex won him some games, and that read option has taken NFL by surprise. Not that he single handedly won those games as well.

And comparing Alex's first seasons to Kap's...for real, JR? You don't see any difference in players, coaches, etc? I would love to see Kap in those teams, he would probably take Arnaz Battle and Darell Jackson to SB as well, cause that was great WR corps back then. Not to mention the HOF oline.

5. Alex is making those throws whenever it is necessary, in crucial moments, when game is on the line...showing cojones, being clutch. Remember last plays in the SB and you will appreciate that more perhaps. It's not something every QB does after all, is it? He is held in lower standard by you, and others, but there are, luckily, people who know to value things like little TOs, smart QB who knows when to switch play to run, to read defense, and who will test defense when he has to only. That's why there is all of this fighting going on between fans of those two QBs.

Saying that Kap is better in everything is laughable. That is something that is a fact. Putting it all on experience is not being realistic. Wait and see...we'll see Kap in few years, maybe he learns to use his head more, but for now, he is far beyond Alex in that regard.

Excuses are one thing, but comparing excuses Kap is having with good team, are quite not there when compared to excuses Alex got when he was playing in a awful team.

6. I don't like Cam because of that, true. Other comparisons are just not the same, those are celebrations, these are egocentric celebrations, promoting themselves. Or being all high and mighty when it's going well, and then disappear when all goes down.

And I don't care about religion at all, and getting a tattoo like that on your bicep, so you could show it off should tell you something as well. But, I guess it's all in perception and how someone perceives it.

7. It's really interesting that me being so far away know something that you, who is there like you said, haven't heard about. I guess that must mean I'm just imagining it, right? :)
Again, go to 49ers message board and you can see a lot of threads like that, also on other teams boards as well. It's not something that I projected in my head, a lot of people got that impression. No need to take it out on me.

And other egoists that are in HOF are no better than Kap. I don't know why you think I believe he is the only one I don't like for that reason. It's nothing personal, and it's completely unrelated to Alex.

Let's just agree to disagree for now, and wait to see them play out the rest of the season, and then we can talk more. I don't want this to get ugly, cause I don't like to be insulted over something trivial like this (not saying that I was), and I don't wanna insult anyone likewise.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 8:16 am
JREED wrote:
Guybrush wrote:There might be some true to that, he does like to throw it more to TEs when there is no open WR rather than try it with one on one situations. Though, I'm sure he will go more to Bowe as they get chemistry going. Also, Bowe is double covereged mostly, so Alex makes a good receiver out of Avery. :)
They just need to make opponent respect their other guys, so they could take some pressure off Bowe, after that, he will be fine.

And also, one of the media's pumping of Kap was that stat about Crabs. Crabs was on a route to get over 1000 yards in a season while Smith was throwing him the ball. It's just one of those things that they say to make one look better, and people just take it for a fact. Really no big difference in productivity he had with Smith and Kap, just a small amount of yards in favor of Kap. Far from it as being presented like he had 5 catches with Alex, and 80 with Kap. You have to check all of the things that are written in articles these days, I take nothing for granted anymore, seeing how many stuff they made up, or give to someone who has no clue about what he is writing. :)

Actually, he wasn't on pace for 1000 yards. People should take that as a fact because it is. Crabs was better, in less time, with Kaep - just like how the offense was better.

Bowe sucks this year because he is a big-play, down-the-field WR and Alex isn't a big-play, down-the-field QB.

He had 500 yards at about middle of the season, how is that not on pace for 1000 yards? Crabs was playing better every game, and I'm of a belief that he would get better with Alex as well.

Offense was a bit better in scoring though, and quite worse in defense. Doom and gloom does that, you either score fast, or you get a lot of 3 and outs. Kap is still having problems with three and outs.

Take into account that defense was playing better because they were less on the field and that Alex's offense in return had better field positions, and you would understand that he couldn't pass for huge amount of yards, even if he wanted to be a gunslinger. There are good and bad things that go with both styles of play, TOP is one that is being neglected in Alex's case, and that's why everyone think that defense is bad all of a sudden.

The jury is still out on Bowe and Alex, though. They played just 3 games together, with a new coach and in a new system. Maybe if Reid could make conclusions as fast as you do, he could get rid of Bowe, eh? ::razz: Just kidding. :)
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 1:03 pm
Guybrush wrote:
JREED wrote:
Guybrush wrote:There might be some true to that, he does like to throw it more to TEs when there is no open WR rather than try it with one on one situations. Though, I'm sure he will go more to Bowe as they get chemistry going. Also, Bowe is double covereged mostly, so Alex makes a good receiver out of Avery. :)
They just need to make opponent respect their other guys, so they could take some pressure off Bowe, after that, he will be fine.

And also, one of the media's pumping of Kap was that stat about Crabs. Crabs was on a route to get over 1000 yards in a season while Smith was throwing him the ball. It's just one of those things that they say to make one look better, and people just take it for a fact. Really no big difference in productivity he had with Smith and Kap, just a small amount of yards in favor of Kap. Far from it as being presented like he had 5 catches with Alex, and 80 with Kap. You have to check all of the things that are written in articles these days, I take nothing for granted anymore, seeing how many stuff they made up, or give to someone who has no clue about what he is writing. :)

Actually, he wasn't on pace for 1000 yards. People should take that as a fact because it is. Crabs was better, in less time, with Kaep - just like how the offense was better.

Bowe sucks this year because he is a big-play, down-the-field WR and Alex isn't a big-play, down-the-field QB.

He had 500 yards at about middle of the season, how is that not on pace for 1000 yards? Crabs was playing better every game, and I'm of a belief that he would get better with Alex as well.

Because it was passed the middle of the season. He was more like on pace for 900 yards. I understand we're splitting hairs here and we aren't talking about much of a difference, but those are the facts - you can't argue that Crabs wasn't better with Kaep, that's just not true.

Guybrush wrote:Offense was a bit better in scoring though, and quite worse in defense. Doom and gloom does that, you either score fast, or you get a lot of 3 and outs. Kap is still having problems with three and outs.

So that's why the ToP and 3rd down conversion % were better with Kaep as QB?

Guybrush wrote:Take into account that defense was playing better because they were less on the field and that Alex's offense in return had better field positions, and you would understand that he couldn't pass for huge amount of yards, even if he wanted to be a gunslinger. There are good and bad things that go with both styles of play, TOP is one that is being neglected in Alex's case, and that's why everyone think that defense is bad all of a sudden.
You say one thing, but the numbers say something completely different.

Guybrush wrote:The jury is still out on Bowe and Alex, though. They played just 3 games together, with a new coach and in a new system. Maybe if Reid could make conclusions as fast as you do, he could get rid of Bowe, eh? ::razz: Just kidding. :)
I never though Bowe was that great of a WR anyways. He's a one trick pony.
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 2:10 pm
Guybrush wrote:I don't have a lot of time, and can't do quote by quote, but I'll try to reply to most of it.

1. Runs out of shotgun are usually crap, they work once in a while. That's why you have problems with running game, though. Alex used to change the plays for the run, and he did it while he was behind center, not out of shotgun. Play action out of shotgun is not as effective as play action when you can fake the run and make a pass...from shotgun it's usually expected that you are going to pass.

And really JR, I wrote "the most of a runner" and didn't check at first what I wrote, but I assumed it was obvious what I thought. Kind of a low punch to use that against me...I made a mistake though. I admit it. There. :)

2. So, I'm wrong because I think RGIII is better passer than Kap? How is that? Didn't know that it was so obvious how good of a passer Kap is. Also, better passer than Luck...really?

3. I didn't mention Davis, not because he is a TE, but because Kap had him as well, he missed just one game. Still my point stands. That's excuse when all of a sudden WR corps is not good, yet Alex was the reason to some why we lost to Giants, not a bad WR corps, that included one Brett Swain.

I didn't check how many yards in that Rams game has Alex Thrown to Crabs and how much Kap did, but it's 500 yards to around 600 yards. So 100 yards more and a TD more...yeah, that's really a huge difference. And take into consideration that in the last two games, game and half actually, Alex threw 3 TD passes to Crabs and were just starting to play better...would make some think that it has something to do with Crabs getting better during the season as well. Though, if you want a huge difference, check Davis' production with Alex and Kap.

4. Yeah, I wish I was kidding. You go to 49ers message board and you can see it for yourself. WRs, OL, Harbaugh being jackass, Roman being an idiot...you name it.

It is puzzling that you think he only had 2 bad games. Yep, he did go to the SB, but take into consideration that Alex won him some games, and that read option has taken NFL by surprise. Not that he single handedly won those games as well.

And comparing Alex's first seasons to Kap's...for real, JR? You don't see any difference in players, coaches, etc? I would love to see Kap in those teams, he would probably take Arnaz Battle and Darell Jackson to SB as well, cause that was great WR corps back then. Not to mention the HOF oline.

5. Alex is making those throws whenever it is necessary, in crucial moments, when game is on the line...showing cojones, being clutch. Remember last plays in the SB and you will appreciate that more perhaps. It's not something every QB does after all, is it? He is held in lower standard by you, and others, but there are, luckily, people who know to value things like little TOs, smart QB who knows when to switch play to run, to read defense, and who will test defense when he has to only. That's why there is all of this fighting going on between fans of those two QBs.

Saying that Kap is better in everything is laughable. That is something that is a fact. Putting it all on experience is not being realistic. Wait and see...we'll see Kap in few years, maybe he learns to use his head more, but for now, he is far beyond Alex in that regard.

Excuses are one thing, but comparing excuses Kap is having with good team, are quite not there when compared to excuses Alex got when he was playing in a awful team.

6. I don't like Cam because of that, true. Other comparisons are just not the same, those are celebrations, these are egocentric celebrations, promoting themselves. Or being all high and mighty when it's going well, and then disappear when all goes down.

And I don't care about religion at all, and getting a tattoo like that on your bicep, so you could show it off should tell you something as well. But, I guess it's all in perception and how someone perceives it.

7. It's really interesting that me being so far away know something that you, who is there like you said, haven't heard about. I guess that must mean I'm just imagining it, right? :)
Again, go to 49ers message board and you can see a lot of threads like that, also on other teams boards as well. It's not something that I projected in my head, a lot of people got that impression. No need to take it out on me.

And other egoists that are in HOF are no better than Kap. I don't know why you think I believe he is the only one I don't like for that reason. It's nothing personal, and it's completely unrelated to Alex.

Let's just agree to disagree for now, and wait to see them play out the rest of the season, and then we can talk more. I don't want this to get ugly, cause I don't like to be insulted over something trivial like this (not saying that I was), and I don't wanna insult anyone likewise.

1. Still doesn't make what I said any less true, it's not Kaep's fault the play calling went to hell in the first three games.

2. RG3 actaully had a decent year and he is the only QB that I mentioned that you could make a case he was a better passer, although it doesn't look like that's the case this season. Yes, Kaep committed far fewer mistakes and TOs than Luck and if Kaep would have been given a full year, his numbers in terms of yards and Tds would have been comparable. Kaep had a better QB rate and QBR. He is the better passer.

3. You're right about Alex having better chemistry with VD, but that doesn't look like the case anymore. If I'm right about that last part, it took Kaep less time.

4. More Alex excuses. Yeah Kaep has a better situation early in his career, but that doesn't negate the fact that Kaep has been the better QB in this regime than Alex, which is a fair comparison.

I didn't really compare their first seasons, I compared their bodies of work.

5. There isn't much "fighting" going on between fans over these QBs. I read the webzone too. You're the only person that I've seen continue to make a case for Alex over Kaep.

You mean that perfect throw by Kaep in which 1) Crabtree cut in too far on the CB and didn't get his head around for the pass? 2) Where Crabtree was held with both hands and was still only about 1.5 steps away from the pass?

Wait and see...we'll see Kap in few years, maybe he learns to use his head more, but for now, he is far beyond Alex in that regard.
I know what you're trying to say here, but the way it came out is fine and true :mrgreen:

Excuses are one thing, but comparing excuses Kap is having with good team, are quite not there when compared to excuses Alex got when he was playing in a awful team.
That is an excuse in favor of Alex. Look man, I don't know if you watch those games, but I haven't missed a single Alex Smith start until this season, and it wasn't just due to him being on bad teams. Alex was bad. BAD. HORRIBLE. He is not smarter than Kaep (Kaep scored higher on the wonderlic and set records across the board in sports science - take those for what they are), his reading ability is due to his experience - I can say that because Alex at this point in his career was staring down WRs like fat kid in a candy shop, did nothing but dump the ball off (still does), held on to the ball too long, and and acted like defenders were wearing the predator invisible armor - either that or 9er jerseys.

6. Maybe in Cam's case, but not Kaep. You are wrong, plain and simple. You just don't like the guy and are fishing for anything you can to justify your hatred. There is a real, justifiable reason for his celebration move. The guy is not "egocentric", this is just conjecture.

Yes, it apparently is a matter of perception, or maybe cultural? I'm not a fan of tattoos, but in this country, it's akin to being racist to judge someone for their tattoos.

7. I don't understand what you're trying to say here. You don't know something I don't regarding Kaep's demeanor. Actually, neither one of us know anything about the guy personally and we are both grossly under-qualified to make any assertions about his personality. The difference is, you're claiming to know that he is an arrogant egoist, while I'm saying that I haven't seen or heard anything to suggest that he is.

So if all your friends jumped off a bridge, you would too? First off, I haven't seen any 9er fans call him out for being egotistical, and who cares what other fans feel? Most of America (well kind of... allegedly) voted to elect George Bush twice - does that make the majority correct? People think Cam Newton is a TO machine, but he isn't. Public perception is a lot of things, but automatically correct, it is not.

Also, using public opinion doesn't work in your favor for the rest of your arguments. By and large, people agree that Kaep is far better than Alex.

I also feel like you've been hinting at Alex being less mistake prone than Kaep, which last season, was not the case. Kaep throw less INTs and had a better TD:INT ratio - that was in that same amount of pass attempts. Yeah not really playing out like that this season, I could offer some reasons (or what you'd call excuses), but I'll just let the season play out and we can compare the seasons once things have leveled out a bit.

Right, it's a debate, I'm not getting offended and what is said here is exclusive to this discussion. Look man, it's obvious that you believe what you want to believe regardless of the stats and reality say. This is odd, because normally you're one of the most level headed posters on here. I'm not trying to insult you, but when it comes to this particular topic, you're just refusing to acknowledge the facts. Almost every time you've stated something as a statistical fact, I've been able to confirm that it isn't. It feels like you just don't like Kaep, and there is nothing wrong with that, but trying to rationalize it with facts that aren't there.

You wanna do a sig bet?
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 3:02 pm
4. So, you say my stats are not correct, and yet, when it comes to stats, Alex is better QB than Kap when it comes to QB rating. In this regime. :) So, again, I'm not saying anything is black and white, I'm just saying that Kap is not good as advertised, and that Alex is not bad as it is said around here. That automatically makes me hating it seems. I don't like Kap, but I don't hate him.

5. Webzone is not the only one, and I don't go there. 49ers official message board is more massive, and there are more opinions than one on Webzone, so you can find all of this there.
And again that holding...you can't hang all of the game on a one play (questionable call as well).

I watched all of his games, and still watch them. All that were 49ers known for when he played, now are the traits of Chiefs. Strong D that doesn't have to spend a lot of time on the field, good scoring percentage in the red zone good field positions (less yards for passing though), and mistake free game.

Hmm, my stats are problem again, yet somehow Alex's 40 on Wonderlic is lower than Kap's 37. :)
And of course he was horrible, I don't understand what you expect of a guy who his 0.5 second to throw the football. I guess if he ALL of that time spent "staring" at one target he really didn't go through his progressions. ::razz:
Or maybe that time he had to play under injections when he had 3rd degree shoulder separation on his right arm? All of are excuses, right? You would expect good numbers out of Kap in those situations? How quickly we forget...what about OCs? It was like yesterday when Jimmy Raye was calling something that should have been NFL plays. He's not the only one, sadly.

6. I'm not fishing for anything. Putting that tattoo there, and then flexing muscle before he kisses it is nothing that says humble. I'm sure churches don't actually encourage people to quote bible like that and promote it in that fashion. Check Peyton and Eli, Montana and Young before...nobody did those kind of things, they were class act. This is not, no matter how you put it.
I don't claim he is something for sure, here I thought it is obvious that we are stating our opinions. That's not something stats can prove.

What cultural thing? Here 90+ percent people are Christian. Don't know what is a big deal about tattoos. Alex has it as well. Don't pin it on that, it's nothing with tattoos as an art, it's about where they are and how he acts with it. Complete showoff, along with those magazines where he is posing showing them. Again, that isn't being humble, quite the contrary. Even though I'm an atheist and don't care about it in terms of religion.

7. You said that you didn't read something like that, and you are there, and I'm on another continent. Meaning probably that you should know more, I don't know. I never said I know something, I just said that people are perceiving that like that as well, it's not just one way, as fans of Kap paint it to be. Never claimed I know Kap. Just saying that he comes across that way to some people, and you are telling me it's plain wrong. How so? If that's how they see him, he did/said something that would make them believe that about him. No matter how much people hated Alex as a player, no one will ever say one bad thing about his as a person and as a teammate. So, again, it's not a claim, it's just how you behave on the field, and during interviews, and how that what you do or say will be received by people.

What is that even supposed to mean? My friends jump off the bridge...what here did I say that is being done by all? It's actually Kap that is being NFL's Golden boy, and everyone is saying what they see there and that's what they believe. I was just saying that I'm not the only one who thinks that, which is something you are trying to say, that I'm the only guy who is advocating for Alex, which plain and simple isn't true.

Again, public opinion goes in favor of Kap, that's why all of this started, by me saying he is hyped and overrated. :) So, don't know what you are trying to say about me, and masses and stuff, when I'm, obviously, in minority here (and everywhere else mostly, lol).

Alex is a less mistake prone, you are just not counting fumbles. :) And you are not taking that half game more Alex played as you did when it came to Crabs production. Give it to Kap, and he might throw few more INTs, eh? ::razz:

I don't know what stats, really. :) I never said Alex is leagues better, I'm debating here against insane statements like "Kap is better in all segments of the game". I can't find now that TOP thing, but I remember I read it like I said it. QB rating is in Alex's favor, heck he was at the top of the league when he got benched. And I said that Kap is more athletic, and has bigger arm, hence he is likely to get more big plays. But, you can't convince me that he is more accurate and that he can lead offense with small and medium passes like Alex can. And defense reading, progressions, change of plays, all goes in Alex's favor.

Just don't try to make me look like I'm saying things that I'm not. I've given you quite a few facts that are going in Alex's favor, yet, they are being ignored. And it's not all in stats. Alex is 4-0, he is doing what he did once he got a decent team, winning. His way, but he is doing it. On the other hand, 49ers for the first time without Alex at the start of the season, are having some difficulties. Can't tell me that Alex wasn't helping this team out in other ways, it's not all in big arm and sub 4.5 time.

Keep in mind that this pretty much same KC team, on D, last year, had 2 times less wins than they do now. Offense is the part that is changed the most, and it is still in the learning process.

And, just so I don't forget, is the stat that says that Gore had a huge drop off in runs after Kap took over also one of those that I made up? :)

What do you propose? :)
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2013 3:10 am
You guys gonna get a win over the Seahawks?

Looks like the NFC is going through Sleepless Seattle this January.

Hoping for some snow games this playoffs.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2013 11:26 am
Snow games are the best...love that ish.
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