How does Curry rank among other NBA point guards?

Discuss anything related to Golden State Warriors basketball here

Moderators: Mr. Crackerz, JREED, Guybrush, hobbes


All Star
Posts: 1352
Joined: Mon May 07, 2012 1:57 am
Poster Credit: 22
PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 3:40 pm
Not sure how CBS is coming up with their conclusions, but they are wrong lol
User avatar
All Star
Posts: 3621
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2007 1:05 am
Location: Oakland California
Poster Credit: 35
PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 3:54 pm
I think some of us are giving Curry a little too much credit. You have to take the bad with the good. Yes he is very efficient in terms of shooting the ball, but other than shooting the ball exceptionally well he doesn't do anything else well. He does have some pretty damn good handles, I'll give him that, but he can still improve on his playmaking, defense, drawing fouls, and he should try to get to the bucket just a tad bit more.

If he improves in these areas significantly, we'll have a damn good player on our hands. And at 12 mil a year? That's a steal. Had he hit restricted free agency he definitely would've gotten a max deal.

P.S. Wouldn't be funny/interesting if Curry went to Charlotte and had his dad calling the games while he was playing it?
From "we believe", to "we belong", to "we gon beatcho ass!"

Image
Image
Image

Image

All Star
Posts: 1352
Joined: Mon May 07, 2012 1:57 am
Poster Credit: 22
PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 3:59 pm
We aren't giving him too much credit. In terms of production he's at least top four/five and we all know he can improve and where he can improve. But having deficiency's in your games doesn't mean you aren't in the upper echelon.



I have him tied with Westbrook because I feel Westbrook has a low basketball IQ that hurts his team on a consistent level. They put up similar production once you adjust for usage rate, but they are polar opposites in play style.

Westbrook gets by on athleticism and being a dynamic scorer while making bad fundamental basketball choices and shooting lay ups wrong while Curry makes up for his lack of athleticism by being elite in the technical aspects of the game like dribbling.

But not sure how you can say this about Curry when Rondo has way more deficiencies in his game and Kyrie has the same problems right now except worse. Kyrie will probably be better, but Curry is better right now and that's what this list is. Kyrie plays god awful defense and scores less efficiently than Curry.

When Curry plays top eight defenses he experiences no percentage drop in his game, when Kyrie plays against top eight defenses, he drops by eight percent.
User avatar
Starting Lineup
Posts: 681
Joined: Tue Jul 14, 2009 1:29 am
Poster Credit: 14
PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 4:55 pm
1. Chris Paul (prototypical PG, superstar, hands down leader and floor general, pure PG, defense...just about everything you want from an ideal PG)
2. Derrick Rose (when not injured)
3. Rajon Rondo (can't shoot but a triple double threat. his passing and defense elevate him to this spot)
4. Russel Westbrook
5. Deron Williams
6. Tony Parker
7. Stephen Curry (tie)
7. Kyrie Irving (tie)
9. Ricky Rubio (could see him being #1 overall in a few years. A true floor general who has a big impact on the game)
10. John Wall


I like Curry, but I'm looking at the total body of work also, and 2-way players and pure PG's are going to get a boost, as pure PG's can make others better, and defense makes a difference. Most of these other PG's have made all star teams and Curry is still looking for his first. He should've made it, but still it obviously wasn't a no-doubter.
User avatar
Hall of Famer
Posts: 13528
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2005 10:03 pm
Location: Golden State
Poster Credit: 52
PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 5:27 pm
Blackfoot wrote:Yes, but Rose plays in the East. The talent level is different.

Chris Paul dragged a Hornets team to the playoffs that lost Aaron Gray. And the announcer said "that's a big loss." He said that about Aaron Gray.

Clippers are a +9 team when Chris Paul plays, when he missed games, they are a +2 differential team. Elite when he plays, mediocre when he doesn't.

Think of it this way, if Chris Paul was in the East as the fifth seed last year. Do you think they would not have beat the Hawks and then the 76ers to move to the ECF?

and most importantly it's a team sport, 32.

Eh, excuses. I don't denigrate Rose for being in the weaker conference anymore than I give Paul excessive credit because he plays in the West.

Why couldn't he get to the conference finals? Especially in 2008, when David West was averaging 20 and 9, Peja was adding 16 on 44% for three, and Tyson Chandler was having the greatest year of his career? The Hornets won 51 games, had depth, and got knocked out by a lesser seed in the 2nd round.

The conference finals is not THAT high of a bar over a near decade in the league for a player who SHOULD be the best at his position. LeBron's been there, Kobe's been there, Dwight's been there, Duncan's been there. Paul doesn't get a pass anymore than anyone else.

Rose has gotten the Bulls further than Paul has ever gotten the Hornets or Clippers in half the career. Again, for me, winning beats flashy stats, so that's a trump card. I'd WAY rather have a playoff team than a scoring champion. Winning is the bottom line. And Rose does it better than any point guard in a lead role (Parker and Westbrook are the only that compare through the win column, but they're not their team's franchise player).
Image
GOLDEN STATE WARRIORS DIE HARD
Image
Image

All Star
Posts: 1352
Joined: Mon May 07, 2012 1:57 am
Poster Credit: 22
PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 12:33 am
I don't either, but using playoffs to compare to different players is flawed, but using them to compare two different players in two different conferences.

The Nuggets are obviously better than the Knicks right now, but would you consider the Knicks better if they got farther in the playoffs even though you know they have a much easier path in the EC?
User avatar
Hall of Famer
Posts: 13528
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2005 10:03 pm
Location: Golden State
Poster Credit: 52
PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 11:54 am
Blackfoot wrote:I don't either, but using playoffs to compare to different players is flawed, but using them to compare two different players in two different conferences.

The Nuggets are obviously better than the Knicks right now, but would you consider the Knicks better if they got farther in the playoffs even though you know they have a much easier path in the EC?

Not for a one-time thing, like you're suggesting.

But over a 5 or 10 year span, yeah, the better team will go farther. Melo got the Nuggets to the conference finals in 2009, that's Western Conference. So of course he's capable of getting the Knicks equally far in the East. Chris Paul is an 8-year veteran. There's no reason he shouldn't have gotten to the Western Conference Finals at least once. The fact that Rose has gotten the Bulls there already in just a 4-year career makes him better to me. Because, again, great players win. Are Malone and Barkley better than Duncan because they had better personal numbers? Of course not. Winning trumps all. Even though, according to your stat, Barkley has the 7th highest career TS%, Malone has the 52nd, and Duncan ranks 147th. Duncan is still MUCH better.
Image
GOLDEN STATE WARRIORS DIE HARD
Image
Image

All Star
Posts: 1352
Joined: Mon May 07, 2012 1:57 am
Poster Credit: 22
PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 6:59 pm
32 wrote:
Blackfoot wrote:I don't either, but using playoffs to compare to different players is flawed, but using them to compare two different players in two different conferences.

The Nuggets are obviously better than the Knicks right now, but would you consider the Knicks better if they got farther in the playoffs even though you know they have a much easier path in the EC?

Not for a one-time thing, like you're suggesting.

But over a 5 or 10 year span, yeah, the better team will go farther. Melo got the Nuggets to the conference finals in 2009, that's Western Conference. So of course he's capable of getting the Knicks equally far in the East. Chris Paul is an 8-year veteran. There's no reason he shouldn't have gotten to the Western Conference Finals at least once. The fact that Rose has gotten the Bulls there already in just a 4-year career makes him better to me. Because, again, great players win. Are Malone and Barkley better than Duncan because they had better personal numbers? Of course not. Winning trumps all. Even though, according to your stat, Barkley has the 7th highest career TS%, Malone has the 52nd, and Duncan ranks 147th. Duncan is still MUCH better.


Chris Paul left a team that was a playoff team with him to a team that won the lotto with out him. The Clippers when he plays are +10 in differential and when he doesn't play are plus 3.

Rose's team this year is a solid playoff team without him and this year is considered to have a weaker supporting cast than last year.

You are punishing Chris Paul for having weaker teammates and playing in a much stronger conference. Clippers are an eight seed without Paul. Chris Paul's impact on the court is so much higher than Rose's. Rose doesn't come close to Paul. And this is without the benefit of an elite HC. VDN is frankly garbage, which is more work Paul has to do.

Paul scores better than Rose and his teammates shoot four percent better when he is on the floor. Rose's teammates shoot two percent better. Chris Paul also plays better defense on court and that's in a much weaker defensive system.

Chris Paul is the number one point guard and he is closer to Durant than Rose is to Paul.
User avatar
All Star
Posts: 3621
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2007 1:05 am
Location: Oakland California
Poster Credit: 35
PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 7:26 pm
I hate it when we start using advanced stat. I'm not your typical asian.
From "we believe", to "we belong", to "we gon beatcho ass!"

Image
Image
Image

Image
User avatar
All Star
Posts: 3621
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2007 1:05 am
Location: Oakland California
Poster Credit: 35
PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 7:42 pm
So, wtf are win shares and how do you determine it's viability? From what I'm reading it's some guy taking a formula from baseball and tweaking it. Is this guy from MIT or something?

Based on win shares, Curry is 3rd best among point guards in the NBA right now. That's pretty cool.
From "we believe", to "we belong", to "we gon beatcho ass!"

Image
Image
Image

Image
User avatar
Franchise Player
Posts: 5868
Joined: Fri May 14, 2004 5:05 am
Location: Brisbane
Poster Credit: 31
PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 10:22 pm
After tonights performance.

It's
Chris Paul
Russell Westbrook and then
Steph Curry.

I do like Rondo and Derrick Rose. But theyre both injured.
User avatar
All Star
Posts: 3621
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2007 1:05 am
Location: Oakland California
Poster Credit: 35
PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 7:43 pm
We have a hall-of-famer on our hands. We make ONE big move to get another superstar caliber player and we're in contention. Yeah I said it.
From "we believe", to "we belong", to "we gon beatcho ass!"

Image
Image
Image

Image

All Star
Posts: 1352
Joined: Mon May 07, 2012 1:57 am
Poster Credit: 22
PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 8:53 pm
Dwight Howard is a free agent.
User avatar
All Star
Posts: 3621
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2007 1:05 am
Location: Oakland California
Poster Credit: 35
PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 10:36 pm
Blackfoot wrote:Dwight Howard is a free agent.


I question his competitiveness. I have no doubt that he is near the top in terms of centers, but just at the top of my head, I'd prefer players like Roy Hibbert and Marc Gasol who have interior defense but doesn't come with the baggage of not having competitive fire, bad free throws, and lack of low post moves. I never see him mad besides being mad at the refs. He's never demonstrative or angry or anything like that. You don't have to be all macho to be successful in this league, but that's kinda what I want to see in him. The desire to win, compete, and stand your ground. I'm not saying he needs to start playing like David West or Kevin Garnett (although I wouldn't mind), but I would love to see more tenacity out of him.

The free throws I really wouldn't mind, but from what I watch and read, he doesn't make free throws when they count. Shaq was always a bad free throw shooter, but he usually made them when they counted most. That's kind of a bad excuse, but his free throw shooting and mechanics really is a liability to a team.

His post scoring is through dunks, put backs, and power moves. Homeboy has some post moves. I see he has a light weight baby hook and all that, but the player of his caliber, you expect to see way bigger strides in the post than what we have seen.

In the end I'd still take a chance on him, but these are my concerns if we do acquire him. The good news is that he provides elite interior defense. I read that his presence alone forces opponents into more jumpers. That would definitely be welcomed. We've seen what we can become with Bogut who have shown flashes of defensive superiority, but it's been spotty at best. With Dwight we would get that night in and night out. He's missed a lot of games this year, but I don't doubt that he could go back to playing 82 games a year.
From "we believe", to "we belong", to "we gon beatcho ass!"

Image
Image
Image

Image

All Star
Posts: 1352
Joined: Mon May 07, 2012 1:57 am
Poster Credit: 22
PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2013 11:42 pm
He carried a shitty Magic team to the finals. That's all I really need to know other than he is a top four player when healthy.
PreviousNext

Return to Warriors Basketball

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron