Ok, I just wrote a long ass reply to this that got lost because the session timed out. Damn waste of time.
SO here is the shortned version:
Your assessment of Monta seems to based on feeling more than fact. We both agree that trading him was good, but I can’t really understand why his game was so under appreciated by a lot of fans. Was it his attitude or lack of speaking ability that got to people. Was it because the mo-ped? Or maybe his signing was seen as the end of the we believe era… totally not his fault that management couldn’t keep that team together. I must point out that there are a lot of fallacies in your argument though.
rockyBeli wrote:I don't know the numbers, but they played in a lot of games together. There's just zero common sense in 2 undersized, low defense players playing side by side, and expecting to not get torched by big SG's like Joe Johnson, Kobe, Iggy, etc.
Actually having 2 undersized guards did not hurt this team defensively. The opposition almost never posted us up, and when they did, it didn’t really work that well. The size really isn’t a factor on the perimeter, speed is. Defensively our team wasn’t good, but it was not because of the size of our guards. It was due to lack of size or shot blocking in the 3, 4 and 5 positions. It was also because of the mental mistakes and sometimes lack of effort/rebounding.
rockyBeli wrote:We had the main pieces of Curry and Lee, who many are saying have a good shot at being all stars this year. Yet no sniff of the playoffs. The depth we have now definitely does help though.
That statement is not accurate. Lets break it down by season:
We draft Curry. He starts the season off the bench for Don Nelson. No David Lee. Ellis misses the last part of the season due to injury. Also, this season would forever known as the D-League brigade where Don Nelson got to be the winingest coach ever coaching a bunch of D-League call ups.
We get D –Lee. Before the season starts Curry hurts ankle in Olympic team. Never really 100% as we all find out he has a glass ankle. Still, we start off the season good until the infamous Carnivorous Wilson Chandler snacks on D. Lees elbow. Yum Yum Yum. To say that this is a good assessment year for Curry Ellis combo with lots of injuries, more d-league call ups, K. Smart coaching is not fair. Will not buy that.
Curry still hurt. Lock out season. No traning camp and a new coach. Ellis is traded ½ through…
So, when did they get the chance to play a squad where all the pieces were there?
rockyBeli wrote:Klay can definitely handle the ball. Probably in a more meaningful way than Ellis too. Ellis would dribble without any real plan for his teammates. He was trying to 'get his'. With Klay, we can see he is looking for his shot but he also sees plays and sees way to set up his teammates for good shots. Monta's basketball IQ is low, therefore he will not see plays others do, etc. I don't think someone can be a very good passer when their BBIQ is low / too impatient to let plays develop. I will 100% say Klay Thompson is a better play maker than Monta Ellis. He makes good, progressive basketball fundamental plays, instead of the 'bailout' passing that Monta would get his assists from. And we weren't winning shi* for 7 yrs with Monta
No way can Klay handle the ball better then Ellis. Klay could not get to the rim like Ellis can. Klay struggles at times to the ball on the floor, but he is getting better at it. Monta could dominate 1 on 1, Klay cannot. Handles = dribbling ability… Monta had Klay beat there by far. Also Ellis could create for himself and for team mates more often and more efficiently then Klay. Look at the numbers. Klay is avg 2.6 AGP and 2 TO PG. Monta 5.6 and 2.9. As far as IQ, come on… Klay’s IQ is not that great.. hence the mess ups against Denver that costs us the game. He has had other lapses all season long. Those will get better with time but I think you are mixing Monta’s actual IQ (probably not that High) with Basketball IQ (pretty decent BBall IQ). I am not saying that he had a huge BBall IQ, but better then Klay, that is for sure. The only think that Klay could do that Ellis couldn’t was spread the floor with 3 point shooting. Which has been sporadic this season. Defensively Ellis could do a better job of shutting some one out, but he was not very consistent.
As for the wins…. Come on, Ellis was here 6.5 years.
Year 1, rookie year. Didn’t get to play that much under Nelson. Was coming out of HS.
Year 2. Came off the bench for We Believe season. Winning Season.
Year 3. Team won 48 games and still didn’t make the playoffs. Most a team has won and not made the playoffs.
Year 4. Mo- Ped accident. Baron Leaves. Team sucks. He only plays 25 games
Year 5. Curry drafted. D-League extravaganza.
Year6. Lee signed, another sub-par year. Curry hurt
Year 7. We float just below 500 until he gets traded.
So if you don’t count his rookie year where he didn’t get to play, he had 5.5 seasons, were 2 of them were winning seasons.
Can’t really say he didn’t win ****.
Again, I think getting rid of Monta was good for 3 reasons:
1) We got a legit Center (who we still haven't seen on the court)
2) His off the court antics were toxic. I like the vibe in the locker room better now.
3) Curry is now the face of the franchise, and he is elevating not only his game, but those around him.
He wouldn't do this while Ellis was there because he felt like Ellis was the leader.
I honestly believe that if we could trade Klay for Ellis (just their games, not their attitude), that we would be a better team right now. And I love Klay on our team. I like what he brings, but Ellis was a better player, no doubt in my mind. All the reasons that Ellis was not good for us were non-basketball related.