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PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2013 4:53 pm
uhhh... Miami?
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PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2013 4:56 pm
8th ave wrote:uhhh... Miami?


Its already been mentioned that Lebron is a code so that does not count. He really can play 1-4. Hibbert/West. Duncan/Splitter, Randolph/Gasol, Bosh/Lebron/Haslem.

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PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2013 5:22 pm
warriorsstepup wrote:No team playing small ball is in the playoff right now, that should be enough data.

Last year 3 of 4 teams were playing small ball in the playoffs.

Centers were Turiaf/Haslem, Perkins, whoever the **** the celtics had at center, and duncan.

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PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2013 6:02 pm
Blackfoot wrote:
warriorsstepup wrote:No team playing small ball is in the playoff right now, that should be enough data.

Last year 3 of 4 teams were playing small ball in the playoffs.

Centers were Turiaf/Haslem, Perkins, whoever the **** the celtics had at center, and duncan.


I already provided data concerning past finals MVPs, no need for me to go further. Small ball works in spurts, winning teams as of now and recent history have won because a combo of issues, the major one being excellent post players.

Now in the future, yes SF will probably start dominating the NBA scale as they are now and moving further in the playoffs, but at what levels am not sure. Players such as Durant, Melo, Paul George, will find success winning/scoring as the traditional post players are going more finesse, not as much skilled post play as before, but for teams that still meet the criteria they will continue to be the trend as far as being successful in the playoffs.

Like it was mentioned before people need to stop using Lebron as an example as if he is a small foward, dude is a tank that could possibly play all five position.

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PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2013 6:07 pm
Why not use him as an example, though? Just because he is really good? Part of his ability to be the GOAT is because he is a small forward that can play every position and guard every position. This is potentially why Durant is going to be the GOAT. This is why Melo is good.

Not only are they scoring machines but they can play any position and teams are moving towards positionless basketball more and more each year because if you have a player that makes it work, it works. Even more than just small spurts.

Ultimately it comes down to the team and their own personnel though. Thunder and Heat should absolutely play small. Spurs can play either way, Grizzlies absolutely need to play big. We can play either.
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PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2013 7:51 pm
warriorsstepup wrote:
8th ave wrote:uhhh... Miami?


Its already been mentioned that Lebron is a code so that does not count. He really can play 1-4. Hibbert/West. Duncan/Splitter, Randolph/Gasol, Bosh/Lebron/Haslem.


ohhhh... excuse me, i didn't know you were making the rules.
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PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2013 9:00 pm
8th ave wrote:
warriorsstepup wrote:
8th ave wrote:uhhh... Miami?


Its already been mentioned that Lebron is a code so that does not count. He really can play 1-4. Hibbert/West. Duncan/Splitter, Randolph/Gasol, Bosh/Lebron/Haslem.


ohhhh... excuse me, i didn't know you were making the rules.



Well the dude weighs 250, there are no rules being made here. The main point I was trying to make was about post players really being vital in going deep in the playoffs, its just the truth, I don't think it is much of a debate, just saying.
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PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 1:50 pm
Blackfoot wrote:Why not use him as an example, though? Just because he is really good? Part of his ability to be the GOAT is because he is a small forward that can play every position and guard every position. This is potentially why Durant is going to be the GOAT. This is why Melo is good.

Not only are they scoring machines but they can play any position and teams are moving towards positionless basketball more and more each year because if you have a player that makes it work, it works. Even more than just small spurts.

Ultimately it comes down to the team and their own personnel though. Thunder and Heat should absolutely play small. Spurs can play either way, Grizzlies absolutely need to play big. We can play either.

You just detailed why you can't use LeBron as a rule of thumb in an argument. Because he's not a small forward. He could just as easily be a power forward or a point guard or a scoring guard. He's even big enough to play most modern centers. The reason LeBron proves nothing about the effectiveness of the small forward position is because he does not accurately represent it. If you want to make blanket statements about the SF position, you'd have to use a guy like Paul Pierce who embodies it. Durant is 6'10" and both Melo and LBJ have the width to play PF. LeBron is a typical SF like Magic was a typical PG.

Again, it's why the small ball thing makes no sense. The Heat DON'T PLAY small ball; they have a 250 pounder at the 4 and either Bosh, Joel Anthony, Birdman, or Haslem at the 5. ANY team LeBron is on could "play small ball" with him at the 4. Too bad there's nothing small about him.
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PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 2:26 pm
Well SF's typically can play any position, Lebron just does it the best.

Carmelo plays PF sometimes as does Kevin Durant.
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PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 2:33 pm
32 wrote:Too bad there's nothing small about him.


We didn't need all the details, but I hope you had fun at least. :mrgreen:

On a serious note, I agree with all else you said. Small ball means that you are playing, for example, a guy who is quite a bit shorter than usual PFs, at PF. And, essentially, LeBron is not shorter, or lacking weight as well. Durant is having a typical height for a PF, so it's not like the Thunder are playing small ball with him at 4.

It's just a skill set of those two that makes them valuable at other positions as well...good ball control, shoot, dribbling...etc. That's why they are best, because they have the whole package.
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PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 3:12 pm
Blackfoot wrote:Well SF's typically can play any position, Lebron just does it the best.

Carmelo plays PF sometimes as does Kevin Durant.

I think SF's have the skills needed for most positions, because the position calls for versatility, but being able to play any position is something only LeBron can do. Certain guys can play 4 positions (like Iggy, who can play 1-4, or Durant, who can play 2-5), but most SF's usually hover between SG, PF, and their normal spot.

To say SF's "typically" can play most positions takes away from LeBron's greatness. No other player in the league can play 1-5 like LeBron.
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PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 3:52 pm
32 wrote:
Blackfoot wrote:Well SF's typically can play any position, Lebron just does it the best.

Carmelo plays PF sometimes as does Kevin Durant.

I think SF's have the skills needed for most positions, because the position calls for versatility, but being able to play any position is something only LeBron can do. Certain guys can play 4 positions (like Iggy, who can play 1-4, or Durant, who can play 2-5), but most SF's usually hover between SG, PF, and their normal spot.

To say SF's "typically" can play most positions takes away from LeBron's greatness. No other player in the league can play 1-5 like LeBron.



To be fair, no one can really do anything like Lebron. Only Kevin is better at something, and that's scoring. But even then, once you factor in passing/turnovers Lebron had the better offensive season.

But SF's are versatile and that's why they are so important.
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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 7:59 am
SF's are probably the most rounded overall basketball players, true.

But aren't centers much rarer? Isn't it true that teams can acquire a good SF 10 times over before they land a quality 7-footer?
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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 12:40 pm
I would say there are more good centers right now than SF's.

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PostPosted: Mon May 27, 2013 1:39 pm
32 wrote:
Blackfoot wrote:Why not use him as an example, though? Just because he is really good? Part of his ability to be the GOAT is because he is a small forward that can play every position and guard every position. This is potentially why Durant is going to be the GOAT. This is why Melo is good.

Not only are they scoring machines but they can play any position and teams are moving towards positionless basketball more and more each year because if you have a player that makes it work, it works. Even more than just small spurts.

Ultimately it comes down to the team and their own personnel though. Thunder and Heat should absolutely play small. Spurs can play either way, Grizzlies absolutely need to play big. We can play either.

You just detailed why you can't use LeBron as a rule of thumb in an argument. Because he's not a small forward. He could just as easily be a power forward or a point guard or a scoring guard. He's even big enough to play most modern centers. The reason LeBron proves nothing about the effectiveness of the small forward position is because he does not accurately represent it. If you want to make blanket statements about the SF position, you'd have to use a guy like Paul Pierce who embodies it. Durant is 6'10" and both Melo and LBJ have the width to play PF. LeBron is a typical SF like Magic was a typical PG.

Again, it's why the small ball thing makes no sense. The Heat DON'T PLAY small ball; they have a 250 pounder at the 4 and either Bosh, Joel Anthony, Birdman, or Haslem at the 5. ANY team LeBron is on could "play small ball" with him at the 4. Too bad there's nothing small about him.


Plus 1, exactly that strength was on display against the Pacers. That is all the NBA world is talking about Lebron in the post against Paul George, while George is 6'9 he only weighs 215, Bron man handled dude.
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