Let's see how all you Kawakami haters react to this one.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 2:15 pm
The Bucks play much better without their starters.

Example: The Celtics got them down big, but the bench got them back and won it.

All their starters were in the - on the +/- and the bench was all plus. This isn't a rare occurrence they are a legitimately a better team with their bench than they are with their starters.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 3:09 pm
It's hard to say precisely who are their bench players, and who are the starters. I guess the only legit starters are Ellis and Jennings. Then you have guys like Mbah a Moute, Harris, Sanders, Udoh, Dalembert, Ilyasova, Gooden...to me, it looks like they don't know how to distribute minutes among them, and that's why they are suffering. They have more talent than their score shows.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 3:22 pm
It looks to me like a bunch of mediocre guys who are role players on contenders.

Udrih has been their best player this year and Jennings their worst. In terms of production. Ellis is their forth worst player. The Bucks do have some nice young talent, but they need to start over. It's smart they have Jennings on the block and Ellis will likely opt out. This is supposed to be a weak draft class so they can afford to be mediocre this year.

Edit: Also, Dunleavy has been their best player.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 5:46 pm
I think Sanders, Mbah a Moute, and Ilyasova are keepers (even though Ersan has played like crap this year). If you can get a return on anyone besides Sanders, go get a scorer whose around 6'6".

Udoh and Harris are worth a look; they probably don't need Ekpe with the surplus of 4's they have (and is it just me or does he look WAY skinnier than he did with us?).

Everyone else is garbage. Cash out on Ellis, Gooden, Dunleavy, and Udrih. Let someone else overpay for Jennings; he's another Monta Ellis blackhole tweener guard and I'd be shopping him like crazy to anyone right now.

The Bucks are lucky they're in such a bullsh*t conference. They'd be in a race to the bottom out West, but lucky for them 4 god-awful teams a year get into the playoffs in the Leastern Conference.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 6:05 pm
32 wrote:I think Sanders, Mbah a Moute, and Ilyasova are keepers (even though Ersan has played like crap this year). If you can get a return on anyone besides Sanders, go get a scorer whose around 6'6".

Udoh and Harris are worth a look; they probably don't need Ekpe with the surplus of 4's they have (and is it just me or does he look WAY skinnier than he did with us?).

Everyone else is garbage. Cash out on Ellis, Gooden, Dunleavy, and Udrih. Let someone else overpay for Jennings; he's another Monta Ellis blackhole tweener guard and I'd be shopping him like crazy to anyone right now.

The Bucks are lucky they're in such a bullsh*t conference. They'd be in a race to the bottom out West, but lucky for them 4 god-awful teams a year get into the playoffs in the Leastern Conference.



Yep. It's almost infuriating how bad the East plays. In fact, it's worse than we originally thought. The East was supposed to be better than they are now.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 3:12 am
The East lost Dwight, and Bynum hasn't played yet. Still, it's bad when you can feel the difference by changing two players, it's ok when you do that on one team, to make the difference, but when the whole conference is feeling the absence of Dwight, you knot it's real bad. Something needs to change...I cringe when some team with negative score goes to the POs. And even with Dwight, they were far below the West. You can see that not just by how western teams are stronger by comparing scores, but at the All-Star as well. In the West you will have a bunch of players who should be playing at the All-Star game, yet they will miss it, because of the competition. And on the other side, you will have some scrubs playing for the East.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 3:34 am
Sixers are rapidly dropping and are machined gunned by injuries.

I really wanted the Sixers and Pacers to be good. Oh well.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 2:39 pm
Guybrush wrote:The East lost Dwight, and Bynum hasn't played yet. Still, it's bad when you can feel the difference by changing two players, it's ok when you do that on one team, to make the difference, but when the whole conference is feeling the absence of Dwight, you knot it's real bad. Something needs to change...I cringe when some team with negative score goes to the POs. And even with Dwight, they were far below the West. You can see that not just by how western teams are stronger by comparing scores, but at the All-Star as well. In the West you will have a bunch of players who should be playing at the All-Star game, yet they will miss it, because of the competition. And on the other side, you will have some scrubs playing for the East.

Yeah and it truly makes no sense. The East has gotten first shot at A+ talent since 1998, but they still can't compete.

Since Jordan's Bulls disbanded, 11 of the 15 number one overall picks in the draft have been taken by the Eastern Conference. In that same span, 10 of 14 NBA Champions have been Western teams. In fact, since 1983, no Eastern team has won an NBA Title besides Chicago, Boston, Miami, and Detroit; all of whom have recent titles in the post-'97 era.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 3:38 pm
Teams in the East are ran like ****.

There is no other sport where the differences in conferences is this large. In the NFL, the NFC is better right now, but the AFC had the upper hand for a while. But it is never one dominating conference.

In baseball, the talent level in the league is almost exactly the same.

But in basketball, you have teams missing in the west consistently that would be at least a fifth seed if not higher in the East. That's ****ing horrible. I hope Dan Ferry for the Hawks starts running them well because that means more talent in the East and less talent else where.

It would be so dope to see them get either CP3 or Dwight.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 12:05 pm
fullmetalx wrote:I think Monta is a good player. Now his effort and defense was call into question, because he had to guard other big 2 guards that wears him out which he wasn't good at, he puts lots of effort in his offensive abilities, and playing heavy mins. There wasn't any help def or adequate shot blocker or someone to take a charge once he gets beat. He is a better efficient player coming off the bench and playing against bench players. If you put Monta in the starting lineup he should play the Point , have a good wing defender, and shot blocker. His role is best fit to be a supporting player on the right team and coaching staff. He can take pressure off the number one player on a winning team from time to time during the 82 game season. In my opinion Monta never got the front office to get the necessary depth for the team, the coaching staff wasn't a good mix with the team, and there were too many obstacle for the team to function well enough.

The front office thinks Curry is better and is able to play in a team concept and they chose Curry and surrounded him with good depth. There lots of Warriors fans think Curry is much better player than Ellis, because Curry on a winning team right now and Ellis is on a losing team. Both aren't good defenders, but I like Curry ability to shoot better than Ellis and Ellis is better driver to the basketball and create contact. I just think Bucks GM did a bad job in constructing that roster and Scott Skiles is just an ordinary coach who kind of narrow minded in some aspects of basketball. So far everyone happy what Curry doing and what he can do going towards the playoffs for this season and I'm excited of what going to happen going forward with Curry as one of the key players.


I agree, especially with the bolded part, as far as team concept warriors never truly had depth, or the right pieces ever since the we believe era, and the other player that was suppose to be a corner stone Beans never lived up to his contract. Regardless of how horrible we play, I point fingers at Cohan and friends, at Nelly, it was a poorly ran organization, and I know majority agree with me on that.

Alot of times we as fans overlook the structure of an organization, it not accident certain teams are always competing for championships (Ex: Spurs, Lakers, recently OKC). Its about culture, I never thought it was fair to finger point a single player placed on a team with no structure of wrong pieces.

With more impact are teams that are on the bottom, Bobcats, wizards, Queens, we were in that same category not too long ago, those teams mentioned have horrible oraganizations, that don't know how to manage a team, or structure a roster with the proper depth.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 4:07 pm
Monta Ellis never posted a positive ws/48 in his entire tenure of playing. That includes the we believe year. It's not his fault he got the contract, that is ownership. But bad ownership doesn't make him a good player.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 4:24 pm
Blackfoot wrote:Monta Ellis never posted a positive ws/48 in his entire tenure of playing. That includes the we believe year. It's not his fault he got the contract, that is ownership. But bad ownership doesn't make him a good player.


Again thats your opinion, but if you think Bogut has value then you will understand Monta's value. I get you might not like a player, but results don't, if Monta was such a horrible player he would have had no trade value what so ever, but to the alarm of some, he actually did. Thats how know value, is through trades. You can have your opinion but if Monta had no value there would be no Bogut.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 9:52 pm
It's my opinion that he never posted a positive ws/48?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... smo01.html

Career ws/48 was .073.

That's negative value, dude.
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 12:56 pm
Blackfoot wrote:Monta Ellis never posted a positive ws/48 in his entire tenure of playing. That includes the we believe year. It's not his fault he got the contract, that is ownership. But bad ownership doesn't make him a good player.



Not true.
League average is .100
He had .140 in 07-08....

I don't know how that stat is calculated, but it really doesn't seem to tell a whole lot. Win share per 48 minutes? What happnes when you are on a bad team? There aren't very many wins in that case....

Also, notice that D. Green's WS/48 is currently .046.
If we were to follow that logic, D. Green sucks and we shouldn't let him have playing time as he is on a winning team and has way below average WS/48.
But we know from watching games and seeing what he brings, that he has had an important role on this team and people value him.
Just pointing out that this WS/48 doesn't seem like a very good way to evaluate someone's worth.

Also Ellis just earned Eastern Confrence player of the week for the Bucks, so people around the league must value what he brings.
They are not just going to give him that because he puts up empty stats...
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 3:21 pm
GSW Hoops Fan wrote:
Blackfoot wrote:Monta Ellis never posted a positive ws/48 in his entire tenure of playing. That includes the we believe year. It's not his fault he got the contract, that is ownership. But bad ownership doesn't make him a good player.



Not true.
League average is .100
He had .140 in 07-08....

I don't know how that stat is calculated, but it really doesn't seem to tell a whole lot. Win share per 48 minutes? What happnes when you are on a bad team? There aren't very many wins in that case....

Also, notice that D. Green's WS/48 is currently .046.
If we were to follow that logic, D. Green sucks and we shouldn't let him have playing time as he is on a winning team and has way below average WS/48.
But we know from watching games and seeing what he brings, that he has had an important role on this team and people value him.
Just pointing out that this WS/48 doesn't seem like a very good way to evaluate someone's worth.

Also Ellis just earned Eastern Confrence player of the week for the Bucks,so people around the league must value what he brings.
They are not just going to give him that because he puts up empty stats...


First bold, that's fair, he had one positive year.

Second bold, we already know that offense is not something that Green does well. Green makes the defense better, the rebounding better when he is on the floor. He has positive value for other reasons. And bringing that up doesn't make much sense because it's pretty clear what Monta does is try to score. He doesn't do anything else and it's okay to look at him from an offense only perspective. And if you don't want only offense, he is a horrifying train wreck on defense.
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