Blackfoot wrote:

8th ave wrote:Ou forgot to mention that the West gets a little weaker and East gets a little stronger. That's something that needs to start trending, because the amount of competition in the West is ridiculous.

Yeah, that is a good thing.

I still think the Grizzlies hold on the fourth seed, but barely. Tayshun Prince is a very good fit, plays great defense and hits the three ball better than Gay. Which I think is the motivator here, he spaces the floor better. They might get worse, but I can't image more than a game drop off. I remember them beating the Spurs in the playoffs and taking the Thunder to seven without Gay.

Gay was inefficient offensively this year, but I think that has more to do with the very bad offensive system they run. He was forced to take a lot of bad shots. He should probably be better with the Raptors. And his defense will always be there.

I agree it doesn't totally criple them. Davis is good and will be a good fit off the bench, but who still I think this deal plus the previous deal could destroy the chemistry they had going. I think they have lost a lot of thoughness by trading Spieghts, Ellinton, Shelby, Gay, Haddadi, for John Leuer, Ed Davis, Austin Daye and Prince, plus a pick.

When you look at it that way, they do look considerably less talented, and less though.

In my opinion Toronto looks much better after this trade. They aren't a big hitter in FA anyway so don't have to worry about cap space too much, and they be just under the luxury with 12 players.
Starting lineup of Lowry, DeRozan, Gay, Bargnani, Valancuinas, is a good lineup. Then with Fields, Ross, and serviceable bigs Amir Johnson and Aaron Gray coming off the bench, not bad.

I am really hating that Bargs is in the starting line up. Since he got injured and stopped starting/playing they were ninth in offensive efficiency. The fact he has to start again, that hurts them.

I think Darrell Arthur is included in the trade. Can someone double check this?

8th ave wrote:I think Darrell Arthur is included in the trade. Can someone double check this?

I am going to say no, he's not, but I could be wrong.


Straight up, slam dunk winner: The Pistons. Reason, expiring deal.

Grizzlies may hurt themselves in the playoffs this year (bad), but give them future flexibility (Good).

Raptors give themselves a playoff window for a couple of years (good), mortgaged the future for a team that's just not there. (bad)


Pistons definitely win this trade.

32, nobody here said that Rudy is bad, I love the dude's game, I just wasn't willing to sacrifice Harrison, for that contract, cause I believe they will be similar players in the end, and, Barnes still has to sign his big contract.

On the other hand, I like the Raptors, they entered the league while I just started watching the NBA during my elementary school, so I'm fond of them for some reason. And I think they did a good thing, especially because, unlike Warriors, they didn't have a good SF, or SF with huge potential. They have Landry, with a bad contract. So, Gay is a huge upgrade, and hopefully he will take them to the POs, if not this year, then the next one. But, like BF said, it's hard with Bargs, but maybe he will find a way to fit in better with these changes. To get more physical, and try to score inside, not just remove himself from the paint, and reduce team's chances to grab an offensive rebound, or make it tougher for their C. Ed Davis was better at that, he was athletic, yet quite physical player.

Blackfoot wrote:

32 wrote:Ok. It's happened. Gay has been dealt to Toronto.

And it only took a package involving Tayshaun Prince, Ed Davis, and Austin Daye to get him. Let's see how Toronto reacts (currently, they're 11th in the East). That new starting 5 looks like:

PG: Kyle Lowry / John Lucas
SG. DeMar DeRozan / Landry Fields
SF: Rudy Gay / Terrence Ross
PF: Andrea Bargnani / Linus Kleza
C: Amir Johnson / Aaron Gray / Jonas Valanciunus

Let's see how this effects the Craptors. I predict a solid 5-6 seed if Lowry can stay healthy. Great deal by Colangelo.

Not with Bargs starting again. They are paying Demar eleven million, Landry six million, gay sixteen million, and Bargs 11 million. I think they may be the eight seed next year with the Hawks and Celtics dropping out next year, but they really crippled themselves for the future and they lost a high upside, potential all star PF in Davis.

I don't like this deal for them.

I like this deal for the Pistons, flip a bad contract for an expiring contract.

I like this deal long term for the Grizzlies, I am pretty high on Ed Davis.

I'm not as high on Ed Davis. IMO, efficient, tenacious rebounder, but all-star? I'm not ready to say that. All-stars typically average double-digit scoring by their 3rd season and Davis is still a 9 and 9 guy. Don't get me wrong; he's the kinda guy you want on your team, but all-star? High ceiling? I guess we'll have to wait and see.

Just like we'll have to wait and see on the effect Gay has on the raptors. I said 5-6 seed, you said miss the playoffs? Let's revisit this topic in a month or two. In the meantime, Toronto is stockpiling assets, Detroit picked up the league's most underrated point guard, and Memphis lost Gay's money without taking too much of a talent hit (though Tayshaun isn't gonna make anybody forget Rudy).

@PeterVecsey1 Warriors have eyed Gay...Griz wanted Barnes & Jack &...assumed final year pact of AB or RJ. GS split decision against

I am glad, honestly. Jenkins would be starting today if we did that.

I think Gay is over paid by about three million, but the Grizz will lose a fair bit after this trade and that's good for us, because we could actually get home court for the 1st round.

Detroit can definately sign two very good players to go next to Monroe, Drummond and Knight. If they play it right they could once again be near the top in the East.

8th ave wrote:@PeterVecsey1 Warriors have eyed Gay...Griz wanted Barnes & Jack &...assumed final year pact of AB or RJ. GS split decision against

Jack was obviously the hold up there; as Memphis was looking for a starter-quality point guard to flip to Detroit.

I'm with BF; Barnes AND Jack would be too much to overcome. I was okay with the idea of Landry or Rush' contract, because Rush won't play this year and I think we can replace Landry's production with Bogut back at full strength... However, Jarrett Jack is a huge catalyst to this offense, he keeps Steph Curry hot, he's an emotional leader, and the team needs him to continue this style of play. Lastly, the idea of giving up Barnes, from the start, was a calculated risk. He's obviously a high ceiling guy with massive potential. It'd be tough to sell him (even for an all-star like Gay). Throw a catalyst like Jack into the equation? That's an automatic no.

5 games into the trade and Gay has the Raptors playing noticeably better. A 35% team before the trade, the Raptors are 3-2 (60%) in games with Gay, are on a 2-game winning steak, and were a dry 4th quarter away from beating Boston - making their only convincing loss with Gay against Miami.

Yes, Gay has continued to shoot inefficiently as a Raptor (41% on 21 shots a game), but he's triple-slashing a 23.4 point, 6.4 rebound, and 3.0 steal stat-line. The downed assists (2.4 per game) should improve as the familiarity comes along, he's playing a ton of minutes, and he's getting to the line for 5.4 free throws a game.

In other words, Gay has increased his points, boards, steals, blocks, minutes, FG%, free throw attempts, and free throw percentage. He's regressed in assists, but he's cut his turnovers in half, and his three-pointers won't stay at 20% all year. This far, Gay looks primed to be the midseason pickup of the year.

I'm starting to question whether I'd have given them Barnes, Jack, and Biedrins for him... I'd be curious to know who voted which way in the alleged GS split decision according to Peter Vescey (which, you gotta imagine, was between Myers, West, and Lacob). If West was the one on board with a Gay trade, we definitely should have done it. If Myers wanted him, I'm glad we didn't make the move. Either way, you gotta guess (after the Ellis trade reaction, combined with the price tag and the outcome being negative) that Lacob was a no.

I have to see more five games before I even start to look at the stats of the Raptors. There is like 30 games left. I will judge with about 15 more games under their belt.

No, you're right, it's a small sample size.

But this is only the 4th time all year the Raptors have strung multiple victories together AND the Clippers and Pacers (whom they've beaten with Gay) were two teams that had bested them in contests prior to the trade. I know you're not a Rudy Gay fan, but you gotta admit he's got them playing better. I'm not saying they'll win the Eastern Conference title, but they have performed noticeably better with Gay. Is that fair?

32 wrote:No, you're right, it's a small sample size.

But this is only the 4th time all year the Raptors have strung multiple victories together AND the Clippers and Pacers (whom they've beaten with Gay) were two teams that had bested them in contests prior to the trade. I know you're not a Rudy Gay fan, but you gotta admit he's got them playing better. I'm not saying they'll win the Eastern Conference title, but they have performed noticeably better with Gay. Is that fair?

Yeah, that's fair.