32's Two Minute Ramble: Miami Heat

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What Do You Think Of Player's Review?

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 1:24 pm
Miami Heat

Where They've Come From...

The Heat get a straight C. Here's why: Alonzo Mourning & Tim Hardaway didn't pull this team to the top themsevles; they had a very decent supporting cast that seemed to disappear in a cloud of smoke overtime. I'm also biased against Pat Riley because I think he's a vulterous vampire who's trying to pretend that the Heat's modern success is totally because of his "genius" when, in fact, he's the one who f*cked them up to begin with! A good team got broken down, then rebuilded to exactly where they were at before. Nothing special.

C

Where They Are...

Now this is something worth praising. Stan Van Gundy let Dwayne Wade play his entire rookie season... the result was a fast development for what has become one of the league's premier guards. Wade is a stud for Miami; probably meaning about as much to the Heat as Stoudamire does to the Suns (Heat... Suns... pattern?). Combine Flash with what is STILL the most dominating force in the game today, Shaquille O'Neal, and you've got an instant winner. Everything beyond that becomes questionable. I'm buying the team and here's why: Gary Payton on the bench becomes an immediate advantage for Miami; he can play both PG for his passing and SG for his shooting. He's a mature, league-proven veteran who's main focus these past few years has been nothing but winning. A great teacher for Jason Williams; who's off-court antics have calmed, somewhat, since his days in Sac-Town. Williams, though a constant shooter, has become an assist-grabbing weapon for whatever team he plays for. His mind for playmaking is nearly unmatched in the league and it will show once he has some decent talent around him. James Posey will also do nothing but help; his outside touch is a perfect compliment to Shaquille O'Neal's double-teamed inside game. The only true question mark is Antoine Walker, who has trouble accepting a lesser role on teams with better players. Their bench features talent such as Alonzo Mourning, Haslem, and Posey. I'm buying the Miami Heat because Shaq and GP were on the '04 Lakers and know that egos getting in the way are the only thing that can stop an all-star team. With Shaq at the helm, making sure everyone's egos stay in line, look for Miami to be holding up the trophy in late May to early June.

A+

Where They're Going...

Here's how you know it's a Pat Riley team; established stars looking for a ring run this team. By the time Hardaway got here back in '98, his knees were already gone. Zo's earlier days in Charlotte had passed him, as well. The team was only set for 2 or 3 years before age caught up to them. Looking at the current roster (featuring Mourning, O'Neal, Walker, and even Williams/Posey), Miami's dynasty can never truly take off because their strong starting lineup is either going to slow down heavily or retire in the next 5 years. Dwayne Wade and Udonis Haslem appear to be the only puzzle pieces to Miami's future. Everybody else is hitting their twilight years (if they haven't already) in the next 2 or 3 years. Miami, long term, is not a wise bet to make.

C+
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2005 1:53 pm
I don't completely agree with this one. Miami's been a good team for most of the past decade, and Riley was/is a good coach (just that, I'm not getting into any other considrations). It wasn't his fault the disease Mourning got, which was the real reason to dismember that team. He did the right thing.

About their future, the have several good years before them, and have some young talent to build around later on, not only Wade. Im talking about Wayne Simien & Dorrell Wright (sp?).

And about their present, you're right on (almost) everthing. I'm not so high on Williams. He's not a good defender (Payton can do that, tho) and his shooting selection is doubtful at best. But I agree with most of your analysis.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 7:39 am
I think some of it is mostly accurate but Pat Riley did do alot of reconstruction of the Miami Heats, if it weren't for him; the heats wouldnt be here today. But I think they're currently not an "A+" more of a A-. They're players seem great right? but come on, JWill and AWalk are both highely overrated players and Gary Payton is far pass his prime and I won't see Payton and Williams being roombuddies of teacher/student anytime soon.

I think the only two legit stars on the team is still Shaq and Wade. The new supporting cast for the two stars are just going to be distractions. Walker, Williams, and Payton all have huge egos, you have to remember that. HUGE egos. Will they be bothered by playing time? damn sure they will. I think payton will be the most mature out of the cast cuz he has already proved himself, but Wills and Walker still have another good 8 years in them and they're going to finish this season and next season and get shipped out. So, where I'm going at is...the Miami Heat is a highly overrated team. I'll say it first, when a legitimante team like San Antonio come...heats will fall..

so yeah i agree with your future of miami.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2005 10:15 am
I dunno, BTT... when Shaq's looking to hang a banner in an arena, very few things can stop him. Unless his ankle goes out, I'm picking Miami. Williams, Walker, Payton, and Mourning have all resigned themselves to the fact that, if they want to win, they need to swallow their "star" titles and become (exactly what you said) a supporting cast. If they make the transition, it will be the best team in the league (yes, better than Detroit or San Antonio). I expect Walker to get a little steamed, but I also expect Payton and Shaq to just point at a "Lakers 2004" poster with Karl, Kobe, Shaq, and GP... and just remind the youngsters of what happens when you're more concerned with personal success than winning an actual ring. The problem with the 04 Lakers was that EVERY player wanted to be known as "the guy who led the Lakers to the Title!" The Heat can't have that sort of nonsense. Hopefully, after teams like the Pistons, Spurs, and Pacers are continually in the Finals, Miami realizes that truly the best TEAM will win, not the one with the best players. Here's why I'm picking Miami:

*************************************************************

Shaq vs. Duncan... I still think O'Neal's got it in him to dominate Duncan's Spurs during a 7-game series... during the regular season, it may not be true because Duncan's younger and can play harder everynight, but when the trophy is sitting on the table, Shaq can still outdo any center in the league. Period.

JWilliams is a better playmaker than Tony Parker. Parker is a scorer, assist getting, defender sort of guard. With an all-star cast, White Chocolate could come out looking like Steve Nash. Williams thrives when there are big names to throw the ball to. Imagine the great time he'll have running with Dwayne Wade, Shaq, and Walker?

Dwayne Wade is gonna dominate Manu Ginobli, no question there. This isn't even an issue. Ginobli can come up big, but not as big as Wade on a regular basis.

The Spurs got Bowen playin D on the Miami small forward: James Posey, who's gonna be sitting out at the arc all day. Bowen's D is taken out of the picture and Posey (the most useless player in the starting lineup) can just knock down open three's when Bruce leaves. Good situation to be in.

Robert Horry or Nazr Mohammad are gonna get raped by Antoine Walker. Don't be mistaken and talk about how "Big Shot Rob" is gonna compete with Toine's legs; Horry's 35, and his legs are going on 80. Sure, he'll knock down the jumper with the game on the line. But during the other 47 minutes, he can't keep up with the younger Walker anymore.

Then we come to the bench, were most people are gonna slobber all over Brent Barry (34), Tony Massenburg (37), Glenn Robinson (32), Michael Finley, and Nick Van Exel. Sure, it sounds good (on the outside). But then take a gander over at Miami's bench, which features playoff stud Alonzo Mourning, Gary Payton, Udonis Haslem, Dorell Wright, and Wayne Simien (the rook). It'll come down to the new backcourt in SA vs. Mourning & Payton... at which point I'd take Mourning in the playoffs over any of them. Miami's bench can go toe-to-toe with San Antonio's.

Miami in 7, so sayeth the Player
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2005 2:52 am
Unless his ankle goes out, I'm picking Miami.


You Jinxed him. Thanks! :D :D
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2005 7:17 am
JWilliams is a phony and he is showing that thus far! Wade has to play the passer as well as scorer because noone else on that team can guide them, even Payton so far.

Miami has everything to prove and the Spurs are proven! I can't see the Heat staying with the Spurs over a 7 game series. The Spurs grind it out and the Heat rely alot on trying to make the outside shot. The spurs execute better than anyone and they get it done as a team offensively and especially defensively! No team, except maybe the Pistons, can compare themselves to the Spurs with any real justification! The Spurs have talent and experience and nothing beats that!


Back to Back and 3 in 4 years!
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migya make the ring fall on ya
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2005 9:18 am
migya wrote:JWilliams is a phony and he is showing that thus far! Wade has to play the passer as well as scorer because noone else on that team can guide them, even Payton so far.

:shock: What game were YOU watching??? Payton did a stellar job coming into the game (that's probably why they kept him on the floor the entire 4th quarter). Jason's still adjusting to the offense, but he's not being nearly as flashy or self-centered as everyone was afraid of. Besides, Wade's passing is a luxery of the Heat now, not a needed part of their game. JWill and GP did fine against the Pacers (and if Shaq didn't go down, they'd have won that game... and I wouldn't be TIED for first in my fantasy league... I'd have it!).

I dunno, migya, I have a feeling you'd take this Spurs team over the Showtime Lakers. I'm sensing a tad of a biased towards them. Everytime you refer to "the perfect team", you always use San Antonio as an example and, the truth is, they're not perfect. They don't have a true playmaker on their team (Tony Parker's good; but he's a Derek Fisher-style player), their team is aging fast (Horry, Massenburg, Barry, Big Dog, and, now, Van Exel), and this season they have just as much reason to be worried about having too many stars as Miami (you REALLY think Finley's gonna sit the entire season? I'm guessing he'll take the starter halfway through the regular and Ginobli will throw a fit... and then there's Van Exel... *shudder*). San Antonio is currently on top of the pile in the NBA (and they'll be a good team for the next 3 or 4 years), but we're watching a game where a nobody one day could seriously take the ring next year. For 6 years, it was pretty much set that the Bulls were taking the title again. Now there's no Dynasty. There's no Michael. Everything is fair game in basketball. And I'm not counting Miami's team out until the final buzzer.
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2005 7:27 pm
The spurs have players who are happy with their roles - Including Nick and Finley! finley will be very hapy as he is searching for a winning team that can get him a ring. VExel is more of a mystery but he is out the door if he starts trouble! He was happy when he was in the Mavs and he too wants to win!

The Heat have at least two guys who are notorious for starting some trouble - Walker and JWilliams! Both like shooting and both have to take a back seat on this team.

There is far more chance of the Heat having problems than the Spurs.

The nba is not so wide open because the Spurs have always been at or near the top for the last 7 years. They are still the best and they have all the tools to keep winning for years to come. Parker and Ginobili are young and will get better than what they already are. Horry might leave soon but a guy like that argentinian Fabricio will likely step up and do what Horry does. The Spurs do the best job at getting pieces that fit and they have transitioned beautifully. They moved on from the days of Avery, Elliott and David to the days of Parker and Ginobili. Duncan is the only constant.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 11:21 am
I'm not discounting the Spurs; I'm saying nothing is certain. The Spurs are the easy pick to make for the NBA title, but last year the easy pick was Detroit. It's always the defending champs; no one wants to make bold predictions about another team rising.

I'd say Van Exel and Williams are the two biggest trouble-makers. Williams, just because he's a troubled child who shoots too much and thinks he's black because African-Americans call him "white chocolate". Van Exel seems like a far worse situation. True, he really boils over when his team is on the losing end, but you can't deny that the LA Lakers were always an upper tier team with Shaquille on the floor... and he clashed with Dell Harris repeatedly! Who knows what'll happen if he doesn't take kindly to Poppovich. Bad intentions is all I'm saying.

I'm not buying Finley "accepting his role" as a backup; I think that's a Spurs story fed to the media. Michael's gonna work his ass off to seem better than Ginobli and, before long, San Antonio's gonna have a Dunleavy vs Pietrus situation on their hands, but on a larger scale. Finley is still a better player, bottom line. If Greg starts him, Ginobli's spitting venom. It's not a perfect match.

Every year, more and more teams make runs at the NBA title. Last year, Phoenix could have made it. Indiana's been there. Detroit. Miami. Dallas. TONS of teams are all gunning for the trophy. San Antonio has a huge share of problems and are not good enough to be considered a Dynasty. They're lucky to have been thrown together in this post-Jordan, non-Dynasty era where the ring is fair game at all times because, honestly, if there was a perfect team out there (a Jordan-style Bulls, or a Magic-caliber Lakers, a Bird-esque Celtics squad, or those Bad Boys Pistons), the Spurs wouldn't stand a chance. Honest truth. They get the wins because they're on top of the pile right now, but the pile hasn't been stacked too high yet.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2005 1:23 pm
Finley's not going to be a problem for the Spurs, he'll play like Pietrus does for us, sharing time at the 2 and 3 positions. Bowen will the one who will lose most minutes to him.

And that means Brent Barry won't play at all, when the game's on the line...
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 5:57 am
The Spurs did not get to where they are by being lucky! They have been formed amazingly and Pop elevated himself to master team creator with the way he got Parker and Ginobili and made Bowen, Nestrovic and Mohammed into integral pieces of the team. Popovich has made a team that runs better than any team since the Jordan Bulls!

I would put this Spurs team against any other in history! That includes Jordan's Bulls! The Spurs play well as a team and they have great individual players in Duncan, Parker, Ginobili and now Finley. this team is not easy to beat, especially 4 times in a series!

I say it how it is and the Spurs team, though not my favourite team, are the real deal and they are the best until they are beaten for the championship!
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 7:54 am
migya wrote:I would put this Spurs team against any other in history! That includes Jordan's Bulls!


That may be too much. These Spurs are a great team, but better than the 72 wins team of Jordan's Bulls?, maybe player by player, but as a team it's not at that level yet. They haven't won back to back titles yet.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 9:18 am
migya wrote:I would put this Spurs team against any other in history! That includes Jordan's Bulls!

Eh, these Spurs probably couldn't take the Shaq & Kobe Lakers from a few years ago; lets not go overboard and start comparing them to Jordan's unstoppaBulls. Like I said, the Spurs are the best in the NBA... at the moment. But their title is always threatened by the Pistons (it's not a given championship). If you were watching basketball in the Jordan Era (like I was), you'd know that the season pretty much was a big puppet show because everyone and their mother knew that the Chicago Bulls were taking the ring again unless something freakish in nature happened to Michael Jordan. That is totally not the case with the Spurs. They are the defending champs... but they're not the unanimously undefeated champions.

The Spurs aren't even on my first page of great teams in NBA history (at least, not THESE Spurs... the one with D-Rob & Duncan is on there). But the sad truth is that the NBA has no dynasty right now and the Spurs have just had the good fortune of being in the right place at the right time. Their not the best team-playing franchise (that goes to the Pistons), they don't have the most stars (a tag that goes on Miami), they don't have the league's most dominant player (he's also on Miami), they don't have the best coach in the league (he's coaching the Knicks now), and they haven't won 3 straight (the truest sign of an NBA dynasty). The Spurs are incredibly mediocre; they're unbelievably average. Ginobli, Parker, Horry, Barry, Bowen... they're all good players, but none of them are great players (closest of which being Horry). They're all around average... maybe a tad above average. Duncan is their only star (and he's still not a Top 5 player in the league... which goes to LeBron, KG, Shaq, Kobe, and AI). It's unfortunate, but it's true; as much as SI and the NBA tries to hype NBA playoffs and the NBA champions every year, the Spurs are simply lucky to be where they're at. They're consistently healthy, they're incredibly average (meaning they don't have many players who fall below-average), and they have one of the Top 3 centers in the league (big men are a rare commodity). Very fortunate franchise.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 9:33 am
#32 wrote:Duncan is their only star (and he's still not a Top 5 player in the league... which goes to LeBron, KG, Shaq, Kobe, and AI).


You think Duncan is not top 5?, I wouldn't pick any inside player above him right now, and certainly not KG... In fact, I'm having a hard time picking 5 better players overall than him...
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 10:06 am
Yes, there's a huge difference when it comes to Fantasy NBA and actual playing. Shaq is still the league's most dominant player, so I'm taking him #1 for a franchise this year (though age will get him in 2 or 3 seasons), LeBron is clearly the best player in the league now (no question), Kobe's been scoring his ass off with Phil back (plus he's motivated), AI has upped his assists to a career high (while maintaining the league's scoring title), and KG is gonna bounce back (don't worry, he'll make the playoffs this year... or he'll commit suicide. Winning's THAT important to him). Hell, I'd even put Dirk ahead of Duncan at the #6 spot. The guy single handedly carried Dallas. If Amare was still healthy, Duncan'd get the 8th seed... but, with Stoudamire's knee injury, Tim slides in as the league's 7th best player at the moment. Every player I mentioned ahead of him will effect the outcome of the game more than he will (and, more importantly, their chances of winning).
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