Grizzlies exploring Trade Options with Gay

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:58 am
The issue with improving this team to be more competitive as it fights for a playoff berth is not who is the starting power forward.

Would I want Rudy Gay over Harrison Barnes? Hell, yes; however, the team is in need of help in the paint, not on the perimeter.

Teams with big front lines will continue to give the Warriors trouble until a healthy Bogut returns, Ezeli shows rapid improvement, Biedrens develops some offensive game, or the team acquires via trade a long (read: tall) and athletic big man.

The thing that Rudy Gay does bring to the Warriors is the ability to both create a shot off the dribble as well as move and set up away from the ball for a perimeter jump shot. The Warriors are lacking in the ability to create shots off the dribble.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 11:34 am
We also have to take into consideration the financial ramifications that someone like Gay would bring. Yes, at this point, Gay is a more established player, but is he $14M more established than the potential of Barnes? And what do the Warriors give up for him? Andris and Jefferson? They've already chuckled at the offer, so it would have to be one of those players along with a young player like Klay Thompson or Barnes a with a filler. The Warriors just don't have the pieces to land a person like Gay in the first place and any trade will for him would break up the core of this team that is 22-12. I'd much rather have them ride this team for the season and see how far it gets them, especially when Bogut returns. Next year, Biedrins and Jefferson will be sought after commodities since they're both sizable expiring contracts. Those two can get them back a better play than Gay if their is a team looking to shed salary like Memphis this year.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 4:54 pm
+1 to both you gents, another solid thread we've got here!

I'm a little busy so my responses will come later, but you both make solid points. I'll say this for now: until we get some consistency outta the starting 3 spot, this will continue to be a relative topic until the trade deadline or Gay's transaction to another team (whichever comes first).
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 4:56 pm
Or Barnes emergence happens really quick.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 6:58 am
You make some great points 32. If this trade went down, I wouldn't curse the sky. After all it is a upgrade of talent over potential, and I've always been a fan of that. Curry Klay Gay Lee Bogut IS siick on paper. Even Conf. finals worthy? I still would be against the trade due to Gay's contract (not in favor of paying a non-all star like he's Kobe) and threat to chemistry (idk if Gay's ball-stopping would fit in). The Warriors have GREAT chemistry and are having a great season...any move that may change that I'm weary of. I think the plan they have with prospect Barnes and future expirings is a good one with flexibility. But if this is the route they took I couldn't fault them either. Just sometimes GMs get too clever for their own good and don't think about how different moves impact the team.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 10:06 am
Damn, man. If Rush and Bogut were healthy and this trade went down it would've been nuts.

Curry
Thompson
Gay
Lee
Bogut

Landry
Rush
Jack off the bench....

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From "we believe", to "we belong", to "we gon beatcho ass!"

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 11:07 am
Until the team gets rid of AB and RJ, salary will be a huge issue. Gay is paid like he is a top 5 player which he certainly is not. Barnes has at least three years to show how good he really is and is on a rookie contract right now.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 9:31 am
1/13/2013

Another loss dominated by a surplus of production out of the swing spot. Gallo, Chandler, and Corey Brewer ate us up with a combined 48 points (on 50%), 17 rebounds, 8 assists, 3 steals, and only 4 combined fouls. Can we acknowledge that our biggest weakness is defending the SF spot yet? Denver's starter (Gallo) shot 58%, despite his season average being 41%.

By comparison, when the Grizzlies whupped the Spurs in an overtime victory on Friday, not only did Rudy Gay get you 23 and 6 (on 50% shooting), but he SHUT DOWN the 3 spot for San Antonio. Kawai Leonard? 6 points in 38 minutes, 33%. Stephen Jackson? 7 points in 19, nothing but cheapies (free throws and three's) and couldn't get off but 3 attempts from the field.

So how about a friendly wager, for cred points. Anyone wanna bet me that Rudy Gay (the Monta Ellis doppelgänger) will shoot below 40% tonight against the Clippers (since, on the court, chucking has been anointed his issue by several people in this thread)? I'll bet that not only does Gay shoot in the high 40's to low 50's, but I'll bet Caron, Matt Barnes, and Crawford (when playing with Paul and Bledsoe) will shoot below 50% combined.

Any takers?
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 3:44 pm
A lot of their wide open shots came when we couldn't get a rebound, because we didn't have big guys in. So, they grab offensive rebound, our defense is scattered at that point, and toss the ball out to a wide open shooter.

Yes, their wing players had a good game, but, no, it wasn't because of our wing players playing bad D, but because we wanted to play small ball with team that is a good rebounding team with good centers. It's that simple. Stats will tell you that, but the game tells you that we should have played Ezeli more, even if it meant him fouling out.


And I'm not gonna take that bet, cause usually one of those Clippers guys is gonna shoot real ugly, usually one at least has a bad night, and shoots something like 2-14. ::razz:

On the other hand, I'm not against Gay. But, like yesterday, Harrison can do what he does, when given minutes. Next year, I'm hoping, numbers will be really close for those two.
And how can you guard their wing players, with our SF players, when for the big part of the game we played Klay on SF position, while our PGs were both PG and SG?

You can tell that I'm not a fan of small ball, but, to be real here, that's what is killing us. We can live with that when opposing team is not far from us, when it comes to centers, but we can't play with two PFs (some will say that Lee is even undersized) against good centers. I like small ball in some little stints, but otherwise...it's gonna cost us games.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 7:09 pm
Are we supposed to believe that these booming swingman numbers that are present all throughout our losses are just coincidental?

Look, I'm not saying Harrison Barnes is a terrible defender. But, again, let's give Memphis' SF his dues: Barnes is nowhere near Rudy Gay defensively.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 7:38 pm
No, you are supposed to see that we play small ball, and with three guards throughout most of our games. So, Klay on opposing team's SF, equals a lot of points for that guy.

I'm not saying he is bad defensively, I just believe that we would be sorry if we do that, cause Harrison might in the end be better than him. If not better, than close to that for sure. Anyway, what's the point of trading for him, if we are going to play with 3 guards?

I believe that if Harrison was on a team, where he would be one of first options on offense, for instance if Bobcats took him instead of MKG, that he would be putting up pretty much the same number as Gay does, in his first year. Here, Curry and Klay are the shooters, and they are going to take 15 attempts even on bad nights, add there Lee, and our two bench guys that use ball a lot, there really isn't enough chances for Barnes, he needs to use those shots he gets, and you are getting out of rhythm when you are spelled for a while. I'm of a opinion that Barnes would be even better on offense, if he wasn't respecting some of veteran players too much, and standing at the side, waiting for his turn, cause in the end, he is a better talent than some of our team's top players.

So, I'm trying to say, that I would rather give him that time, to make him feel more comfortable, improve his defense etc, before the POs, than bring in a new guy, that won't wait for his turn on offense, cause he thinks he is a star, and should have a lot of balls coming his way. That, on this team, with this many scorers, might ruin the whole chemistry. And I'm not saying Gay is not a good player, or a star, he is, just when I look the whole picture, I see more risk than possible profit coming out of it.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 2:08 pm
So, long story short, you believe Harrison Barnes will someday be as good or better than Rudy Gay?

Cause that's a BOLD statement. Gay is putting up 18 points sharing the ball with ZBo and Gasol. I think it's fair to say he'd still put up 16ish in Golden State, which is nearly double that of Barnes. Klay Thompson is best suited as a spot-up shooter; adding Rudy Gay to this offense would help him more than anyone else, except maybe Lee (who set up the Black Falcon jam, mind you).

While I admire the zest for Harrison and (I feel the need to repeat this since I'm seemingly championing the call to trade him, but): I really, really like the kid too. It's just the same thing I was saying this past summer: I love Klay Thompson's game... But I like Andre Iguodala's more. Likewise, I love Harrison Barnes' tools and high-ceiling... But I like Rudy Gay as a player more.

We'll just have to see who lands Gay and observe his effect on that team. I refuse to agree with the sentiment that Gay is anything near as bad as Monta Ellis (despite the heady usage rates). It'll be interesting to see what his game translates to outside of Memphis' slow scheme where he's always been.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 7:43 pm
Gay kind of forces his way to the 18 PPG, pretty high usage rate. The thing, is if we know he will share the ball and only shoot when we need him to, great. However, there is no guarantee he won't ball hog here either.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:36 am
Ball hog?

He's putting up 16.5 attempts per game. Curry leads us with 16.4, Lee follows at 15.5, and neither Ler nor Curry strike me as a black hole... And all 3 of these guys are within 1 attempt of each other. I know he has a high usage rate, but you must concede that that number will decrease given Golden State's superior backcourt to Memphis. Gay handles the ball on a semi-regular basis for the Grizzlies (which displays his versatility), but he'd have a much different role here.

Monta Ellis finished his Warriors career chucking 19.0 attempts, after two prior seasons of 20.1 and 22.0. THAT'S a ball hog. Gay is nothing close to that. He's averaged 16 attempts every year but his rookie year and he's always been the best overall offensive player on his team. You can't compare Rudy Gay to Monta Ellis.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:50 am
32 wrote:Ball hog?

He's putting up 16.5 attempts per game. Curry leads us with 16.4, Lee follows at 15.5, and neither Ler nor Curry strike me as a black hole... And all 3 of these guys are within 1 attempt of each other. I know he has a high usage rate, but you must concede that that number will decrease given Golden State's superior backcourt to Memphis. Gay handles the ball on a semi-regular basis for the Grizzlies (which displays his versatility), but he'd have a much different role here.

Monta Ellis finished his Warriors career chucking 19.0 attempts, after two prior seasons of 20.1 and 22.0. THAT'S a ball hog. Gay is nothing close to that. He's averaged 16 attempts every year but his rookie year and he's always been the best overall offensive player on his team. You can't compare Rudy Gay to Monta Ellis.


He still puts up a high usage rate because usage rate is any end of an offensive possession, which include possessions.

But ignoring that, my definition of a ball hog is shooting when it starts to hurt your efficiency and the teams efficiency. I think he should be deferring me. But that may also maybe a product of their offense which is very slow. He may be in fact forced to shoot a bunch of bad shoots because they are near the end of a shot clock.

I don't know, lots of question marks.
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