New Age Limit

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 1:55 pm
The Nba and NCAA have agreed to push the age limit from 1 year to 2 years before a high schooler can join the nba.It is now up to the the NBA players association to accept or deny their request. This would mean more stars going to college and making the college game better but at the same time its holding guys like rose and beasley back another year when they look ready. I like the rule though, but thats only because i love college basketball and since the age limit we have seen some sick freshemen.

Heres the Article for those interested:

"NBA commissioner David Stern and NCAA president Myles Brand are in agreement that both sides would benefit from a rule that would require players to stay in college for at least two years before leaving early for the NBA.

Now they just have to convince everybody else.

According to sources, the proposal would still need to be passed through the NBA Players Association.

"It's a big step for the owners and the commissioner to say they're ready to bargain in good faith to get the rule passed," said one college coach who wished to remain anonymous. "The NBA is willing to give up something to get this rule passed; we just don't know what it is yet."

The NBA adopted a 19-year-old age limit through the collective bargaining agreement which expires in 2010-11.

If the new rule goes into effect, it would eliminate the one-and-done players such as Greg Oden and Kevin Durant and force them to spend at least two years in college."
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 2:24 pm
I simply dont care whether a Beasley or who-ever is ready for the NBA after 1 year...............

1 - The LeBrons, KG's, Kobe's, TMAC's (Monta's) of this world dont come around that often............however, over the last 10 years, there have been way too many wasted talents (or players with no talent) that get big deals because of that "potential"..........most guys arnt ready for the whole package of expectation, competition, travel, money, admiration and so on and so forth.

2 - One of the biggest things for a young player to learn, and if you look at all the ones who have succeded from an early age, is humility and/or patience. This brings the mental toughness to keep going, keep developing and getting better...............staying in College, they will realise that it just isnt going to be handed to them because of thier "potential" they are going to have to earn it more.

3 - We will see less of these "athlete" type players that can do nothing but jump and take 3-4-5 years to develop any kind of game, or not at all. Being in College longer, they will learn more fundamentals and structure of the game...........thus having a more rounded/refined game coming into the NBA.........thus, better players.

4 - LeBrons records will stay intact!!! :mrgreen: .............enabling us to be witness and watch history un-fold, and 20 years from now say "See that guy who is atop of most of the record books, well I watched him do every one of those since he was 18"...........like with Hakeem and blocks, Stockton with steals and assists..........I so wanted to see Malone stick it out and break Kareem's monster points record............and I was happy when MJ just! kept the average PPG over Wilt, love seeing that stuff.

Downside - Much harder to get "steals" in the draft as most will go through the scouting mill for longer and be shown for what they are..........but this again, on the flip side, will prevent the wasted picks of guys who dont develop.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 1:44 am
bigstrads wrote:however, over the last 10 years, there have been way too many wasted talents (or players with no talent) that get big deals because of that "potential"..........


That's easily solved changin the CBA to non-guaranteed contracts. That's a change the NBA has to do, and fast. Bad contracts can cripple a franchise for years... Let's reduce the risk by making a guarantee just on the signing bonus, like the NFL does, or taking a look at other ways to fix it.

I think that issue is a lot more serious that increasing the age limit.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 3:47 pm
I LOOOOOOOOOVE THIS!!! Not because of anything that has to do with basketball, but because I believe that it should be required that professional athletes have a college degree, just like any other job in the world.

I hate seeing kids like Monta who are INCREDIBLY talented at basketball, but are completely unable to put a coherent sentence together (although he's about a million times better than he was a couple years ago).

Athletes are given a free education and VERY few of them (especially in basketball) take advantage of it. I would love to see this become a rule...actually sounds like something Stern would do to help improve the NBA's image (not that I agree with everything Stern does because wearing a coat on the sidelines is stupid).

I know I'm in the minority when it comes to this, but I strongly believe that an education is essential to being an adult, and these kids aren't taking advantage of the things that are handed to them.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 6:29 pm
Captain_Jack wrote:I LOOOOOOOOOVE THIS!!! Not because of anything that has to do with basketball, but because I believe that it should be required that professional athletes have a college degree, just like any other job in the world.

I hate seeing kids like Monta who are INCREDIBLY talented at basketball, but are completely unable to put a coherent sentence together (although he's about a million times better than he was a couple years ago).

Athletes are given a free education and VERY few of them (especially in basketball) take advantage of it. I would love to see this become a rule...actually sounds like something Stern would do to help improve the NBA's image (not that I agree with everything Stern does because wearing a coat on the sidelines is stupid).

I know I'm in the minority when it comes to this, but I strongly believe that an education is essential to being an adult, and these kids aren't taking advantage of the things that are handed to them.


???? you think they're going to get a education while they're in college? hahahahahaha.....if they really wanted to learn they wouldn't enter the draft. You can't force someone who doesn't want to learn to learn.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 7:03 pm
saintdee wrote:
Captain_Jack wrote:I LOOOOOOOOOVE THIS!!! Not because of anything that has to do with basketball, but because I believe that it should be required that professional athletes have a college degree, just like any other job in the world.

I hate seeing kids like Monta who are INCREDIBLY talented at basketball, but are completely unable to put a coherent sentence together (although he's about a million times better than he was a couple years ago).

Athletes are given a free education and VERY few of them (especially in basketball) take advantage of it. I would love to see this become a rule...actually sounds like something Stern would do to help improve the NBA's image (not that I agree with everything Stern does because wearing a coat on the sidelines is stupid).

I know I'm in the minority when it comes to this, but I strongly believe that an education is essential to being an adult, and these kids aren't taking advantage of the things that are handed to them.


???? you think they're going to get a education while they're in college? hahahahahaha.....if they really wanted to learn they wouldn't enter the draft. You can't force someone who doesn't want to learn to learn.


Yeah... a guy with a good work ethic is going to keep a good ethic but a guy who doesn't have one won't get one. And I'm sure locks like Beasley etc. are doing the bare minimum to pass.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 8:36 pm
I didn't say that I thought forcing them to stay in college was the answer, I said that I want it to be required that they get a degree. No matter how hard they try they will have to learn something to get a degree.

As for work ethics...why are we rewarding a poor work ethic then? We're saying, you're a talented athlete so you don't ever need to work hard. Sounds like a great message.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 12:17 am
Captain_Jack wrote:I know I'm in the minority when it comes to this, but I strongly believe that an education is essential to being an adult...


You do think highly of the members of this board don't you? :-)
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 12:19 am
I don't equate getting a degree with education. Totally different subjects when it comes to top athletes. Some of them will take advantage of that education, others won't, and staying in college one more year won't change that.

I agree with your point, Captain_Jack... just don't think that extra year of college will change the situation much.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 9:49 am
TMC wrote:I don't equate getting a degree with education. Totally different subjects when it comes to top athletes. Some of them will take advantage of that education, others won't, and staying in college one more year won't change that.

I agree with your point, Captain_Jack... just don't think that extra year of college will change the situation much.


No you're right, one year won't change it. But I do think this is a sign of the direction they're going in. I'm hoping that SOME day it gets to a point where a degree is required.

And you're also right that a degree is not an education, but it's a hell of a lot closer than coming straight out of high school, or even being in college and taking one class a semester just so you can say that you attend that school. You can't force someone to get an education, athlete or not, but requiring them to get a degree does require them to put in some work and effort in order to achieve a goal instead of having it handed to them on a silver platter.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 10:21 am
Captain_Jack wrote: I'm hoping that SOME day it gets to a point where a degree is required.


I can't see a way to achieve that. It just looks downright illegal to me.

It would be an ideal situation, but just doesn't look feasible.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 10:43 am
I like the point you guys are making about the young players needing to get a better education before turning pro. However, I also agree that it's not really likely to happen as far as guys getting a degree. I used to really want that, but with the kind of money these guys can make in the NBA (or NFL, MLB) it's hard to argue that they should wait to go pro and take the money. Too many bad things can happen if they stay in school (injuries, poor play), that it just doesn't make sense for them to get their degree.

I really don't think the players association will approve this, at least not until the CBA is up. Then any concession they make would be part of a negotiation where they would get something back from it.

Having said all that, I really hate to see so many guys go pro before they are ready and not ever making it. And it's not just their college education, it's their basketball game and general ability to live in the real world that they are missing. On that point, even one more year could help a lot of the young guys to be more ready, and could give them a more realistic perception of their skills matched up against guys who are adults instead of against high school competition. And maybe more of them would actually stay in college more than the 2 years.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 10:57 am
TMC wrote:
Captain_Jack wrote: I'm hoping that SOME day it gets to a point where a degree is required.


I can't see a way to achieve that. It just looks downright illegal to me.

It would be an ideal situation, but just doesn't look feasible.


I don't see how it would be illegal. There are plenty of jobs that require you to have a 4 year degree, whether it relates to the job or not. They just require a degree. I don't see why the NBA, since it IS a job, is any different.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 11:23 am
Captain_Jack wrote:
TMC wrote:
Captain_Jack wrote: I'm hoping that SOME day it gets to a point where a degree is required.


I can't see a way to achieve that. It just looks downright illegal to me.

It would be an ideal situation, but just doesn't look feasible.


I don't see how it would be illegal. There are plenty of jobs that require you to have a 4 year degree, whether it relates to the job or not. They just require a degree. I don't see why the NBA, since it IS a job, is any different.


Well, for starters, it would be a problem for foreign players, that have been playing pro bball since they were more younger than their american counterparts.

Do we force them to attend an american college to get an american degree?. That would close a lot of doors for the NBA (and for those players, starting by those that cannot afford it...). Or do we make an exception? (and I'm sure the NBAPA would have something to say about it).


Also, this is an athletic competition, and I think it would be the first that would require a degree... I don't know how american law deals with it, so I'm not gonna say anything about it, but it cannot happen here, because that job doesn't require, by definition, any academic qualification. But, as I said, I'm not gonna risk commenting on something I'm not sure about...


The idea is not bad, but I see lots of legal holes in it.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 11:31 am
TMC wrote:
Captain_Jack wrote:
TMC wrote:
Captain_Jack wrote: I'm hoping that SOME day it gets to a point where a degree is required.


I can't see a way to achieve that. It just looks downright illegal to me.

It would be an ideal situation, but just doesn't look feasible.


I don't see how it would be illegal. There are plenty of jobs that require you to have a 4 year degree, whether it relates to the job or not. They just require a degree. I don't see why the NBA, since it IS a job, is any different.


Well, for starters, it would be a problem for foreign players, that have been playing pro bball since they were more younger than their american counterparts.

Do we force them to attend an american college to get an american degree?. That would close a lot of doors for the NBA (and for those players, starting by those that cannot afford it...). Or do we make an exception? (and I'm sure the NBAPA would have something to say about it).


Also, this is an athletic competition, and I think it would be the first that would require a degree... I don't know how american law deals with it, so I'm not gonna say anything about it, but it cannot happen here, because that job doesn't require, by definition, any academic qualification. But, as I said, I'm not gonna risk commenting on something I'm not sure about...


The idea is not bad, but I see lots of legal holes in it.


That's true about the foreign players...that would definitely create a problem...I'm not sure about that.

I don't think the lack of a precedent is a legal problem. Athletic or not, it is a job and you are getting paid to perform a service. And regardless of what the job is and whether it actually requires the employee to use their education or not, they can legally require a degree, that is their choice. LEGALLY I don't think that's an issue. Getting people to accept it I don't really see happening. Just wishful thinking on my part I guess.
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