Is This Getting Abit Silly Now?

Talk about anything general in the NBA here.

Moderators: Mr. Crackerz, JREED, Guybrush, hobbes

User avatar
Franchise Player
Posts: 7512
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 2004 2:44 pm
Location: Brighton, England.
Poster Credit: -5
PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 4:17 am
Hey all,

With yet another capable, young enough, NBA contributing player leaving for Europe in Gordon Giricek, I thought it was time to bring this up again.

It seems that every couple of days there is a NBA guy bolting to Europe for the money (please dont debate that, its the money and you guys you know it........but I wont call them greedy bastards for doing so anymore)

Heres the list =

1 - Brandan Jennings

Probably the top prospect in the nation, has elected to play in Italy instead of going to college............is this how it is going to be now? with the NBA's rule of minimum age, will guys in high school who know/think they could possibly play in the NBA if that rule wasnt there, take the money over college experience and education.

This is very alarming to me, and could be the beginning of a horrible trend for basketball players as humans when they get to retirement, having skipped college for a few extra million to start there careers............although what does one year of college do for you anyway? :roll:

2 - Juan Carlos Navarro

Back to Barcelona after a solid season with Memphis, great shooter, could have a played a great role for many teams.............but no-one could/would offer the money he can get in Europe.

3 - Nenad Krstic

Off to Russia after having a great season a couple of yeara ago, then a bad injury hampered his progress and he fell out of the rotation.

Still could do a decent job for many teams.

4 -Primo Brezec

Going to Italy.............not a great player but still is NBA level as a backup big man.

5 - Carlos Delfino

Another 10th man or so but still............and NBA level guy who could contribute when called upon.

6 - Carlos Arroyo

A very capable PG, definately a good backup on most teams and even a starter on some.

7 - Bostjan Nachbar

Never liked him, didnt think he belonged in the league..........but plenty of teams did and didnt do that badly in his time in the NBA.

8 - Jannero Pargo

This one I really dont like, we all know what Pargo can do...........although its good to have one less Warrior killer in the league but come on............no-one wanted this guy??? I think not, just another example of a guy who would be a great pick up for most teams but no-one could match what the Euro teams were offering.

9 - Gordon Giricek

Excellent shooter, and a perfect specialist of the bench to play a Steve Kerr kind of role for many many teams.

10 - Josh Childress

This one reall hurts.............this guys is a serious NBA player, can do a abit of everything and would be welcomed on EVERY team in this league..............the Hawks wanted to keep him but couldnt because they are not allowed to macth an offer on their own player from a Euro team.

Terrible shame, and the one that has really started the trend of contributing NBA players heading overseas.
.
.
.
.
I cant think of anymore but Im sure there are a couple of others................the big thing for me is this ridiculous rule of NBA teams not being ALLOWED to match offers from teams outside the NBA............what kind of crazyness is that? you have an unrestricted free agent, who is YOUR player, and some d*ckhead Euro owner, decides he wants to offer YOUR player a silly amount of money...........AND YOU CANT EVEN MATCH IT!!!??? the decision then is out of the organisations hands and you lose a guy who you didnt want too without any kind of chance to do anything about it or get anything for him.

Dont really know what my point here is as Ive made my case for calling these guys greedy bastards but that was more of a condemnation of society and its take whatever you can get ways..............I just know I dont like seeing the talent pool of the NBA getting thiner and thiner.

The only positive I can see is that it will force teams to take chances of D-League players that wouldnt normally have had the chance...........but hey, if they arent as talented and not able to contribute the things that the departing players would have, then it is a lessening of the talent in our league.

What say you guys about this as a whole and the players that have left?

Ps: My list up there isnt in order of importance or anything, just how they came out of my brain.
User avatar
All Star
Posts: 3069
Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2005 2:32 pm
Location: San Jose
Poster Credit: 0
PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 7:54 am
eh, nobody i feel that bad about losing to europe. As for jennings, who knows, it may be a good thing for these guys to go to europe. It would be bad for the college game, but college basketball sucks to me anyway. except for the tourney. It might speed up the maturation process on some of these guys

Moderator
Posts: 5360
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 10:21 pm
Poster Credit: 21
PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 10:06 am
no one was debating the money part bigs... of course it is for the money... the thing we debated with u about is the fact that NBA fans have been spoiled all these years having this talent. I think it should be the right for a player to maximize his earnings in a career (just like any other job in the world).

I personally dont mind any of them leaving. I wont miss any of them, with the exception of Childress, but I'm not mad he left. I think its good for him (and innovated) to get big bucks for little bang
User avatar
Franchise Player
Posts: 6145
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2007 10:13 am
Location: looking down at the Warriors practice facility
Poster Credit: -7
PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 10:14 am
It does suck to see guys bolt for Europe but I dont agree with you that the NBA should be allowed to match the offers.

First of all, I assume you meant RESTRICTED free agent and not UNRESTRICTED free agents.

Any league outside the NBA is a completely different league or COMPANY. If you are a free agent, you contract has expired. I dont see why the NBA should have the RIGHT to match an offer from a different company.

If you apply that to real life, say I am with a company and for whatever reason my department can pay me the money I want. I search other departments (equate to teams in my comparison) and nobody is willing to pay me the money either. Maybe it is because there is a salary cap essentially in this company that says I cant be paid more than x amount of dollars for my job class.

But now a new company who does not have this salary cap approaches me and offers me 3 times my current salary. I should be free to take this opportunity.

I hear what you are saying is that well the NBA team should be able to match that offer thereby exceeding the cap to do so. The problem with this is that the other leagues dont have the same salary cap rules and regulations as the NBA does. This could lead to a lot of shady practices and circumventing of the rules.

For example teams could approach a European team and say we will pay you $1 million in cash under the table to make an offer to our UFA so that we can match it and the deal could be structured against the CBA (Collective Bargaining Agreement) regulations (ie, bigger max raises, longer terms, etc).

I just dont think you can give NBA teams the right to match contracts that are not subject to the CBA. I am sure shrewd owner will find exploits that change the level playing field.
_____________________________________________________
http://WWW.GOLDENSTATEWARRIORS-RT.COM
User avatar
Franchise Player
Posts: 7512
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 2004 2:44 pm
Location: Brighton, England.
Poster Credit: -5
PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 12:36 pm
bada wrote:It does suck to see guys bolt for Europe but I dont agree with you that the NBA should be allowed to match the offers.

First of all, I assume you meant RESTRICTED free agent and not UNRESTRICTED free agents.

Any league outside the NBA is a completely different league or COMPANY. If you are a free agent, you contract has expired. I dont see why the NBA should have the RIGHT to match an offer from a different company.

If you apply that to real life, say I am with a company and for whatever reason my department can pay me the money I want. I search other departments (equate to teams in my comparison) and nobody is willing to pay me the money either. Maybe it is because there is a salary cap essentially in this company that says I cant be paid more than x amount of dollars for my job class.

But now a new company who does not have this salary cap approaches me and offers me 3 times my current salary. I should be free to take this opportunity.

I hear what you are saying is that well the NBA team should be able to match that offer thereby exceeding the cap to do so. The problem with this is that the other leagues dont have the same salary cap rules and regulations as the NBA does. This could lead to a lot of shady practices and circumventing of the rules.

For example teams could approach a European team and say we will pay you $1 million in cash under the table to make an offer to our UFA so that we can match it and the deal could be structured against the CBA (Collective Bargaining Agreement) regulations (ie, bigger max raises, longer terms, etc).

I just dont think you can give NBA teams the right to match contracts that are not subject to the CBA. I am sure shrewd owner will find exploits that change the level playing field.


Thats an excellent argument (now I know THAT was the point of my post. :mrgreen:).............makes alot of sense.

Ohh and yeah, I meant RESTRICTED free agents..............I just dont see how the team doesnt have a choice even to exceed the cap or luxury tax to keep their own player.

I mean Atlanta offered Childress a deal early on in the summer, supposedly a little above the MLE (about right for a 6th man, in my book) and assumed that as he was restricted, and not many teams had cap space, that he would take it or atleast take the qualifying offer and be an unrestrcited free agent next.

Then, a Euro team, who yes, dont have caps and finanicial restrictions............BUT!!! only because basketball is NOT profitable in Europe, the owners who give out these contracts are doing so out of there own pocket, and most own the teams as a hobby.............so they come along with a ridiculous offer, way above his real value, thus renderring any possibility of matching ridiculous............BUT IT WOULD NICE TO MAKE THAT DECISION YOURSELF!!!.........no?

If I was your boss in that theoretical company Bada, and a rival organisation made a ridiculous bid to triple your salary............then I would atleast want the option to consider matching it to retain you.............and if my organistion is NOT ALLOWED to match such offers, then how is that fair/good business?............well, for the Hawks, I suppose it is good business as they dont have to pay Childress that bloated/stupid amount.

Overall, all Im saying is that the talent pool is getting thiner..............can that be denied?..............and that the amounts of money being thrown at THESE guys is plain ridiculous.
User avatar
Franchise Player
Posts: 6145
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2007 10:13 am
Location: looking down at the Warriors practice facility
Poster Credit: -7
PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 1:11 pm
I definately get your point and it sucks for the NBA teams to not match that.

But at the end of the day, you your league is the superior league, it will win out at the end.

Just like the old days of the USFL in football. When it got going, these owners paid huge dollars to lure people away from the NFL but it did not last.

I think this is more of a trendy thing to do but in the long run the best players will always want to play in the NBA but it SHOULD be a wake up call to the execs of the NBA to say, hey, we have competition... we just cant assume everyone will want to play in our league so we need to make sure we make this the best league it can be.
_____________________________________________________
http://WWW.GOLDENSTATEWARRIORS-RT.COM
User avatar
Hall of Famer
Posts: 18461
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:48 am
Location: Somewhere in this site...
Poster Credit: -4
PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 2:36 pm
bigstrads wrote:Ohh and yeah, I meant RESTRICTED free agents..............I just dont see how the team doesnt have a choice even to exceed the cap or luxury tax to keep their own player.

I mean Atlanta offered Childress a deal early on in the summer, supposedly a little above the MLE (about right for a 6th man, in my book) and assumed that as he was restricted, and not many teams had cap space, that he would take it or atleast take the qualifying offer and be an unrestrcited free agent next.

Then, a Euro team, who yes, dont have caps and finanicial restrictions............BUT!!! only because basketball is NOT profitable in Europe, the owners who give out these contracts are doing so out of there own pocket, and most own the teams as a hobby.............so they come along with a ridiculous offer, way above his real value, thus renderring any possibility of matching ridiculous............BUT IT WOULD NICE TO MAKE THAT DECISION YOURSELF!!!.........no?

If I was your boss in that theoretical company Bada, and a rival organisation made a ridiculous bid to triple your salary............then I would atleast want the option to consider matching it to retain you.............and if my organistion is NOT ALLOWED to match such offers, then how is that fair/good business?............well, for the Hawks, I suppose it is good business as they dont have to pay Childress that bloated/stupid amount.

Overall, all Im saying is that the talent pool is getting thiner..............can that be denied?..............and that the amounts of money being thrown at THESE guys is plain ridiculous.


That's not totally right. I mean, NBA teams cannot match offers from teams that do not belong to the league, because those teams are not limited by the CBA... but Atlanta could have signed Childress to the same contract he signed in Greece. Keep in mind that having Bird rights over a certain player (like they had over Childress) allows the team to sign him even if it means going over the cap.

It wasn't because they couldn't. It was because they didn't want. Or he didn't want to stay a Hawk. In either case, it wasn't as simple as not being able to match.
User avatar
Franchise Player
Posts: 7512
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 2004 2:44 pm
Location: Brighton, England.
Poster Credit: -5
PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 2:57 pm
TMC wrote:
bigstrads wrote:Ohh and yeah, I meant RESTRICTED free agents..............I just dont see how the team doesnt have a choice even to exceed the cap or luxury tax to keep their own player.

I mean Atlanta offered Childress a deal early on in the summer, supposedly a little above the MLE (about right for a 6th man, in my book) and assumed that as he was restricted, and not many teams had cap space, that he would take it or atleast take the qualifying offer and be an unrestrcited free agent next.

Then, a Euro team, who yes, dont have caps and finanicial restrictions............BUT!!! only because basketball is NOT profitable in Europe, the owners who give out these contracts are doing so out of there own pocket, and most own the teams as a hobby.............so they come along with a ridiculous offer, way above his real value, thus renderring any possibility of matching ridiculous............BUT IT WOULD NICE TO MAKE THAT DECISION YOURSELF!!!.........no?

If I was your boss in that theoretical company Bada, and a rival organisation made a ridiculous bid to triple your salary............then I would atleast want the option to consider matching it to retain you.............and if my organistion is NOT ALLOWED to match such offers, then how is that fair/good business?............well, for the Hawks, I suppose it is good business as they dont have to pay Childress that bloated/stupid amount.

Overall, all Im saying is that the talent pool is getting thiner..............can that be denied?..............and that the amounts of money being thrown at THESE guys is plain ridiculous.


That's not totally right. I mean, NBA teams cannot match offers from teams that do not belong to the league, because those teams are not limited by the CBA... but Atlanta could have signed Childress to the same contract he signed in Greece. Keep in mind that having Bird rights over a certain player (like they had over Childress) allows the team to sign him even if it means going over the cap.

It wasn't because they couldn't. It was because they didn't want. Or he didn't want to stay a Hawk. In either case, it wasn't as simple as not being able to match.


Of course man but my point was to say that no-one in their right mind would offer Childress what the Greek team offered him, and that IF Atlanta wanted to match that ridiculous offer (having realised that they have been out foxed) they were not even allowed to consider doing so.

Atlanta offered him around 7 mil or so, which is more than fair for a 6th man and I suppose didnt think that it was a possibility of a Euro team offering stupid/un-matchable amounts would come in............and even if it did, they may have assumed that Childress would want to stay where the competition and respect is.

Atlanta dropped the ball yes, by not offering him the same exact money that the Greek team did???............no.

I think this is going to happen ALOT with the mid-level players, who feel they deserve more but no-one is stupid enough to pay them susperstar salaries..............so they bolt for there un-deserved superstar money. :roll:
User avatar
Franchise Player
Posts: 9202
Joined: Mon Aug 14, 2006 11:07 pm
Location: Land of the Lacob.
Poster Credit: 0
PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 4:57 pm
It seems to me that teams rather gear up for the 2010 "prize free agency" off season, than spend now. If it's not that reason, it's obviously because they don't have the money. Not many teams had cap room this past off season.
Don't hate yourself in the morning... sleep 'til noon.
User avatar
All Star
Posts: 1770
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2007 4:59 pm
Location: oakland
Poster Credit: 3
PostPosted: Wed Aug 20, 2008 7:17 pm
once they get homesick(from USA)...they will go back home...

like this song...

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fDQnkYwfNfk[/youtube]
Image
User avatar
Hall of Famer
Posts: 18461
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:48 am
Location: Somewhere in this site...
Poster Credit: -4
PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 7:49 am
bigstrads wrote:Of course man but my point was to say that no-one in their right mind would offer Childress what the Greek team offered him, and that IF Atlanta wanted to match that ridiculous offer (having realised that they have been out foxed) they were not even allowed to consider doing so.


Well, technically, they had no chance to match, but I'm pretty sure they were given that chance. I mean, after getting that offer from the Greek team, I'm pretty sure his agent went to the Hawks GM with it. And he would have stayed a Hawk for the same amount.

That... or either he hates the Hawks, in which case I can see his point of getting away from a slavement-like system, that it's pretty similar to the franchise tag of the NFL.

Actually, I'd get rid of the restricted free agent label. That would be enough to avoid situations like this one, because players could choose where to sign from several suitors, and not just the offer from the team that has their rights.
User avatar
Role Player
Posts: 230
Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2008 8:27 pm
Location: Dixon
Poster Credit: 0
PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:42 pm
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=A ... &type=lgns

Pargo to Russia. It's a week old, but I just noticed it today.

Nice player off the bench. He had a good game against the Warriors late in the year. Obviously the money meant more than a potential championship run.

I don't blame the guys for taking the money, but if I was a Hornets fan, I'd be pissed.
User avatar
Franchise Player
Posts: 7512
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 2004 2:44 pm
Location: Brighton, England.
Poster Credit: -5
PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 2:13 pm
Linc Mob wrote:http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_ylt=Agm_2DPebTkj4hAtGECxgw.8vLYF?slug=aw-pargo081508&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

Pargo to Russia. It's a week old, but I just noticed it today.

Nice player off the bench. He had a good game against the Warriors late in the year. Obviously the money meant more than a potential championship run.

I don't blame the guys for taking the money, but if I was a Hornets fan, I'd be pissed.


Got him bud, hes number 8 up there. :wink:

Definately one that shouldnt have gone. :roll:
User avatar
Role Player
Posts: 230
Joined: Thu Jul 10, 2008 8:27 pm
Location: Dixon
Poster Credit: 0
PostPosted: Thu Aug 21, 2008 2:16 pm
My blindness was caused by a pulled pork sandwich from Kinder's.

My mistake. :oops: :notworthy:
User avatar
Franchise Player
Posts: 7512
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 2004 2:44 pm
Location: Brighton, England.
Poster Credit: -5
PostPosted: Sat Aug 23, 2008 10:08 am
Linc Mob wrote:My blindness was caused by a pulled pork sandwich from Kinder's.

My mistake. :oops: :notworthy:


Mmmmm, sounds worth it!!! :mrgreen:

Also, I knew Id forgot someone!!!............one of our old boys =

Earl Boykins off to Italy.
Next

Return to NBA Forum

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest