regarding the new title - figured I'd condense all my crazy trade ideas ( this one and the ones in the future) into one thread.
I'd sit down, cause this is a big one
yes I know the chances of this actually happening are probably in the fractions of a percent. no I don't really care. Mully if you reading this, don't listen to the haters. just do make it happen.
the teams and their motives:
Milwaukee: doesn't have any financial wiggle room (70M payroll) and are really gunning for the playoffs this year (with Atlanta out). basically they're a team on the rise.
Houston: need big men, BADLY. Yao is coming off an injury, and mutumbo is 42. I'll repeat, he's 42 years old. they have an excess of guards, and god knows, after picking up Artest, they'd like to go farther in the playoffs than the first round.
Oklahoma: least involved in this trade. They have a lot of cap space. we'd have to offer them a first round lottery pick to get them to do it.
And GSW: not going anywhere this year, we'd be really really young(avg age would be less than 22) after the trade, and we have a bunch of projects. this means that we wouldn't really need draft picks next year. this setup gives us good leverage since we could deal away low lottery picks in order to get the right ingredients for next year.
OK so with the trade machine's blessing
coming into the Warriors
Steve Francis - 3rd/4th string back up point guard position filled with an experienced (albeit injured) vet. this would probably just be a temp 1 yr trade. if he works, good, if not he's gone after a year.
Luther Head - switched out for Marco, little bit more proven, great 3pt shooter, not very good D, little bit more athletic but shorter, better PG ability, overall neutral trade.
Shane Battier - this is the big trade. jackson for Battier. its a big "end loaded" 3 year deal replacing a 30 year old for a 29 year old. but there are advantages:
1) Battier would be happy to come off the bench in a couple years unlike jackson. How do I know this? he doesn't play above his talents like jax.
2) Jackson may be "good" at D but Battier is easily one of best defenders in the league. being the best at something will always help a player hold their value. esp someone that can guard a kobe.
3) Jax gives a offensive spark off the bench for houston now, which is exactly what they need to go deep in the playoffs. he'd be their jerry stackhouse.
4) Shane's not a superstar, which means he's not going to be blocking AR when its time for him to shine.
5) He's healthy, athletic, and a great team player who can knock down the three. He'd support the youth but not dominate. perfect.
6) Jackson is from Texas, so's his foundation.
Charlie Villanueva - the poor mans Al Harrington - little taller not as experienced, but same deal - versatile scorer pretty good offensive game. potential is high and right now he's cheap. Going from 9 to 3.5 mill in that position, with the addition of the end of the Foyle buy out clause, and getting rid of steve francis at the end of the year will give us a lot of room to wheel and deal. perhaps get a super legit PG in the next off-season?
quickly the others
Houston: gets one of the best back centers out there (from the bucks) and an offensive weapon.
Get a more proven and better PF, our Marco, a second round draft pick / and an OAK 3rd string center
- Chris Wilcox
- Marco Belinelli
- Mouhamed Sene
- second round draft pick from us?
Gets Offensive power from Al Harrington, a 3rd string PG they need and another first round draft pick and/or Kosta Perovic
-Warriors Lottery pick
-1st round DP
-future 2nd round DP
Stevie "franchise" francis
overall we lose about $1-2Million
this could also work as just a Stephen Jackson for Battier deal
what do you think?
Discuss any moves or trades here, real, rumored, made up, you name it!
Last edited by first off on Wed Sep 03, 2008 11:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Or an easier version would be,
Shane Battier for Stephen Jackson
then at the end of this year, let AH go to free agency and pick up Charlie Villanueva if he's not a restricted FA
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no way the rockets would trade battier for jax straight up. and i think id rather keep harrington than get villanueva. charlie v just doesnt seem to have the heart it takes to be a warrior. he lets criticism get in his head and it affects how he plays in a negative way. being in nellies system would make him think he has the freedom to shoot (which it usually does) but thats not what we would want from him...we would need him to be a banger on the boards. we can get better than villanueva with the money harrington would leave us. besides...we cant just let harrington go to free agency...his contract would have to end, which it doesnt for another 3 years.
"the victorious warrior wins first, and then goes to war; the defeated warrior goes to war first, and hopes to win."- The Art of War
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Stephen Jackson will make Houston a contender.I think the Warriors could get a little more outta the Trade
I thinking 2 or 3 years down the line this trade will make a lot of sense.
sorry this is so scatter-brained.
I think it's pretty safe to say that Artest is a much better version of Battier. why would they need two Defensive minded 3's? what they really need is a descent sub for T-Mac. and like I pointed out, their roster has one injured Center: Yao Ming. this deal would give them a fairly good back up.
like many have argued, "bad boys" of the league never get a descent offer, so even though it seems like a steal for Houston it's not. this is really the best offer available, because it gets rid of a duplicate (Ron/Shane) and adds a weapon... also now they can keep Artest and not have to swallow the increasing contract of Shane (tops at 7+Mill).
SJ may have the heart, but I don't think he has the talent or the basketball IQ to lead the team (no I'm not saying he's dumb in this comment).
also I think the NBA would eat up a story like "two bitter enemies coming together to win a championship". not only would it put that horrible event in the past for good, but it would show that Artest and Jackson aren't monsters, they're mature adults able to move past former beefs because they care so much about winning a championship. the press would love that garbage.
-Can we agree that Luther Head > Marco Belinelli? don't gimme that shiit about "oh we just haven't seen him shine yet". Marco had his chance to wow in practice, and no one is biting. Head is almost 40% from the arc and is way more proven. He'd also be 3rd string along with steve francis.
Harrington has reached his peak. can we all agree to that? I don't see him reinventing himself like Steve Nash in his 30's. he could, but it's very unlikely.
Villanueva has potential. so does Wright. A Villanueva/Wright combo at the 4 sounds like a good combo and it'd be cool to see them battle it out for the starting spot. Nelson system is a pressure free shooting fest, and I think Villa has the talent to succeed if he just gets his mind right. Easier said then done, but you have to admit: taking a chance on a youngin with just the physical tools is better then taking chances on an injured or untalented young player that may be mentally tough. Villa's only entering what his third year? he's def got room to grow.
Oh yeah and Villa's talent level >>>> Marco's
Also the Bucks are a horrible franchise, so I take any performance stats out of Milwaukee with a big grain of salt. I mean his numbers are similar to AH now, and he's 4 years younger, AND he's with the bucks for christ's sake (20th in the league for PPG)!
-I know Francis sucks, and I'm not asking him to be anything more than a 3rd string back up point for ONE year. mainly to help the injured monta situation.
we get rid of Kosta, is that not a plus? addition by subtraction? if nothing else, Charlie could play 3rd string Center backup.
MOST importantly though, 3 out of the four incoming players have a one year contract. I think Head and Villa would fit well. hell even having Francis as a 3rd string over Watson sounds like it might stick. if not though, were not stuck with any major long term deals (beyond Shane). we lose a couple million with this trade, and can put that money towards signing a superstar PG if needed (monta doesn't work), or what ever weak area we have.
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hmm...i think you needa look back, bro...artest and jax were on the pacers together during the brawl. they're good friends and im sure theyd love to be on a team together again.
and i still stand by my statement, that houston wouldnt trade battier for jackson straight up. battier is nearly every coaches dream. high basketball IQ, tough defensive player, can shoot, plays hard. you'd have to sweeten the pot a whole lot more to get battier from houston.
oh yeah woops forgot about that. For some reason I had it in my head that Artest was on Detroit, but that ain't true. hmmm how to sweeten the deal? also apparently OKC is going to be the worst team in the NBA this coming year according to ESPN. not sure if they'd want to trade since they are already a shoe in for a top lotto pick. time to rethink
woot 200th post in 54 Days! go me!
I'd like to thank the warriors for being so kick ass that I just had to join this website. thanks to hobbes the admin and all the moderators. I couldn't have wasted all my free time without you.
I think this makes me a role player?
woot it does! f*ck yeah! screw graduating College, this is what I'm proud of.
first off, congrats on the post count. The impressive thing is that almost all the posts are detailed and well thought out.... not just one liners TRYING to get a a high post count. Well done.
I have not tried to think hard about your original trade in this thread but what I do appreciate is the template you used. WIsh everyone would try to detail what ALL the teams motivation would be for making the proposed deal. Too many times we see proposed trades that are GREAT for the Warriors but why would the other team just bend over and take up the poop chute!
Again, while I have not tried to disect the trade, it was well thought out. Well done.
with GSW sending a 2nd/1st round pick and/or Belinelli
list of Houston's players over 6'8":
luis Scola 6'9"
Donte Green (rookie) 6'11"
Yao Ming 7'6" (coming off an injury)
Chuck Hayes is listed as 6'6" and Ron Artest is 6'7", so I don't know how you can make the claim that they have plenty of big men. 3 men over 2 positions is not much.
my rockets-need-to-win-now reasoning:
-Fans are getting angry for never wining a playoff series (in the TMac Era)
-T-Mac is starting to get old and expensive.
-Yao Ming, like all really big men, has only so much time before his knees are shot.
-Jackson is a little cheaper (2yr deal instead of 3yr), which will help them resign artest.
-In my new trade idea, we'd give them a low second round (or maybe 1st round?) pick. this would help insure they don't surge in 2009 and fizzle in 2010.
trade is a good fit for both because:
-Having shane at his natural 3 would put Maggs at his natural 2. I know nellie likes to switch things up but it's nice to have people who are designed for their position (every position demands slightly different skill sets). Jax and Maggs are both 2s, but we don't have to tell houston that.
-even though I don't think highly of his stats - jax's 20ppg to Bat's 9.3 (as a starter) is a hard stat diff to ignore
-Jackson can create for himself. Shane (or anyone else on the Houston bench) cannot.
-Marco could eventually replace the aging SG Barry(36) as their spot up softie shooter.
-he's a heart and soul player, I don't think anyone can say he didn't try hard last year (tried too hard IMO). If it was Al Harrington being dealt I think you could argue that, but not with jack. I see him coming off the bench and fighting for that starting spot like Stackhouse would in Dallas a few years ago. also he wants to be a leader, and I think he could lead the second team and keep everyone motivated while T-Mac is on the bench.
-I'm not certain of this cause I hate the Kings, but didn't he play Power Forward/Small Forward over there?
-I think a line up of
would be pretty hard to beat, don't you?
-Scola was great last year, but I think Artest is a much better PF or SF than Scola.
-He's one of our best defenders. Rockets are a D-minded team
-Scola or Jackson would give their bench some serious power. exactly what you need when your taking on the LA Fakers weak ass bench (no more Turiaf!). and Chuck Hayes is an undersized backup who can't contribute much on the offensive end. scola off the bench would be nice.
The orig. pick above wouldn't work
- OKC is already going to get a top 3 draft pick and they have lots of cap space. no need to trade with anyone. plus they just moved to a new location (where there's nothing to do) - so they can suck hard, and they'll still probably sell out for the next few years. so I was wrong to add OKC in the trade.
tweaks and updates!
I'll worry about dealing Al later.
For now a relatively simple trade:
Shane Battier (3yr Deal)
Luther Head (1yr deal)
-poss Steve Francis if Marcus sucks and Monta doesn't heal well/sucks at PG (as a last resort back up btw)
Stephen Jackson (2yr deal)
Kosta Perovic (2yr deal)
-low second/1st round pick
what do we think? keep in mind if we got Stevie "Franchise" it'd only be for one season
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