ProBowl

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 6:11 pm
Just had a few thoughts on the probowl selection this season, thought some of you would have some as well.

My thoughts:
-It's a bullshiit popularity contest the fan votes should not weight as heavy as they do. I mean Ben Roethlisberger over David Garrard? Their yards, %, and ratings are very similar, Ben has an edge with 13 more TDs but they are negated by 9 more ints and 23 more sacks! Plus Garrard is doing more with less. Or Derek Anderson who is having a better year statistically than either.

-Joseph Addai over Fred Taylor? OK, this one is close but Taylor is averaging an entire yard more per carry (4.1 vs 5.1) and Addai has more TDs (11 vs 4). But anyone who voted for the probowl and did not give Taylor a vote should be ashamed - the guy hasn't made a probowl ever! and he eclipsed 10,000 career yards this season! This is a direct result of the average, ignorant, trendy NFL fan's lack of knowledge and because Taylor isn't a "flashy" player and a "flashy" team. So we don't reward consistency? Only flash-in-the-pan, one season accomplishments, i guess. I suppose it's much like all the Dallas bandwagon'ers that will tell you that Emmitt was better than Barry or Payton or Jim Brown.

-Lofa Tatupu starting over Patrick Willis. P.Willy made it but he is easily the best defensive player of the year let alone MLB! Lofa isn't even in the top 20 in tackles with 101 vs Willis' 142 (that's 41 more!). They are tied in sacks with 1 apiece, and Tatupu has an edge in ints (4 vs 0) and forced fumbles with 2 more. Maybe I'm a little biased on this one but you have to remember that Willis has played over half of the season with a broken hand as well - and he is a rookie leading the league in tackles!!! And not just leading by a few, he has 20 more than Ernie Sims who is second with 122, the rest of the top 10 are only separated by 1-11 tackles!

-I'm not even going to get into the fact that the entire probowl game is a joke and in my opinion shouldn't even be played in the first place.

Those are my thoughts, how about you guys?
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 9:00 pm
The Pro Bowl, to me, is like little league baseball's allstar game... based on popularity, rather than skill and talent. These guys are all talented, dont get me wrong, but Willis, as the best defensive player of the year, in my opinion isnt even starting... That is a fuckin joke.... Bada, as a Hawks fan, what do you think about this? I mean, yeah, Lofa is a super talented player, but to start!? JReed already gave the stats.... take a look. :|

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 12:20 am
the probowl is the least interesting allstar game of all sports...and im including hockey. id much rather watch the wnba championship series than the probowl. of course the football skills comp is pretty interesting. more so than the actual game itsself.
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2007 2:42 am
JReed23 wrote:-I'm not even going to get into the fact that the entire probowl game is a joke and in my opinion shouldn't even be played in the first place.


That pretty much wraps it up for me, too.


Now, an considering the game as a reward for the kind of seasons those players have had, this is what I think about the teams:

AFC:

1.- A few players made it only due to their names. Ogden is a good example, also Polamalu (does anyone really believe that he has played better than Kerry Rhodes?) and a few others...

2.- I've got no problem with Roethlisberger over Garrard. I think Big Ben makes the Steelers win and for the number of times he's been sacked, you can blame their hideous o-line, not him. The Steelers used to have a great o-line, with outstanding players at Center. This time, they went for Sean Maham in free agency, somebody that the Bucs were afraid to start... That killed their o-line chemistry. Their right side might have been between the worst in the league.

I like Garrard, but, in my opinion, he's not as good as Ben. He just benefited from a much better o-line.

3.- Willie Parker and Addai over Fred Taylor is just ridiculous. Retarded.

4.- As for the WRs... I do agree with 3 of them, but I think Wes Welker should be there instead of T.J. Houshmandzadeh.

5.- I can't see why Tony Gonzalez is there and Kellen Winslow is not.

6.- On defense, I miss Mario Williams, Gary Brackett or Nnamdi Asomugha...

NFC

1.- The WR picks are awful. TO clearly deserves to be there, but leaving out Marques Colston (wins do not count, or Torry Holt wouldn't be there) or Plaxico Burress is crazy.

2.- Drew Brees is having an amazing second half of the season. He should have made it instead of Hasselbeck (who I like, but, to me, he's been the 4th best NFC QB)

3.- I would have sent Mike Sellers as FB instead of Tony Richardson.

4.- I can't understand how the Bucs (or the Jags, for that matter) don't have a single Pro Bowl player. It's just ridiculous. Barret Ruud, Derrick Brooks, Jermaine Phillips and Ronde Barber have had better seasons than some players in that list. Ken Hamlin, Terence Newman or Lance Briggs haven't played better then those Bucs, for example.

I'm sure I could think of several more snubs...
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 12:11 pm
I'm just glad P-Willis and Andy Lee got in. They had Pro Bowl seasons. Here's a fun fact... the last time SF had a rookie in the Pro Bowl, his name was Ronnie Lott; one of the best defensive players in the game.

"When the season has fallen apart, good players keep playing, but great ones do more."

Willis sure will be something special.
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 2:57 pm
EMan32 wrote:the probowl is the least interesting allstar game of all sports...and im including hockey. id much rather watch the wnba championship series than the probowl. of course the football skills comp is pretty interesting. more so than the actual game itsself.


I completely agree. I don't think I've watched a Pro Bowl since I was about 10 or 11 years old.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2007 9:06 am
No questin Lofa deserves the start more than Willis. Whie Willis is having a great season and may end up being the more dominating player one day, right now Lofa is the more complete LB.

To judge Lofa by tackle statistics is misleading. You need to watch him play to appreciate him.. They ask him to do so much in their defense that he is not going to have 15 tackle games. He is amazing in coverage and they drop him back quite a bit.

Almost every post game interviews has a player from the opposition commenting how good he is. get comments like this "man, 51 is a good player. In film you see he is good but then when you get on the field with him he plays so much faster and stronger and was just dominating"

Willis will have his time.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2007 12:16 pm
Sorry guys, I can't agree with you about the Taylor thing. I see the argument for Taylor and would not have complained if he DID make it, but I dont agree that it is rediculous that Addai made it over him.

First off, for the most part Addai had to carry the entire load while Taylor was a split time guy (216 carries to MJD's 157). There is a huge benefit to Taylor having a MJD. We have seen Taylor break down in the past having to carry the load. Taylor CERTAINLY benefits in his yard per carry being able to sit and rest at times.

IN taking a look at the basic stats:
Total Yards:
Addai: 1450
Taylor: 1149

TD's:
Addai: 14
Taylor: 4

Now, Addai had more opportunites than Taylor so Addai has the advantage there. But bottom line is that Addai had more yards and 3 times as many TD's

The main reason however that I feel Addai is more deserving is he is a more versatile player and was more important in the game than Taylor.

Let me explain...

Versatility:
Pass catching. Addai 39 catches, Taylor 9

Types of runs: Taylor is a bit of a one trick poney as he is really just an up the middle runner. Of his 216 carries, 126 were up the middle while 43 went right and 47 went left. That is 60% up the middle. Contrast that to Addai who of his 251 carries 75 went middle, 88 went right, 86 went left. You can do so much more with Addai. Granted some of this is scheme but we all know Taylor is pretty much a north/south runner these days.

The deal breaker for me is who gets the BIG carries. Fred Taylor has 4 carries on 3rd down all season. In 3rd and less than 3 yards, Taylor has one carry for 0 yards. MJD has 18 carries in that situation. So when you need a BIG couple yards on 3rd down, they go to MJD. Addai had 14 carries on 3rd and less than 3 yards. MJD gets more carries as the game goes along... a bigger % in the 2nd half than in the 1st half. While Addai has to be the main threat the whole game.

I just have a hard time putting him in the Pro Bowl when he is only a 1st and 2nd down player and has another great back to take the pressure off of him over a guy who has more yards, more TD's, has to carry the whole load and make all the important carries on a team that has only lost 2 games.

I realize some of this is splittle hairs and now that Parker is hurt, Taylor is going and I am glad for him because he has been a good pro for many years.[/b]
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2007 2:02 pm
Keep in mind other factors, too, Bada. It's not the same playing for the Colts, with Payton Manning, Reggie Wayne, etc... those guys are a constant threat in the passing game. They keep opposing Ds honest. On the other side, Jacksonville's offense is just decent.

Garrard has a great TD to INT ratio (the best in the league, if I'm not wrong), but he's not really a menacing QB. Just an smart one. And the WRs are not comparable.

Also, Jones Drew is a big play waiting to happen, but can't carry the load as a feature back. He has surpassed 100 yards just two times this year, and only two more has surpassed 60 yards. Actually, he has had 8 games in which he hasn't been able to get 50 yards.

The good thing about him is that he has a knack for finding ways to score, but he's not able to carry the Jags like Taylor does. What he does is detract from Taylor's stats, making them misleading.

Don't get me wrong. Without Jones Drew, Taylor's career would have been a couple of years shorter... but having him on the team affects his stats and, hence, the way he's perceived around the league.

In short, I've found Taylor's yards a lot more impressive than Addai's, without detracting anything from Addai's big season.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2007 2:42 pm
I hear what you are saying TMC and again, it is splitting hairs cause he certainly is not UNDESERVING but I think Addai is just as deserving.

The topper for me is that Taylor is an up the middle, 1st and 2nd down back who's carries decrease in crunch time and never gets the ball on 3rd and short, while Indy asks Addai to get all the big, important carries.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2007 3:09 pm
I just realized that the stats you posted are totals. Addai's rushing yards are below Taylor's, 1019 to 1091, and Taylor got his yards with less carries. Actually, if you check their yards per carry, Taylor has 5.1 to 4.1 by Addai.

As for the TDs, that's where Jones Drew comes into play, skewing Taylor's stats. I'm sure he'd have around 10-12 TDs if not for MJD taking those carries/receptions from him. And Taylor is a much worse receiving option than MJD, so he doesn't see many passes thrown his way, which also hurts his total yardage.

Actually, now that I think of it, Taylor is not the only one I'd put over Addai this year. Jamal Lewis would also be over him. I've been really impressed with the way he's played this year. Certainly a key for his team.


Oh, well, it's just a matter of opinion... all of them had good seasons. I'm just more impressed with the season of guys that had to work harder for their yards (or so it seemed to me).

Now that I think of it, where I would really have a problem is in the NFC. Westbrook and Adrian Peterson have been amazing backs this year... but nobody else has had a pro bowl type season.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2007 3:32 pm
problem with that TMC is that you just cant say "Oh, MJD got all the short TD run so Taylor should have 10 more TD's" because Taylor over the past 5 years has one of the worst short goal-line %'s in the league.

I hear people (not you TMC) say "It's easy to get one yard TD's" and that those are "cheap" TD's. It is actually a skill that not everyone has. Taylor included. He is a HORRENDOUS short yardage back. The reason he does not have the TD total is all on him. Before MJD is the Toefield... Greg Jones etc. ANYONE other than Taylor cause he flat out failed in that role.

And one thing (although not sexy) that nobody brings us is pass blocking. Addai is one of the best pass blocking RB's I have seen in YEARS! And with this only being his 2nd year in the league, it is really remarkable. And in that offense, that is SO important.

I dont think that can go overlooked. He runs well, he can run outside, he can run inside, he can pick up the short yardage gains, he is a receiving threat, and he is one of the best blocking RB's in the league. He is just so much more of a complete player than Taylor or Lewis.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2007 3:48 pm
Oh, as far as Hasselbeck goes, obviously I am biased but I think they were right on in him getting the 3rd QB slot over Breese. Breese has been GOD awful in a few games as well as having some brilliant ones.

Hasselbeck on the other hand has been very consistent and is on pace to break every single season passing record in team history.

All this with absolutely NO running game and for most of the season missing both starting WR's (Branch and Hackett). As much as I have seen in awhile on a team, an entire offense is on one player's back and Hass has responded.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2007 3:52 pm
badabing8888 wrote:problem with that TMC is that you just cant say "Oh, MJD got all the short TD run so Taylor should have 10 more TD's" because Taylor over the past 5 years has one of the worst short goal-line %'s in the league.

I hear people (not you TMC) say "It's easy to get one yard TD's" and that those are "cheap" TD's. It is actually a skill that not everyone has. Taylor included. He is a HORRENDOUS short yardage back. The reason he does not have the TD total is all on him. Before MJD is the Toefield... Greg Jones etc. ANYONE other than Taylor cause he flat out failed in that role.


Ok, I'll give you that. It's true that Taylor never was a great goal line back. Without MJD, they'd probably still go to Greg Jones or Toefield to get those TDs. Still, Taylor had a 14 TD season and another 12 TD year (albeit early in his career), so he's not that bad (or wasn't). It's just that they have better options than him for short gains like such ones.

About pass blocking... I don't think it matters much for Pro Bowl selections. It matters when you're building a team, but I can't imagine someone being picked for the pro bowl for his pass blocking skills (or with those skills being a factor).
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2007 1:01 am
badabing8888 wrote:Oh, as far as Hasselbeck goes, obviously I am biased but I think they were right on in him getting the 3rd QB slot over Breese. Breese has been GOD awful in a few games as well as having some brilliant ones.

Hasselbeck on the other hand has been very consistent and is on pace to break every single season passing record in team history.

All this with absolutely NO running game and for most of the season missing both starting WR's (Branch and Hackett). As much as I have seen in awhile on a team, an entire offense is on one player's back and Hass has responded.


Hasselbeck is your most consistent player. The problem your Seahawks have had since their Superbowl loss couple years back is staying consistent. Honestly, if everyone was completely healthy, I'd think they'd be able to compete against the Patriots.
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