Jackson needs to fix the defense.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 12:09 am
I agree that Kobe almost shot them out the game. Just because they won they game doesn't mean you can attribute it to one particular player.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 9:05 am
I attribute the win to Kobe based on the fact that they rode his offense for the final 2 periods. I admit, he was a volume chucker in the first half. I disagree that Dwight made the difference; I felt that Kobe had just finally gotten hot and at that point Curry had failed to take advantage of Nash's poor defense to build a lead. The game was close throughout and when Kobe turned it on in the second half, we had no answer for him - not Barnes, not Klay.

I'm not upset at Klay for TRYING to guard the other team's stars; but I absolute believe that he needs a defensive counterpart, like Bogut is for Lee, in order to keep his game at the highest level. Thompson is not a lockdown defender; notice how last night, when Barnes and Lee collaborated on Carmelo, the dude was completely off. I believe that matchup was paramount to the victory; in previous games throughout this losing streak, Jackson placed Thompson on the other team's best player. Who did Klay guard last night? Iman Shumpert; a much more manageable assignment and after hitting his first 3 shots, Klay stuffed him up for the rest of the evening. Everybody wins.

I'm not trying to hate on Klay, I just don't want to put him in situations where he's in over his head, which MJax was doing throughout many of our losses. Klay is a decent defender who looks a lot better playing someone his own level; not a stopper who should be guarding stars. That's setting him up to fail.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 10:02 am
I don't question Klay's defensive effort which is something I've always complained about when talking about Ellis' defense in the past. Klay does try, but he's limited. He's not going to do well against faster, more athletic shooting guards in the league which nearly every team has. Having a guy that can defend at the 2, especially on this team, is a big key.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 10:58 am
If you remember, we were playing zone and Klay was at the 3 with two minutes left in the game.

And yes, that win was definitely because of Dwight.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 11:22 am
32 wrote:I attribute the win to Kobe based on the fact that they rode his offense for the final 2 periods. I admit, he was a volume chucker in the first half. I disagree that Dwight made the difference; I felt that Kobe had just finally gotten hot and at that point Curry had failed to take advantage of Nash's poor defense to build a lead. The game was close throughout and when Kobe turned it on in the second half, we had no answer for him - not Barnes, not Klay.

I'm not upset at Klay for TRYING to guard the other team's stars; but I absolute believe that he needs a defensive counterpart, like Bogut is for Lee, in order to keep his game at the highest level. Thompson is not a lockdown defender; notice how last night, when Barnes and Lee collaborated on Carmelo, the dude was completely off. I believe that matchup was paramount to the victory; in previous games throughout this losing streak, Jackson placed Thompson on the other team's best player. Who did Klay guard last night? Iman Shumpert; a much more manageable assignment and after hitting his first 3 shots, Klay stuffed him up for the rest of the evening. Everybody wins.

I'm not trying to hate on Klay, I just don't want to put him in situations where he's in over his head, which MJax was doing throughout many of our losses. Klay is a decent defender who looks a lot better playing someone his own level; not a stopper who should be guarding stars. That's setting him up to fail.


You can't attribute that win to ONE person and place blame on ONE person.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 1:26 pm
8th ave wrote:
32 wrote:I attribute the win to Kobe based on the fact that they rode his offense for the final 2 periods. I admit, he was a volume chucker in the first half. I disagree that Dwight made the difference; I felt that Kobe had just finally gotten hot and at that point Curry had failed to take advantage of Nash's poor defense to build a lead. The game was close throughout and when Kobe turned it on in the second half, we had no answer for him - not Barnes, not Klay.

I'm not upset at Klay for TRYING to guard the other team's stars; but I absolute believe that he needs a defensive counterpart, like Bogut is for Lee, in order to keep his game at the highest level. Thompson is not a lockdown defender; notice how last night, when Barnes and Lee collaborated on Carmelo, the dude was completely off. I believe that matchup was paramount to the victory; in previous games throughout this losing streak, Jackson placed Thompson on the other team's best player. Who did Klay guard last night? Iman Shumpert; a much more manageable assignment and after hitting his first 3 shots, Klay stuffed him up for the rest of the evening. Everybody wins.

I'm not trying to hate on Klay, I just don't want to put him in situations where he's in over his head, which MJax was doing throughout many of our losses. Klay is a decent defender who looks a lot better playing someone his own level; not a stopper who should be guarding stars. That's setting him up to fail.


You can't attribute that win to ONE person and place blame on ONE person.

Okay. Then I'll change the wording for you:

Kobe was the catalyst to LA's victory. It's a team effort, but Kobe was the biggest piece to the puzzle.

I'm not blaming the loss on Klay, I'm giving him partial (majority, even) responsibility for Kobe going off. Yes, Kobe started poorly (10-for-29 in the first 3 quarters). He went 6-of-12 in the last two periods. They were not playing zone in OT. So yes, while I don't blame Klay for the loss, I give him his share of credit for Kobe's big game.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 2:41 pm
I don't expect anyone to stop the likes of Kobe, Wade or Harden. But I do expect them to limit guys like Evan Turner, Gordon Hayward or OJ Mayo. One poor defender can effect the entire team. If one guy can't stop one player, coaches will go to a zone. In a zone, its not that hard to get wide open looks from the outside, which is why the Warriors has struggled defending the 3 in recent games. Or they double team, which leaves wide open shots as well. And Klay isn't the only one. This team just don't have many defenders. Curry, Thompson and Lee are all considered average or below defenders. Barnes has struggled as a rookie which isn't a surprise and their best interior defender (Bogut) has missed more than 3/4 of the season so far. Its just not a recipe for consistent success to expect this team to play great defense. They don't have a Bruce Bowen or Tim Duncan type player. Or even a Kirilenko or Moute type. They need one in the starting line up and I just don't see Klay, Barnes, Curry or Lee being that player.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 5:58 pm
You are wrong 32. Kobe was not the catalyst. Dwight was and his impact when he went on the court and off of it was very, very visible.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 10:39 am
Correction, Blackfoot. You're wrong. Dwight Howard didn't play 30 minutes in that game. His impact was 11 and 6. And while flawed APBRmetrics reports based on box scores may say otherwise, a first-hand account of what Kobe did to the Warriors in the 4th quarter and overtime tell the most complete and revealing story. He shot 50% in those two periods, Klay couldn't stop him, and the backcourt simply squandered their opportunity to take advantage of Nash on defense. That is the complete story of the game. Had Curry and Thompson taken advantage of Nash instead of shooting themselves in the foot, Kobe's hot conclusion would have been moot, and Thompson's inability to bottleneck Bryant in the clutch wouldn't have been so obvious.

It has become clear to me that we're not going to see eye to eye on this issue and while we could go back-and-forth seemingly until the end of time, I have to wonder exactly what the point would be given that this game occurred months ago. Therefore, I offer you the last word on the game in the hopes that we can return to the original topic: the defense of this team, which performed MUCH better with Barnes on Anthony than Thompson.

Again, for the slow: I'm not slighting Thompson's defense, I'm being the realist. Klay Thompson is not a defensive stopper, he's a mite unathletic, and shouldn't be used to neutralize opposing stars. To do so would be setting him up to fail; something we've seen all too often this season. If Jackson gets Thompson to matchup with smaller guards or unathletic players, it's all good. But you can't expect him to shutdown an athletic stud of similar size. It's just not realistic.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 2:23 pm
BayAreaHoopz wrote:Curry, Thompson and Lee are all considered average or below defenders.


I don't think anyone's gonna call Klay a lockdown defender, but I'd say his basement would be avg. not below avg.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 3:40 pm
32 wrote:Correction, Blackfoot. You're wrong. Dwight Howard didn't play 30 minutes in that game. His impact was 11 and 6. And while flawed APBRmetrics reports based on box scores may say otherwise, a first-hand account of what Kobe did to the Warriors in the 4th quarter and overtime tell the most complete and revealing story. He shot 50% in those two periods, Klay couldn't stop him, and the backcourt simply squandered their opportunity to take advantage of Nash on defense. That is the complete story of the game. Had Curry and Thompson taken advantage of Nash instead of shooting themselves in the foot, Kobe's hot conclusion would have been moot, and Thompson's inability to bottleneck Bryant in the clutch wouldn't have been so obvious.

It has become clear to me that we're not going to see eye to eye on this issue and while we could go back-and-forth seemingly until the end of time, I have to wonder exactly what the point would be given that this game occurred months ago. Therefore, I offer you the last word on the game in the hopes that we can return to the original topic: the defense of this team, which performed MUCH better with Barnes on Anthony than Thompson.

Again, for the slow: I'm not slighting Thompson's defense, I'm being the realist. Klay Thompson is not a defensive stopper, he's a mite unathletic, and shouldn't be used to neutralize opposing stars. To do so would be setting him up to fail; something we've seen all too often this season. If Jackson gets Thompson to matchup with smaller guards or unathletic players, it's all good. But you can't expect him to shutdown an athletic stud of similar size. It's just not realistic.


His defensive impact was enormous and the fact we kicked their ass when he wasn't in the game and gave up a fourteen point lead when he came in should be the number one flag to you that he was the catalyst of that Lakers win.

And I will repeat this like a broken record, Klay was playing the 3 in a zone defense for the fourth quarter, which is when Kobe stopped being really shitty.

And each possession is worth the same through out the game, I doubt the Lakers would have been that far behind for Dwight to catapult them if he didn't shoot so many shots. I even remember commentating saying during the second quarter is that when Kobe misses he wants to shoot more and I was really happy to see that be correct as he shot and shot and shot to give us a big lead. Dwight came in, made it very hard to defend anyone with a Lee and Landry front court. He drew everybody in and that's why Kobe started to do not shitty that game.

Dwight's defense and offensive presence.

Edit: http://www.nba.com/advancedstats/player ... 3;season=r

Kobe Bryant is below his average in everything except the paint and restricted area vs Klay.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 3:46 pm
Let's all go home as friends.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 3:58 pm
We are and will lol
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 4:10 pm
Blackfoot wrote:We are and will lol


That's all the matters, baby.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2013 4:29 pm
8th ave wrote:
Blackfoot wrote:We are and will lol


That's all the matters, baby.

:drinking: First round's on me, bruh!

This thread is an excellent example of how vigorous debate can exist without malice. Blackfoot and I were never going to come to blows over our disagreement. In the end, I think it's a fair assumption to say that we're butting heads so rigorously because we respect each other's opinion. Personally, when I don't believe someone knows their stuff, I say my piece and exit in kind. The reason we're trying to convince each other is because we respect the view of the other person and it's interesting to hear the opposition. Just a quick PTI moment is all. And since we have no bell to put us on the next topic, I figured I'd just cue the transition.

No harm, no foul.

And, look ma, the mods didn't have to say a word. :wink: Excellent debate, gentlemen.
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