1-Year Later: Who Won The Trade?

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Who won the trade last February?

Both teams won
1
6%
Golden State Warriors
8
50%
Milwaukee Bucks
4
25%
Both teams lost
3
19%
 
Total votes : 16


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 3:39 pm
Definitely right on with Asik if the Bogut thing never panned out.

Disagree wtih Kaman, Lopez, and Thompson. All have posted negative value this year except Thompson, who is exactly zero.

Only one that's better on this list than a Carl-Lee combo at the four and five would be Asik.

But if we didn't trade for Bogut and got Asik, definitely would have been on board with that. I liked the move for the Rockets when they first made it as well.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 4:42 pm
Alright. I fear I'm coming off as a Bogut-hater in a mad attempt to prove a point, so let me at least clarify my position so nobody mistakes me for an Ellis supporter and not a fan of Andrew Bogut. This is the non-Devil's advocate, un-Skip Bayless'd perspective I hold:

Am I happy the team made the deal?

Absolutely. I'm 100% in agreement with Blackfoot's logic: it was a drastic measure to illustrate the new direction of the team. They ousted Nellie, Cohan, Rowell, and demoted Larry Riley from GM to head scout (no need to throw out the baby with the bath water; Riley has done exceptionally well in regards to drafting talent). Clearly, the last step was to send the old franchise player on his way. And while I believe Ellis is an asset and could be a dramatically great 6th man, the fact remains that there was no guarantee that he would accept a bench role here. On the contrary, his feuds with Lee and Curry would practically ensure that he wouldn't have accepted anything less than franchise player status here and that was simply out of the question. Basketball rosters, management, coaching staffs... They're given a grace period of 3-5 years to prove whether or not they can compete and, thus, be built around. Ellis had ample opportunity to make a statement here; this was HIS team for multiple seasons. Unfortunately, the guy wasn't getting it done in the Western Conference and it was time for a divorce.

So am I happy with the shipment we received for him?

Again, absolutely.. When he's healthy, Andrew Bogut is my 2nd favorite player on the roster (behind David Lee). There's no need to stress his strengths and re-post my scouting report of him for the 18th time; we all know his ceiling. When he's right, Bogut trails Howard, Bynum, and arguably Marc Gasol in terms of great centers. He's the smartest defensive basketball player over 7-feet in the world. Great leader, great worker, the absolute antithesis of what Ellis was. Yes, I'm stoked to have Andrew Bogut.

My only point throughout this thread is that the trade has weaknesses and still has the potential to be poor if Bogut falls apart. I don't buy the argument that the trade is great just for the sake of it being a Monta-trade. That's all.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 3:40 am
32 wrote:Alright. I fear I'm coming off as a Bogut-hater in a mad attempt to prove a point, so let me at least clarify my position so nobody mistakes me for an Ellis supporter and not a fan of Andrew Bogut. This is the non-Devil's advocate, un-Skip Bayless'd perspective I hold:

Am I happy the team made the deal?

Absolutely. I'm 100% in agreement with Blackfoot's logic: it was a drastic measure to illustrate the new direction of the team. They ousted Nellie, Cohan, Rowell, and demoted Larry Riley from GM to head scout (no need to throw out the baby with the bath water; Riley has done exceptionally well in regards to drafting talent). Clearly, the last step was to send the old franchise player on his way. And while I believe Ellis is an asset and could be a dramatically great 6th man, the fact remains that there was no guarantee that he would accept a bench role here. On the contrary, his feuds with Lee and Curry would practically ensure that he wouldn't have accepted anything less than franchise player status here and that was simply out of the question. Basketball rosters, management, coaching staffs... They're given a grace period of 3-5 years to prove whether or not they can compete and, thus, be built around. Ellis had ample opportunity to make a statement here; this was HIS team for multiple seasons. Unfortunately, the guy wasn't getting it done in the Western Conference and it was time for a divorce.

So am I happy with the shipment we received for him?

Again, absolutely.. When he's healthy, Andrew Bogut is my 2nd favorite player on the roster (behind David Lee). There's no need to stress his strengths and re-post my scouting report of him for the 18th time; we all know his ceiling. When he's right, Bogut trails Howard, Bynum, and arguably Marc Gasol in terms of great centers. He's the smartest defensive basketball player over 7-feet in the world. Great leader, great worker, the absolute antithesis of what Ellis was. Yes, I'm stoked to have Andrew Bogut.

My only point throughout this thread is that the trade has weaknesses and still has the potential to be poor if Bogut falls apart. I don't buy the argument that the trade is great just for the sake of it being a Monta-trade. That's all.


BOGUT HATER! ::razz:
:wink: :)
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 1:06 pm
lol

nah I think I'm just now fully getting your logic 32 lol ... .....so yeah I'd agree it's more than fair to question this trade on the basis of Bogut's health outlook. I think most Warrior fans are happy the trade went down and think it was the best decision, but if we objectively asked how good is it if Bogut never ever again played, fair enough. I'm just saying if there's a better deal or plan out there, I'm all ears. Cuz if we knock one thing, we gotta ask what's a better thing or better alternative..whether that means standing pat, possibility of a better trade, more cap room and flexibility, etc... In reality of the situation at the time of the trade, what obviously pushes this over the top as a good trade or best trade available (imo), is that Ellis needed to go (even for bag of Doritos) and the gamble for Bogut being a worthy risk.

But with the condition being Bogut never plays again, I think it really comes down to one question:

Is Barnes / Ezeli / good chemistry / Curry and Klay's development / RJ and Bogut (not playing) contracts > Ellis or his trade value, Kwame, Udoh, & cap room available for starting FA center or other trade possibilities?

In the real world with all the intangibles with chemistry of team, etc... I'd say 100% YES right move, right decision, Ellis had to go for the sake of the team.

In NBA 2K13 or fantasy basketball, would this still be a good move? This is not as easy of a choice. Would I make that trade in NBA 2K13 (with the knowledge of Bogut having a durability rating of 0) ? Idk. Not a clear cut choice. But what I base whether something is a win trade or not isn't going to show up in fantasy basketball. Most of the reasons I think this trade is a win (even with Bogut never playing) are the intangibles like chemistry, addition by subtraction, and development room for Curry and Klay.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 2:12 pm
In NBA2K, this is a great trade. Bogut won't get hurt in the preseason in a video game. Even with a durability of 0, you're likely to get SOME production out of him.

In fantasy basketball, this deal is horrible. Monta Ellis sh*ts on everyone in this deal (even Bogut) if we're just talking numbers... And yes, even with his poor percentages, Ellis gets you more points, 3's, steals, assists, and free throws than Bogut gives you in blocks, boards, and field goal percentage.

As far as your pros and cons, some of those are fair (Ezeli, for example, is a direct result of these 2 deals). But several others don't really pertain specifically to this trade: ANY deal shedding the team of Ellis would add those "chemistry/Thompson development/tanking for Barnes" stuff you mentioned. I don't think you necessarily have to sacrifice the cap room Brown and Udoh gave you to obtain team chemistry. Again, if the goal was purely to dish Ellis and you knew Bogut would only play 45 of his first 115 games as a Warrior (and that's assuming he doesn't suffer any more set-backs), wouldn't you rather have let Kwame expire so you could overpay for Omer Asik, while unloading Ellis to a team for a similar contract with less years and possibly draft picks?

I'll bet San Antonio would have given us their 1st AND 2nd rounder, plus RJ and either Patty Mills or Gary Neal for a package of Ellis and Udoh. That would have rid us of Ellis, given us $7 million in expired cash from Kwame, assured the Ezeli pick, allowed us to tank, and netted us 2 extra prospects. Just saying. You can always fall back on the fact that none of these alternative trades could be proven, but I'm just saying. If Bogut completely falls apart, there will ALWAYS be the possibility that this was a poor trade due to the salary consequences he and Jefferson bring. You can't deny that. Just like no one can deny that a healthy Bogut makes this trade a slam dunk.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 3:20 pm
32 wrote:In NBA2K, this is a great trade. Bogut won't get hurt in the preseason in a video game. Even with a durability of 0, you're likely to get SOME production out of him.

In fantasy basketball, this deal is horrible. Monta Ellis sh*ts on everyone in this deal (even Bogut) if we're just talking numbers... And yes, even with his poor percentages, Ellis gets you more points, 3's, steals, assists, and free throws than Bogut gives you in blocks, boards, and field goal percentage.

As far as your pros and cons, some of those are fair (Ezeli, for example, is a direct result of these 2 deals). But several others don't really pertain specifically to this trade: ANY deal shedding the team of Ellis would add those "chemistry/Thompson development/tanking for Barnes" stuff you mentioned. I don't think you necessarily have to sacrifice the cap room Brown and Udoh gave you to obtain team chemistry. Again, if the goal was purely to dish Ellis and you knew Bogut would only play 45 of his first 115 games as a Warrior (and that's assuming he doesn't suffer any more set-backs), wouldn't you rather have let Kwame expire so you could overpay for Omer Asik, while unloading Ellis to a team for a similar contract with less years and possibly draft picks?

I'll bet San Antonio would have given us their 1st AND 2nd rounder, plus RJ and either Patty Mills or Gary Neal for a package of Ellis and Udoh. That would have rid us of Ellis, given us $7 million in expired cash from Kwame, assured the Ezeli pick, allowed us to tank, and netted us 2 extra prospects. Just saying. You can always fall back on the fact that none of these alternative trades could be proven, but I'm just saying. If Bogut completely falls apart, there will ALWAYS be the possibility that this was a poor trade due to the salary consequences he and Jefferson bring. You can't deny that. Just like no one can deny that a healthy Bogut makes this trade a slam dunk.

The key to winning in fanatasy basketball is FG percentage. Monta Ellis will kill you in the most important stat.


I am first seed and second seed in both of my league with all high percentage guys.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 4:13 pm
Blackfoot wrote:
32 wrote:In NBA2K, this is a great trade. Bogut won't get hurt in the preseason in a video game. Even with a durability of 0, you're likely to get SOME production out of him.

In fantasy basketball, this deal is horrible. Monta Ellis sh*ts on everyone in this deal (even Bogut) if we're just talking numbers... And yes, even with his poor percentages, Ellis gets you more points, 3's, steals, assists, and free throws than Bogut gives you in blocks, boards, and field goal percentage.

As far as your pros and cons, some of those are fair (Ezeli, for example, is a direct result of these 2 deals). But several others don't really pertain specifically to this trade: ANY deal shedding the team of Ellis would add those "chemistry/Thompson development/tanking for Barnes" stuff you mentioned. I don't think you necessarily have to sacrifice the cap room Brown and Udoh gave you to obtain team chemistry. Again, if the goal was purely to dish Ellis and you knew Bogut would only play 45 of his first 115 games as a Warrior (and that's assuming he doesn't suffer any more set-backs), wouldn't you rather have let Kwame expire so you could overpay for Omer Asik, while unloading Ellis to a team for a similar contract with less years and possibly draft picks?

I'll bet San Antonio would have given us their 1st AND 2nd rounder, plus RJ and either Patty Mills or Gary Neal for a package of Ellis and Udoh. That would have rid us of Ellis, given us $7 million in expired cash from Kwame, assured the Ezeli pick, allowed us to tank, and netted us 2 extra prospects. Just saying. You can always fall back on the fact that none of these alternative trades could be proven, but I'm just saying. If Bogut completely falls apart, there will ALWAYS be the possibility that this was a poor trade due to the salary consequences he and Jefferson bring. You can't deny that. Just like no one can deny that a healthy Bogut makes this trade a slam dunk.

The key to winning in fanatasy basketball is FG percentage. Monta Ellis will kill you in the most important stat.


I am first seed and second seed in both of my league with all high percentage guys.

Well, there ARE different leagues. When I took 1st and 3rd in our inaugural fantasy season on this board, our leagues didn't take any percentages into account. :dontknow: migya was the commish... I believe the league was Yahoo! or something? Anyways, they counted 3's made, but didn't take any percentages into account. In a league like that, Ellis crushes the value of Bogut:

Points, Ellis
Rebounds, Bogut
Assists, Ellis
Steals, Ellis
Blocks, Bogut
Turnovers, Bogut
3-Pointers, Ellis

Hmmmm, that's a lot closer than I thought... Although the categories that Ellis takes (points, dimes, 3's, steals) he takes them by a LOT. Bogut will easily block 6 times the shots of Ellis, but rebounding isn't as drastic. A career 9 RPGS center versus a career 5 RPGS guard. Some games, both guys will leave with 8. But yeah. If %'s aren't accounted for, I think Ellis takes it.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 5:46 pm
Fair enough. With out FG percentage Ellis crushes it.
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