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Will the Warriors keep their 2008 lottery pick?

Yes, another project can't hurt.
2
18%
No, they don't need anymore youngsters.
9
82%
 
Total votes : 11

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 11:55 pm
We're not gonna want our pick.

Golden State is short on bench help and heavy on youngsters. And, like thinking about school on a Sunday, sooner or later we're gonna have to move one of our big contracts to ensure the resign of Monta, Biedrins, and Brandan Wright. Hopefully, this offseason, we can package our pick with Al Harrington and move them for some decent help on the bench that'll expire by the time Brandan Wright's deal is up. Ideally, a backup point and a backup center (since O'Bryant is leaving). I have a hunch we'll resign Croshere and probably start Brandan Wright next year, so how about we see if Cleveland wants another gun to play with LeBron?

Golden State Incoming

Joe Smith (F)
Damon Jones (G)

Cleveland Incoming

Al Harrington (F)
2008 Lottery Pick

*

Why Cleveland Would Do It

Since aquiring Big Ben from Chicago, the Cav's have had to awkwardly start Wallace and Big Z side-by-side as the two most talented frontcourt players. Aquiring Harrington gives the Cavs a REAL option at PF and allows them to turn Big Ben from a center-turned-4 into a super-sub off the bench. Al, unlike Larry Hughes, will mesh extremely well with LeBron because he doesn't need the ball in his hands a lot to be effective. He's a stand-up shooter that gets really hot and can carry teams on occasion. Cleveland gets to keep a couple smashmouthed, blue collar big men on their reserve unit (Varejao, Wallace), not to mention now has a flurry of shooters, including Harrington, Wally, Gibson, and West... all capable of 40% seasons that can knock it down when LeBron gets double-teamed. Suddenly, Cleveland looks ready to compete with Boston for the East's best record:

PG - Delonte West / Daniel Gibson
SG - Sasha Pavlovic / Devin Brown
SF - LeBron James / Wally Szerbiak
PF - Al Harrington / Anderson Varejao
C - Zydrunas Illgauskas / Ben Wallace

Am I the only person who thinks the 2nd string of that team could probably make the playoffs in the East...?

Why Golden State Would Do It

The fact that the Warriors got aced out at the finish line this year speaks volumes to where the future of this team lies. The veteran core of Davis, Harrington, and Jackson were good, but couldn't get the Warriors over the hump at the day's end. Often times, Monta Ellis looked more like the franchise of this team, not to mention Biedrins' huge tear at the end of the season, and the emergence of Brandan Wright as a future force. Relieving themselves of Big Al forces the Warriors to put their youngsters at the helm with Davis and Jackson, confirming the youth movement has finally arrived. With 3 studly toddlers backing up Diddy and Jax, Golden State can be competitve longer and, in all likely, a better team with Monta as their main go-to guy. Joe Smith is a Nellie-ball player; a long, wiry big man that can defend, rebound, and shoot the midrange J. Jones, likewise, is a momentum player that, like Jackson, will thrive in Nellie's free-flowing offense. The team puts their future in the driver's seat and gets deeper all in one fell swoop:

PG - Baron Davis / Damon Jones
SG - Monta Ellis / Marco Belinelli
SF - Stephen Jackson / Matt Barnes
PF - Brandan Wright / Joe Smith
C - Andris Biedrins / Austin Croshere

If Kelenna Azubuike returns, he'll likely get the lion's share of swingman minutes off the bench, with Barnes and Belinelli picking up whatever tick he doesn't get. Meanwhile, the Warriors add a better defender, rebounder, and inside scorer in Wright to their starting lineup, while turning Harrington into 2 productive players off the bench.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 2:09 am
F*cking awful trade. Damon Jones is strictly a shooter and Joe Smith is Al Harrington without a 3pt shot. Other than dumping Al's contract, we get shafted in that trade.

Several things to consider, even tho I think the idea of trading for a vet is the right one, but first we gotta wait for the lottery. The usual outcome would be us staying where we are, but we have to wait before thinking of trading the pick.

After that, let's try to get something better. If you say Varejao and fillers for Al and the pick, I'm ok with that, but not Joe Smith. And, if Cleveland doesn't want that, let's look at other options like Charlie Villanueva or sopmebody else (Channing Frye, maybe?)
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 3:37 am
32 wrote:We're not gonna want our pick.

Golden State is short on bench help and heavy on youngsters. And, like thinking about school on a Sunday, sooner or later we're gonna have to move one of our big contracts to ensure the resign of Monta, Biedrins, and Brandan Wright. Hopefully, this offseason, we can package our pick with Al Harrington and move them for some decent help on the bench that'll expire by the time Brandan Wright's deal is up. Ideally, a backup point and a backup center (since O'Bryant is leaving). I have a hunch we'll resign Croshere and probably start Brandan Wright next year, so how about we see if Cleveland wants another gun to play with LeBron?

Golden State Incoming

Joe Smith (F)
Damon Jones (G)

Cleveland Incoming

Al Harrington (F)
2008 Lottery Pick

*

Why Cleveland Would Do It

Since aquiring Big Ben from Chicago, the Cav's have had to awkwardly start Wallace and Big Z side-by-side as the two most talented frontcourt players. Aquiring Harrington gives the Cavs a REAL option at PF and allows them to turn Big Ben from a center-turned-4 into a super-sub off the bench. Al, unlike Larry Hughes, will mesh extremely well with LeBron because he doesn't need the ball in his hands a lot to be effective. He's a stand-up shooter that gets really hot and can carry teams on occasion. Cleveland gets to keep a couple smashmouthed, blue collar big men on their reserve unit (Varejao, Wallace), not to mention now has a flurry of shooters, including Harrington, Wally, Gibson, and West... all capable of 40% seasons that can knock it down when LeBron gets double-teamed. Suddenly, Cleveland looks ready to compete with Boston for the East's best record:

PG - Delonte West / Daniel Gibson
SG - Sasha Pavlovic / Devin Brown
SF - LeBron James / Wally Szerbiak
PF - Al Harrington / Anderson Varejao
C - Zydrunas Illgauskas / Ben Wallace

Am I the only person who thinks the 2nd string of that team could probably make the playoffs in the East...?

Why Golden State Would Do It

The fact that the Warriors got aced out at the finish line this year speaks volumes to where the future of this team lies. The veteran core of Davis, Harrington, and Jackson were good, but couldn't get the Warriors over the hump at the day's end. Often times, Monta Ellis looked more like the franchise of this team, not to mention Biedrins' huge tear at the end of the season, and the emergence of Brandan Wright as a future force. Relieving themselves of Big Al forces the Warriors to put their youngsters at the helm with Davis and Jackson, confirming the youth movement has finally arrived. With 3 studly toddlers backing up Diddy and Jax, Golden State can be competitve longer and, in all likely, a better team with Monta as their main go-to guy. Joe Smith is a Nellie-ball player; a long, wiry big man that can defend, rebound, and shoot the midrange J. Jones, likewise, is a momentum player that, like Jackson, will thrive in Nellie's free-flowing offense. The team puts their future in the driver's seat and gets deeper all in one fell swoop:

PG - Baron Davis / Damon Jones
SG - Monta Ellis / Marco Belinelli
SF - Stephen Jackson / Matt Barnes
PF - Brandan Wright / Joe Smith
C - Andris Biedrins / Austin Croshere

If Kelenna Azubuike returns, he'll likely get the lion's share of swingman minutes off the bench, with Barnes and Belinelli picking up whatever tick he doesn't get. Meanwhile, the Warriors add a better defender, rebounder, and inside scorer in Wright to their starting lineup, while turning Harrington into 2 productive players off the bench.



trade not good for us
more like trade beans and harrington and fillers for brand then draft tyler smith and taj gibson

davis/duhon/watson
ellis/belinelli/azubuiki
jackson/t smith/barnes
wright/gibson/croshere
brand/perovic/o'bryant
Clifford Rozier rememer him?
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 10:21 pm
why is matt barnes a 2nd option... he won't be here next season..

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 11:02 pm
i actually like the trade. trading doesnt go on until after the lottery anyway, so unless we get a top 10 pick, id say go for it. Smith is not harrington without the 3. smith is a hard nosed rebounder who can defend. FAR from al harrington, whose big rebounding games come few and far between. damon jones is just a shooter, but we wouldnt exactly need him to do much else except maybe bring the ball up, which he can do. he's a decent defender, but wouldnt take too much time at the PG spot as monta would probably slip into the spot to backup baron and buike (if re-signed) would go to the 2 (3 if belli comes in at 2).
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 3:18 am
EMan32 wrote:i actually like the trade. trading doesnt go on until after the lottery anyway, so unless we get a top 10 pick, id say go for it. Smith is not harrington without the 3. smith is a hard nosed rebounder who can defend. FAR from al harrington, whose big rebounding games come few and far between. damon jones is just a shooter, but we wouldnt exactly need him to do much else except maybe bring the ball up, which he can do. he's a decent defender, but wouldnt take too much time at the PG spot as monta would probably slip into the spot to backup baron and buike (if re-signed) would go to the 2 (3 if belli comes in at 2).


Well, obviously I don't totally agree on the Joe Smith vs Al comparison. I think Smith is a better scorer on the post (and only on the post), and a marginally better rebounder (certainly not a hard nosed rebounder. My definition of a hard nosed rebounder is Reggie Evans, not Joe Smith... He's a 8 rpg player, if he gets enough minutes, but that's it. Al was a 7 rpg player in Atlanta playing closer to the rim, so there's not much difference there).

In any case, I'd rather keep the pick than trade for those two, even if it means drafting a rookie that Nellie won't play in his first year.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 9:53 am
I'm sorry to burst anyone's bubble, but allow me to break the ice:

This trade is not supposed to improve the talent of our team.

The truth of the matter is that we need a big contract off the books and aquiring Smith and Jones, who will expire during the same season for a huge chunk of change, is a better option than waiting for 2011 for Al Harrington to come off the books. Al was overpaid by Indiana. He makes more money than Monta Ellis, Stephen Jackson, and Kelenna Azubuike combined. And, with Monta Ellis, Andris Biedrins, and Brandan Wright all looking to get paid, not to mention an extension for Baron Davis, that leaves us with two large contracts to deal: Stephen Jackson or Al Harrington. Jackson plays at a higher level and has a smaller contract than Harrington, who makes about $2 million a year more than him. Harrington is the second highest paid player on our team and nobody would say he's the second best.

We dump Al for temporary bench help that expires the season after next. Smith is not a savior; he's a backup for Brandan Wright. He's a proven rebounder, he blocks a lot of shots, he shoots the ball, he gets to the line, and he's playing the best ball he's ever played since leaving the Warriors. Nobody wants him to play 30 MPG... what we're trying to accomplish is moving a rotation player with a big contract to find money and minutes for BWright. Does anyone else remember why we moved Derek Fisher?

Varejao is going to be too expensive for us. Cleveland won't overpay him, but they'll damn sure match any offer he gets (and I'll bet he sees somewhere between $7-9 million a year). Aquiring him is a stand-still move. We don't need more talent; we need more money to resign our talent that's still getting better. Ellis, Biedrins, and Wright are the priority. This trade ensures that by dumping Harrington for expiring, temporary bench help that gives Brandan Wright a starting spot. Isn't that exactly what we want?
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 10:18 am
meh, I dont like that trade at all.

I am not opposed to trading Harrington but to me that is giving away a talented player for not much of a return.

I am actually very intrigued with the possibilities with the 14th pick. Especially with the potential PG's that could be available... Augustin, Collison, Westbrook amoung others.

We also gotta keep in mind that we have the 10million trade exemption that expires on draft day that could be very valuable.

The potential for trading the 14th pick, Harrington AND a trade exemption could bring back something very nice.

I have not looked around yet at who could be available and teams cap dilemas, but just as an example.

Trade A: 14th pick and Al Harrington to Charlotte for their 2nd round pick
Trade B: Trade exemption in a sign and trade for Okafor

Basically this is one trade but would need to be executed in two separate trades.

Charlotte receives the 14th pick, Harrington and a trade exception and we get Okafor. Not saying they would do it, but just using that as an example.

Before we trade Al just for the sake of getting rid of his salary, I would like to explore the possibilties of using our pick, him and a trade exception to actually get a piece of the future puzzle and trying to solve our need for an inside player.

If we can not get that done, I think we should keep the pick and draft our future at PG.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 10:45 am
I think the problem here is that you guys are looking to get talent back for Harrington.

The problem is, talent costs money... so trading Harrington, as a salary dump, becomes futile if we pick up a player like Okafor or Varejao, who're going to command a ton of money on their resigns. I don't want to trade Harrington out of spite; I like him, he fits well, he adjusts to win ballgames... the problem isn't Al; the problem is his money. I want Harrington's contract gone. Dealing the trade exception, along with Al, would be giving Charlotte their money back and picking up a guy whose going to cost just as much as Harrington, if not much more.

To reitterate, the trade above was fashioned to get Al's money off the books and sustain minimal damage, not upgrade the talent of the team. Thats why the Pacers trade was so damn amazing. Because its almost impossible to upgrade talent and downsize payroll in the same swoop. Sacrificing Al's talent means losing his contract and being able to keep all 3 of the youngsters. That's what important. I think getting back role players, the likes of Joe Smith and Damon Jones, along with ensuring the safe return of Andris Biedrins, Brandan Wright, and Monta Ellis for the next 10 years, would be a huge bargain, when all we're losing is Al Harrington.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 10:54 am
32 wrote:I think the problem here is that you guys are looking to get talent back for Harrington.


Harrington is not the problem. The problem is giving away a lottery pick for nothing in return. I'm sure we can add a very good player right where we are, and that player would play 3 years for cheap.

If you want to dump Al's contract, I'm ok with that, too. But let's do it in a separate deal.

So my final point is: if we deal that pick, we better get something good in return.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 11:17 am
yes, it is giving up the pick where I guess the real problem is for me. I like the depth of this draft and there are going to be some really intriguing players there at 14.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 11:25 am
bada wrote:yes, it is giving up the pick where I guess the real problem is for me. I like the depth of this draft and there are going to be some really intriguing players there at 14.


I would have to agree, I really like Roy Hibbert at 14 because of the depth and his dropoff in value this yr.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 1:10 pm
Ok. I guess the difference is that I can't see us getting anything that good at #14. I mean, I know Mullin is a friggin draft genius (so much so, that if we SOMEHOW get a top 10, I'd abandon any notion of trading the pick), but I just don't see the huge talent in this draft.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 1:25 pm
32 wrote:Ok. I guess the difference is that I can't see us getting anything that good at #14. I mean, I know Mullin is a friggin draft genius (so much so, that if we SOMEHOW get a top 10, I'd abandon any notion of trading the pick), but I just don't see the huge talent in this draft.


HUGE... no. Other than Beasely and Rose who have the potential to be very special players, I dont see SUPERSTARS in this draft. But I think there are a lot of quality "starters" in draft.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 2:01 pm
bada wrote:
32 wrote:Ok. I guess the difference is that I can't see us getting anything that good at #14. I mean, I know Mullin is a friggin draft genius (so much so, that if we SOMEHOW get a top 10, I'd abandon any notion of trading the pick), but I just don't see the huge talent in this draft.


HUGE... no. Other than Beasely and Rose who have the potential to be very special players, I dont see SUPERSTARS in this draft. But I think there are a lot of quality "starters" in draft.


Yep, and a quality starter that plays three season for under $3 million each is worth it.

But I do agree with Bada. I only see Beasley and Rose as star material, although I wouldn't be shocked if Eric Gordon becomes one (not saying it's gonna happen, tho).
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