Jarrett Jack wants to come back.

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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 11:48 am
Jack has had his moments and times where he's been bad. My concern isn't whether he's a good player, but is he worth $6-7M a year to this team for 3-5 years? He's making $5.5M and could be looking for a raise. Is he worth this team paying the luxury tax because if they pay him $6M a year, then it will put them nearly $10M over that threshold. If they feel that Jack is the kind of player they need on the bench, then 6'0-6'3 combo guards that can score are a dime a dozen, and probably wouldn't cost them $6M a year or ever $3M.

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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 1:31 pm
I know, I wasn't commenting on you, I was just commenting on fans I see on twitter saying "trade jack for nate." People like that.
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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 6:13 pm
Go look at MTII, Rusty Simmons, and Mat Steinmetz' twitter. These fools don't know wtf they're talking about. If these idiots watched a quarter of the games this season they'd know, unfortunately they only tuned in for the playoffs. That's a pretty bad assumption on my part, but I just don't see how you can bag on him if you watched him play all season.
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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 10:03 pm
8th ave wrote:Go look at MTII, Rusty Simmons, and Mat Steinmetz' twitter. These fools don't know wtf they're talking about. If these idiots watched a quarter of the games this season they'd know, unfortunately they only tuned in for the playoffs. That's a pretty bad assumption on my part, but I just don't see how you can bag on him if you watched him play all season.


Reactionary and sensationalist journalist.
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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 10:17 pm
Blackfoot wrote:
8th ave wrote:Go look at MTII, Rusty Simmons, and Mat Steinmetz' twitter. These fools don't know wtf they're talking about. If these idiots watched a quarter of the games this season they'd know, unfortunately they only tuned in for the playoffs. That's a pretty bad assumption on my part, but I just don't see how you can bag on him if you watched him play all season.


Reactionary and sensationalist journalist.


They're the ones defending Jack. It's their followers that are criticizing Jack.
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PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 10:52 pm
8th ave wrote:
Blackfoot wrote:
8th ave wrote:Go look at MTII, Rusty Simmons, and Mat Steinmetz' twitter. These fools don't know wtf they're talking about. If these idiots watched a quarter of the games this season they'd know, unfortunately they only tuned in for the playoffs. That's a pretty bad assumption on my part, but I just don't see how you can bag on him if you watched him play all season.


Reactionary and sensationalist journalist.


They're the ones defending Jack. It's their followers that are criticizing Jack.

Well, just reactionary then.
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PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 9:07 am
Jarrett Jack is not a perfect basketball player. He is not without faults. It is revisionist history to try and discredit those of us who weren't happy with his game 3 after he went off in game 4. We weren't criticizing him for no reason. You take the good with the bad with Jack. When he's on, he's a catalyst; a 3rd scorer, an offensive playmaker, gets to the line, plays great D. When he's off, he gets shot-happy, inefficient, rushes shots, throws the ball away, and wastes 20 seconds of the shot-clock in an isolation dribble.

The real question is: why were those who were critical of Monta Ellis so fond of Jack? Was it literally just the contract? Because they do similar things when they have good and bad nights.

I've said it all year: I don't trust Jarrett Jack.

I know he's had a career year. I know he gets hot. I know he's a great player to have on the bench. The reason I don't trust him is because he fancies himself as the 3rd scorer, behind Steph and Klay. I'd prefer to see Jack playmaker more instead of constantly looking for his own offense. Get Barnes and Landry involved more. Even when Lee was healthy, Jack wanted the 3rd most shots.

I don't trust him. I want him to tone down his shot attempts and take better care of possessions. If he does that, he's the 6MotY. I don't want a Jason Terry or a Jamal Crawford; I want an Andre Miller.
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PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 9:18 am
Jarrett Jack definitely has his faults. He has helped this team win a few games, but he's also helped them lose a few as well. And maybe, to an extent, its Mark Jackson's fault as well by trusting Jack more than he should. Jack isn't a part of the future of this team. He's already made it clear that he wants to be a free agent, so he's making this playoff series a audition for other teams. So why put the game in the hands of this guy? They get one shot to win the game in regulation and they let Jack go one-on-one to win the game? I know Curry was hurt, but I'd much rather see a guy a guy like Harrison Barnes, Draymond Green, Klay Thompson or a one-legged Curry taking that shot.

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PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 1:19 pm
32 wrote:Jarrett Jack is not a perfect basketball player. He is not without faults. It is revisionist history to try and discredit those of us who weren't happy with his game 3 after he went off in game 4. We weren't criticizing him for no reason. You take the good with the bad with Jack. When he's on, he's a catalyst; a 3rd scorer, an offensive playmaker, gets to the line, plays great D. When he's off, he gets shot-happy, inefficient, rushes shots, throws the ball away, and wastes 20 seconds of the shot-clock in an isolation dribble.

The real question is: why were those who were critical of Monta Ellis so fond of Jack? Was it literally just the contract? Because they do similar things when they have good and bad nights.

I've said it all year: I don't trust Jarrett Jack.

I know he's had a career year. I know he gets hot. I know he's a great player to have on the bench. The reason I don't trust him is because he fancies himself as the 3rd scorer, behind Steph and Klay. I'd prefer to see Jack playmaker more instead of constantly looking for his own offense. Get Barnes and Landry involved more. Even when Lee was healthy, Jack wanted the 3rd most shots.

I don't trust him. I want him to tone down his shot attempts and take better care of possessions. If he does that, he's the 6MotY. I don't want a Jason Terry or a Jamal Crawford; I want an Andre Miller.


Jack is way more efficient and plays defense. Jack > Monta.

I agree it can be frustrating to see Jack play the way he plays, but it is indeed beneficial.
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PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 3:56 pm
According to player efficiency, Monta > Jack.

We will not agree here though. Unless I'm mistaken, Ellis is located squarely atop your sh*t list. And I've already admitted, Jack makes me a LOT more nervous than anyone else on this team.
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PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 4:26 pm
PER is a great quick snap. But it directly favors high possession guys and volume scorers. If you ignore all the high possession, high volume inefficient scorers, it would be a better metric.

However it doesn't.

A quote from Dave Berri

""Hollinger argues that each two point field goal made is worth about 1.65 points. A three point field goal made is worth 2.65 points. A missed field goal, though, costs a team 0.72 points. Given these values, with a bit of math we can show that a player will break even on his two point field goal attempts if he hits on 30.4% of these shots. On three pointers the break-even point is 21.4%. If a player exceeds these thresholds, and virtually every NBA player does so with respect to two-point shots, the more he shoots the higher his value in PERs. So a player can be an inefficient scorer and simply inflate his value by taking a large number of shots.""
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PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 4:41 pm
32 wrote:The real question is: why were those who were critical of Monta Ellis so fond of Jack? Was it literally just the contract? Because they do similar things when they have good and bad nights.



I'm not sure how you could compare the two. Ellis was our first option when he was here, and he would not relinquish that role. Rightfully so, because he was our best option at that time. Any team with Ellis as the main scoring option is probably not going to be a winning team. On the other hand, you have Jack who you claim to be our 3rd option. He is now, but when Lee was healthy he was 4th, but whatever. You put Ellis in that same situation where he comes in off the bench to be a scoring punch and I would ab.sol.ute.ly love him. And I'm not saying he is above criticism. I agree there are things he can improve on like clock management, over-dribbling, and occasionally being turnover prone, but you have people going around asking the dumbest questions. What does he think he's doing? Does he think he's a superstar? Why doesn't he pass the ball more? Why is he ball hogging? Why does Mark Jackson trust this guy so much? Some really unfair criticism if you consider how many games he's won for us.

Anyway, there are other reasons why I like Jack as well, but for now I think this will suffice.

32 wrote:I've said it all year: I don't trust Jarrett Jack.


Well you've been wrong the whole year. At the beginning I flat out didn't like what he was doing either simply because I wasn't prepared for it. I didn't know what his game was and whether or not if he was capable of scoring, but how many times have he lead us to victory? How many games have Curry, Klay, Thompson, and Landry gone cold and Jack was there to pick up the slack? I'm not saying Jack doesn't have bad games either, because when he's doing bad, the players I've mentioned are there to pick him up as well. My point is one of the leaders on this team, and on many occasions he has put on scoring performances that has won us many games.
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PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 4:45 pm
Blackfoot wrote:PER is a great quick snap. But it directly favors high possession guys and volume scorers. If you ignore all the high possession, high volume inefficient scorers, it would be a better metric.

However it doesn't.

A quote from Dave Berri

""Hollinger argues that each two point field goal made is worth about 1.65 points. A three point field goal made is worth 2.65 points. A missed field goal, though, costs a team 0.72 points. Given these values, with a bit of math we can show that a player will break even on his two point field goal attempts if he hits on 30.4% of these shots. On three pointers the break-even point is 21.4%. If a player exceeds these thresholds, and virtually every NBA player does so with respect to two-point shots, the more he shoots the higher his value in PERs. So a player can be an inefficient scorer and simply inflate his value by taking a large number of shots.""


Errr... yeah what this guy says.

If PER says that Ellis was more efficient than Jack, then I'm not sure if I'd ever use PER as a measuring stick.
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PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 5:08 pm
Time will tell whose wrong on Jack.

I hope he keeps making shots. God knows he's gonna keep taking them.

For every ridiculously harsh comment on him out there, there's an equally stupid praising of him. Feltbot called Jack a top 10 point guard after last game (Seriously). So the door swings both ways. I'd like to see a lot less isolation from him, as he showed earlier in the year that he can playmake when he tries. But I think we all know better. With Parker hobbling, Jack won't throttle back the attempts at all. So the best we can do is hope his jumper keeps falling because even if it doesn't, he's putting up a minimum of 15 attempts tonight.

Anyone wanna bet me he'll toss up less than 16 shots tonight?
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PostPosted: Tue May 14, 2013 5:36 pm
Over-reaching and over analyzing. The only time I would really need advance stats is when I am looking at another team or another player. This idea that advance stat is the holy grail of NBA is ridiculous thats what things come across as sometimes. This is basketball not baseball, were everything is methodical. I don't need advance stat to tell me effect on the game.

When I watch the games I pick up everything I need from it.

Different variables, different team than when Monta was here, this team is dangerous because it has weapons everywhere. Has added dimensions, etc, etc.

It is what it is, Jack is the player that he is, you take the pros and cons. He is coming off the bench, bench player and those are the expectations I have for him. Last game how do we win if he didn't come through ? He becomes even more important with Currys' ankles acting up.

He is one player, you give and take how he plays, he is an added dimension, others stepped up when he was having off nights, the concept of a team.
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