Gutsy Trades

Discuss any moves or trades here, real, rumored, made up, you name it!

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 11:01 am
So far this Summer, I'd grade all the moves by Mullin as a C-. Giving a player like Maggette $7.5M a year, who doesn't make this team much better, was just a bad move. I like Turiaf and he adds much needed bulk to a front court made up of chopsticks like Wright, Biedrins, and Randolph. The only move that I really like is for Marcus Wiliams. I was an advocate of the Warriors drafting him two years ago instead of Patrick O'Bryant and feels that if he can get over his history of attitude issues, he could become a very productive NBA point guard. He's has a chance to become a Deron Williams type guard.

(1) You take the $12M that they gave to both Maggette and Turiaf, then you have Josh Smith. If the Warriors were to put an offer sheet of 5 years and $65M, I highly doubt that Atlanta would of matched it. They invested the #3 overall pick and a good amount of money to Marvin Williams, who plays the same position.

(2) This is where it would really take some guts because everyone is so enamored by Monta Ellis, but to tell you the truth, I'm not. They're going to pay this guy $12M a year not knowing what position he's going to play. Thats an awful lot of money to give a guy with so many questions marks. He doesn't have the ball handling or passing skills to become a great point guard and he doesn't have the size or defense to become a great shooting guard. Why pay someone that kind of money if you know that he can't guard his position? He's quick, athletic and has a nice mid-range game. That hardly screams out $12M a year. Not only that, if this team doesn't win in 2 years, he's going to demand to be traded because of his ego and desire to play in a bigger market..like New York. They should get on the phone and discuss a sign and trade with Philly for Andre Iguodala. Iguodala will benefit being in an uptempo system while Philly fans a player that they'd want in Ellis. At this points, Ellis' value is a tad higher than Iguodala.

(3) Send Harrington to the Cavaliers for Anderson Varejao and Aleksander Pavlovic. This is a trade that would that would benefit both teams.

(4) Send Stephen Jackson and Marco Belinelli to the Raptors for Andrea Bargnani, Joey Graham, and Jamario Moon. Imagine a Eastern line up of Calderon, Belinelli, Jackson, Bosh and O'Neal. A team that can contend with the best of them in the East.


The Line up:

PG Williams - Watson
SG Iguodala - Pavlovic
SF Smith - Randolph - Moon
PF Wright - Bargnani
C Biedrins - Varejao - Hendrix

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 11:14 am
hmmm strong opinions there B.A.H.

I would grade Mullin this offseason a B (but in 2 years it can be an A). Now I think at times members in the board can fo overboard for the love of certain players (AKA Azubuike), but monta ellis is not overrated. The kid can flat out play. It doesnt matter what position he plays or not, when a guy can play ball, thats all that matters Long Term deal for monta is worth it.

Now i personally would of perfer mullin going for the gold this season, rather then the build up approach he is doing. I would of want a sign and trade of Baron for a couple solild vets (ala Billups and Wallace, and become contenders this year). But i praise him for thinking short term and long term with this club (I wrote a fire mullin thread a couple months earlier, that was premature in my part.)

The bench looks strong for this club, though are starters as a whole might be just average. But the potential for Ellis, Biedrin still high. We have plenty of youth teameven if half become busts, one or two can still become stars. Turiaf brings size, marcus is a pure PG and still young and can go higher.

I like are look. for this season, and the future.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 1:20 pm
Hey there BayAreaHoopz...

BayAreaHoopz wrote:So far this Summer, I'd grade all the moves by Mullin as a C-. Giving a player like Maggette $7.5M a year, who doesn't make this team much better, was just a bad move.


I think you are underestimating Maggs. While not a tier 1 superstar, this guy is a legit scorer and rebounder. Also gives us an element that we dont have and that is someone who can get to the line at will late in games if we are struggling to get points.


(
BayAreaHoopz wrote:1) You take the $12M that they gave to both Maggette and Turiaf, then you have Josh Smith. If the Warriors were to put an offer sheet of 5 years and $65M, I highly doubt that Atlanta would of matched it. They invested the #3 overall pick and a good amount of money to Marvin Williams, who plays the same position.


I think that is overly simplistic to say the we offer 12 million for smith, he is ours. Not a chance Atl does not match that. There is a reason why a 22 year old, on the verge of stardom PF has not received ONE offer yet... it is because executives around the league know Atl will match that sort of offer and they dont want to handcuff their cap room. If we made that offer to Smith, we would have lost out on the opportunity to acquire Maggs, Turiaf, etc and STILL would not have ended up with Smith.

Believe me, if we had come out of this offseason with Smith however we did it, I would have loved that. But him being a RESTRICTED FA really complicated things.

BayAreaHoopz wrote:(2) This is where it would really take some guts because everyone is so enamored by Monta Ellis, but to tell you the truth, I'm not. They're going to pay this guy $12M a year not knowing what position he's going to play. Thats an awful lot of money to give a guy with so many questions marks. He doesn't have the ball handling or passing skills to become a great point guard and he doesn't have the size or defense to become a great shooting guard. Why pay someone that kind of money if you know that he can't guard his position? He's quick, athletic and has a nice mid-range game. That hardly screams out $12M a year. Not only that, if this team doesn't win in 2 years, he's going to demand to be traded because of his ego and desire to play in a bigger market..like New York. They should get on the phone and discuss a sign and trade with Philly for Andre Iguodala. Iguodala will benefit being in an uptempo system while Philly fans a player that they'd want in Ellis. At this points, Ellis' value is a tad higher than Iguodala.
I agree with you to a point here. I am very concerned about paying Monta this type of money. I just dont know if he is that type of player.

BayAreaHoopz wrote:(3) Send Harrington to the Cavaliers for Anderson Varejao and Aleksander Pavlovic. This is a trade that would that would benefit both teams.
We have our Varejao in Turiaf. While not as good of rebounder, he is better offensively and as good if not better defender.

BayAreaHoopz wrote:(4) Send Stephen Jackson and Marco Belinelli to the Raptors for Andrea Bargnani, Joey Graham, and Jamario Moon. Imagine a Eastern line up of Calderon, Belinelli, Jackson, Bosh and O'Neal. A team that can contend with the best of them in the East.

No chance Raptors do that and not even sure that helps us. But I AM of the opinion that Belinelli will never be a starter in this league and will never be anything more than a situational role player.


But I like the outside the box thinking. I do wish we could have ended up with Smith but I am happy with the way things have turned out as an alternative.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 1:50 pm
I like that all of these trades that he suggested seemed logical, too. They seemed to work both ways.
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 10:29 pm
time to poke some holes in some arguments(':mrgreen:')

Josh Smith will never leave ATL this year.the guy above me had it right.

Keep Ellis... yeah hes not tall, but neither is Iverson. Monta has a long way to go to get to Iverson's level, but he has the god given talent to get there. And I think he is a hard worker with a small ego (member his MIP award) - I mean for a man with his talent, aren't you impressed he doesn't jack up three's left and right like the rest of our team? He just doesn't KNOW how to defend because no ones ever forced him to be a good defensive player. the man scored 72 f'ing points in a high school game - you think anyone gave a damn if he got in a defensive stance after he was done wowing the crowd and scouts on the other end? hell no! and fvck if anyone in Oakland has ever taught him anything.
As much as I like a Defensively minded team, how many NBA All-Star guards really play great D? I'm outraged that kobe got second team last year cause he really didn't deserve it. and I'm not the only one. I've heard pundits say the same thing.
If Ellis ever develops a three point shot (and with a mid-range stroke as solid as his who's to say he won't?)... watch out man. Although I agree we need to at least figure out his position by the end of next year. every year this goes on is another year we can't figure out the perfect roster.

Varejao < Al Harrington (as much as I want Al to leave) and we really don't need another shooting guard in Sasha Pavlovic (esp since he's over-rated).

we need to keep jackson as a leader. without him the team has no captain/veteran to steer us in the right direction.

I agree with you that Bellenelli is never going to be a star - people here need to get off his stun (backwards) and realize that summer league doesn't mean diddly.

Wright isn't ready to take over the PF position. Unless ur ready for a really bad rebuilding season. and I don't think anyone is ready for that after building up so much momentum the past couple of years.

I think Maggette will really shine in blue and gold. just like Paul Pierce wasn't a truely big name until he got some help, Maggs will finally have some legit teammates. maybe five years is a little extreme however its still a good move. :mrgreen:
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 1:51 am
I believe Monta Ellis is worth about 11 million a year, he is very talented and what he did last season, at a young age as well, showed that he is a star. Thing with Monta is, is he a PG or SG. I believe he is more of a SG and the plan this season, as has been said, is to have him as the starting PG and that is not the way to go I believe. Worth that money he is and some other team would have paid that if they could have.

Azu is a good keep and worth 3 million IF he gets at least 15mins of court time a game. He is solid at pretty much everything fits Nelson's system well. He has proven he can play pretty well and with Pietrus leaving, he should get most of his minutes.

Maggette is probably the signing I like least but to be fair, Mullin probably wouldn't have landed any other good player via free agency and so going straight for Maggette early was understandable. What I think is not so easy to understand is the amount of money and years of the contract. 10 milliom a year and for 5 years is too much for a player who has shown he is alstar typ but is INJURYPRONE. It won't be a surprise if Maggette only plays 40-50 games this season, because that has happened with him a few times in his career. I reckon Mullin could have gotten him for 8 million a year for 3 or 4 years, an ideal enough contract.

Turiaf fills a need somewhat, having size and strength, as well as being a good shotblocker. Don't think he is worth 4 million, more like 3 million, but Mullin really wanted him and gave just a little bit more, knowing the Lakers had quite a few big guys that would play ahead of Turiaf. That's also the thing, if the Lakers had Gasol, Bynum, Mihm etc., Mullin should have offered 3 million a year and seen if Turiaf bite on that. I understand Mullin wanted to get some talent and stability after Baron left and he did that by getting Turiaf but maybe he could have done it slightly better on that deal.

Evans is signed for 2 million a year I believe, not sure how many years right now but will find out soon. That guy can shoot the ball and do many things pretty well, nothing spectacular but pretty good. I think a good signing that is pretty good value and allows the team to continue the run and gun with a fair few outside shooters that make spacing the floor easier.

Marcus Williams is my biggest hope right now for the guys signed this offseason. I really think he is good enough to be the starting PG as soon as December, he has shown in stints in his short career that he can be a very good PG. This guy can pass, penetrate and shoot very well and was acquired quite cheaply and is not paid much either. Could be a keeper for many years if all pans out.

Biedrins likely will be signed soon as well and likely for around what Monta signed for, probably a decent contract and proper valued.


Mullin had it hard once Baron left but transitioned quite well, drafting two good players with potential and keeping players that contribute well AND will likely only get better, in Monta and Azu, as well as getting talented players that fit needs, in Turiaf, MWilliams and Evans, and lastly got a talented player who might or might not fit in and might or might not take away from the other players on the team, in Maggette. The players that left were Baron, Pietrus, O'bryant, Barnes and likely Croshere, can't think of anybody else. Croshere, at the price he was getting paid, would be a good keeper but the other guys were pretty expendable and replaced pretty well.

The team has every position covered, some probably too covered but to me, PG is still an issue and I believe the best answer will be Marcus Williams and not Monta, of the players on the roster right now. PG is essential, as that is the position that controls most of what happens for a team on the court and right now it is insecure and a big unknown for the team
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