RobDIKUM wrote:

migya wrote:

warriorsstepup wrote:

migya wrote:

saintdee wrote:

warriorsstepup wrote:

saintdee wrote:Anyone read about the near rioting that went down in response.

Its sickening to see animals messing things up by burning cars and saying things like "We live a life of fear, and we want them to be afraid tonight."

Animals ? How would you react if your Mother, Father, Daughter, Sister, orbest friend, was shot dead in the back, what would be your reaction ? HuH ?

my first reaction wouldn't be to burn my neighbor's cars. and damage the properties of my local community that for sure. How are you getting justice for your loved one by hurting the communities? creating fear and panic isn't a good thing. For every police window you break thats money coming out of your taxes that goes into buying the police a new car.

That's exactly right. The only way to get theat cop that shot the boy back, is to target him specifically. That means finding out where he lives and doing things to make him pay, thos are uncivilised things but if you want to destoy something, destroy that person specifically. Fiding out where he lives and smashing his car, house, legs, arms, even killing him, is being specific to the person who stepped out of line.

There actually is another point of view. You can act like a country does towards a hostile group that lives in a neighbouring country and start targetting the group or organisation specifically, but in this case it means bashing or killing cops in general, to send a message that those actions are not acceptable. That is too extreme, as not all cops think the same and you really can't prove that all cops are given orders to harass blacks and/or hispanics.

Really a difficult situation if you want to hand out pay back for what happened. Best thing is to target the cop that did it directly and that requires some organisation, having a group of people that is sneaky about it all.

The most effective way is to disturb government events by protesting at such events about cops being abusive, that way it brings about awareness about the whole thing

Different world different perspectives, alot of people are sheltered in society and others face adversity on daily bases. If a person has never been in a position where cops have harassed, used force against them, have acquaintances that cops have affected in a negative way, it would be hard to understand the reason for the riots, and how its more of a protest than a crime.

The only way to accomplish anything is to smarten up about. Do it the smart way, really making a point but having little collateral damage.

I'm going to be very honest here, there is always a chance it could get me in trouble but I like you guys and we are open with each other. A few years ago there was a family on my parents' street that kept annoying a few of the neighbours. They had smashed some of the garden lights my parents had, we had not seen them but they were always roaming the streets, sometimes swearing at people and causing trouble. The police don't have the power to do anymore than just ask them to stop, so that avenue was a waste of time. One night I decided to take action, went over their fence with a few cans of petrol and put their grass, table and chairs and a couple of doors of one of their cars on fire. For the trouble these people had caused it was not excessive and predictably enough they started vulgarly abusing the surrounding neighbours and people demanded to the local council that that family be removed. The council only budged to do so when one of the neighbours cars got the windows smashed. Point is, I took action against the individuals who were causing the trouble only and they then dug themselves their onwn grave and were removed. You have to take action WHEN things go too far BUT be smart about it and be effective

Well, in this case, somebody lost a life, so it did go too far. But terrorizing your own neighborhood is not a solution. I try to have faith that things will work out, but if this BART cop doesn't go to prison, all hell will break loose and I can't blame people if they feel hopeless.

Point is, angry or not, be smart about it and make your mark on those responsible, government included, as they are to be held accountable for all goings on of their departments and affiliated workers. Doesn't mean assassinate a local politician, at least not yet, it takes a whole lot more to even be thinking of such a thing. If blacks and latinos are targeted more, the government must have to educate their police to not discriminate, as that will only get a backlash from the local society being targeted.

It runs a bit deeper than that. I don't mean to discriminate or act like I know it all, I'm just going by information on the internet and past news articles. It has been stated that alot of the trouble that exists in some american societies is mainly caused by some black and latino groups. If that is the case, police and others in society have an attitude that those ethnic groups are trouble makers more so than those that are not of those ethnic groups. It is not right to discriminate against ALL people of one ethnic gropu but it is nature to be more alert when you around someone who is similar as such to someone you have heard of that has caused trouble. This is a large part of police attitudes towards certain groups. It is the way it is and some innocent people get violated and harrassed because of this

ahh, i get it now, thanks for the clarification Migya. Very good point.

excellet point migya, I can say as a Asian I am more cautious of other Asian drivers? racism? or just aware?

TMC wrote:If you don't like demonstrations or other peaceful ways of dealing with it, then don't do anything. But riots are not an answer. Actually, rioting will bring more problems to the hood than staying put.

Its not a matter of simply "liking" peaceful demonstrations and petition signing, that sh*t simply DOES NOT work. How long do we have to sit around singing hymns and marching arm in arm before somebody gets the real picture? Now I'm not talking no armed revolution n sh*t, but we have to let the local government know that we will not stand for this. Writing a letter is not going to help the cause TMC. Singing "we shall overcome" is not going to help this situation. The police in oakland are not implemented to protect the citizens, they are there to keep them in check. And I don't know if you guys have noticed yet, but blacks were not solely rioting, the COMMUNITY of OAKLAND was rioting. The community must defend itself when there is no one to defend it. Simple as that.

I know for some of you this may seem ignorant as **** but thats just the reality of the situation. A man was executed and you expect us to be peaceful? How many young men have to be shot before we start pushing back???

and on a side note.....those greeks sure know how 2 get down dont they? lol

migya wrote:

RobDIKUM wrote:

migya wrote:

warriorsstepup wrote:

migya wrote:

saintdee wrote:

warriorsstepup wrote:

saintdee wrote:Anyone read about the near rioting that went down in response.

Its sickening to see animals messing things up by burning cars and saying things like "We live a life of fear, and we want them to be afraid tonight."

Animals ? How would you react if your Mother, Father, Daughter, Sister, orbest friend, was shot dead in the back, what would be your reaction ? HuH ?

my first reaction wouldn't be to burn my neighbor's cars. and damage the properties of my local community that for sure. How are you getting justice for your loved one by hurting the communities? creating fear and panic isn't a good thing. For every police window you break thats money coming out of your taxes that goes into buying the police a new car.

That's exactly right. The only way to get theat cop that shot the boy back, is to target him specifically. That means finding out where he lives and doing things to make him pay, thos are uncivilised things but if you want to destoy something, destroy that person specifically. Fiding out where he lives and smashing his car, house, legs, arms, even killing him, is being specific to the person who stepped out of line.

There actually is another point of view. You can act like a country does towards a hostile group that lives in a neighbouring country and start targetting the group or organisation specifically, but in this case it means bashing or killing cops in general, to send a message that those actions are not acceptable. That is too extreme, as not all cops think the same and you really can't prove that all cops are given orders to harass blacks and/or hispanics.

Really a difficult situation if you want to hand out pay back for what happened. Best thing is to target the cop that did it directly and that requires some organisation, having a group of people that is sneaky about it all.

The most effective way is to disturb government events by protesting at such events about cops being abusive, that way it brings about awareness about the whole thing

Different world different perspectives, alot of people are sheltered in society and others face adversity on daily bases. If a person has never been in a position where cops have harassed, used force against them, have acquaintances that cops have affected in a negative way, it would be hard to understand the reason for the riots, and how its more of a protest than a crime.

The only way to accomplish anything is to smarten up about. Do it the smart way, really making a point but having little collateral damage.

I'm going to be very honest here, there is always a chance it could get me in trouble but I like you guys and we are open with each other. A few years ago there was a family on my parents' street that kept annoying a few of the neighbours. They had smashed some of the garden lights my parents had, we had not seen them but they were always roaming the streets, sometimes swearing at people and causing trouble. The police don't have the power to do anymore than just ask them to stop, so that avenue was a waste of time. One night I decided to take action, went over their fence with a few cans of petrol and put their grass, table and chairs and a couple of doors of one of their cars on fire. For the trouble these people had caused it was not excessive and predictably enough they started vulgarly abusing the surrounding neighbours and people demanded to the local council that that family be removed. The council only budged to do so when one of the neighbours cars got the windows smashed. Point is, I took action against the individuals who were causing the trouble only and they then dug themselves their onwn grave and were removed. You have to take action WHEN things go too far BUT be smart about it and be effective

Well, in this case, somebody lost a life, so it did go too far. But terrorizing your own neighborhood is not a solution. I try to have faith that things will work out, but if this BART cop doesn't go to prison, all hell will break loose and I can't blame people if they feel hopeless.

Point is, angry or not, be smart about it and make your mark on those responsible, government included, as they are to be held accountable for all goings on of their departments and affiliated workers. Doesn't mean assassinate a local politician, at least not yet, it takes a whole lot more to even be thinking of such a thing. If blacks and latinos are targeted more, the government must have to educate their police to not discriminate, as that will only get a backlash from the local society being targeted.

It runs a bit deeper than that. I don't mean to discriminate or act like I know it all, I'm just going by information on the internet and past news articles. It has been stated that alot of the trouble that exists in some american societies is mainly caused by some black and latino groups. If that is the case, police and others in society have an attitude that those ethnic groups are trouble makers more so than those that are not of those ethnic groups. It is not right to discriminate against ALL people of one ethnic gropu but it is nature to be more alert when you around someone who is similar as such to someone you have heard of that has caused trouble. This is a large part of police attitudes towards certain groups. It is the way it is and some innocent people get violated and harrassed because of this

The actions you took Migya against your neighbours was caused by the continous headache they performed in terrorizing your parents and the entire neighbourhood. Am sure in your mind it was unfair that such acts took place, and continued with no solution from the authority. So to make your point and the get attention needed you in turn went pyro on there lawn and other placed items on fire. The fact that you were willing to risk getting in trouble for your actions shows how much the issue was effecting you. This was your stand against the wrong doing caused to your parents and the neighbourhood. Same point for the rioters in oakland, the shooting and death of a hand-cuffed, helpless young man rings close ties that they can relate to or know the unjustice ways of the the police system. They are thinking "that possibly could have been me", I could have been Oscar Grant". Its not just the police officer who commited the crime, its the whole police force and thier treatment towards young black males. The justice sytem should take care of of the bart officer that killed the young man, give him lengthy jail sentence, if not watch out for more riots. To single out the bart officer's family would be wrong, they had nothing to do with that crime, they cannot use their authority to kill a person, the police on the other hand can, and they need to be aware of thier unjust acts.

Now the people have the attention of the police, now the police want step up their efforts in dealings with the public, take a better look at their training requirements, bring in independant auditors to look into cases. With that vidoe we have the facts in our hands, the police can not taint or call the incident nothing else, push it under the rug, the public see's the facts, and in turn can call it what it is a MURDER. And to think the bart officer is yet to be arrested, how much evidence do they need to arrest this guy.

warriorsstepup wrote:

migya wrote:Point is, angry or not, be smart about it and make your mark on those responsible, government included, as they are to be held accountable for all goings on of their departments and affiliated workers. Doesn't mean assassinate a local politician, at least not yet, it takes a whole lot more to even be thinking of such a thing. If blacks and latinos are targeted more, the government must have to educate their police to not discriminate, as that will only get a backlash from the local society being targeted.

It runs a bit deeper than that. I don't mean to discriminate or act like I know it all, I'm just going by information on the internet and past news articles. It has been stated that alot of the trouble that exists in some american societies is mainly caused by some black and latino groups. If that is the case, police and others in society have an attitude that those ethnic groups are trouble makers more so than those that are not of those ethnic groups. It is not right to discriminate against ALL people of one ethnic gropu but it is nature to be more alert when you around someone who is similar as such to someone you have heard of that has caused trouble. This is a large part of police attitudes towards certain groups. It is the way it is and some innocent people get violated and harrassed because of this

The actions you took Migya against your neighbours was caused by the continous headache they performed in terrorizing your parents and the entire neighbourhood. Am sure in your mind it was unfair that such acts took place, and continued with no solution from the authority. So to make your point and the get attention needed you in turn went pyro on there lawn and other placed items on fire. The fact that you were willing to risk getting in trouble for your actions shows how much the issue was effecting you. This was your stand against the wrong doing caused to your parents and the neighbourhood. Same point for the rioters in oakland, the shooting and death of a hand-cuffed, helpless young man rings close ties that they can relate to or know the unjustice ways of the the police system. They are thinking "that possibly could have been me", I could have been Oscar Grant". Its not just the police officer who commited the crime, its the whole police force and thier treatment towards young black males. The justice sytem should take care of of the bart officer that killed the young man, give him lengthy jail sentence, if not watch out for more riots. To single out the bart officer's family would be wrong, they had nothing to do with that crime, they cannot use their authority to kill a person, the police on the other hand can, and they need to be aware of thier unjust acts.

Now the people have the attention of the police, now the police want step up their efforts in dealings with the public, take a better look at their training requirements, bring in independant auditors to look into cases. With that vidoe we have the facts in our hands, the police can not taint or call the incident nothing else, push it under the rug, the public see's the facts, and in turn can call it what it is a MURDER. And with the vidoe at hand that show the bart officer commiting murder he is yet to be arrested.

I understand that warriorsstepup and I'm not saying these riots, or at least making awareness of the dislike and anger of certain members of that society towards the police, are totally wrong. It is just that unfortunately violence begets violence and in this case, though not totally clear (as it is the job of police to use physical force to maintain civil behaviour), these riot actions are in response to certain police actions first. Things will likely escalate, with fights and confrontations between these groups of that society and police occur. Things should and will settle, hopefully quickly and with resolution to what caused all this is the first place

speakonitgod wrote:

TMC wrote:If you don't like demonstrations or other peaceful ways of dealing with it, then don't do anything. But riots are not an answer. Actually, rioting will bring more problems to the hood than staying put.

Its not a matter of simply "liking" peaceful demonstrations and petition signing, that sh*t simply DOES NOT work. How long do we have to sit around singing hymns and marching arm in arm before somebody gets the real picture? Now I'm not talking no armed revolution n sh*t, but we have to let the local government know that we will not stand for this. Writing a letter is not going to help the cause TMC. Singing "we shall overcome" is not going to help this situation. The police in oakland are not implemented to protect the citizens, they are there to keep them in check. And I don't know if you guys have noticed yet, but blacks were not solely rioting, the COMMUNITY of OAKLAND was rioting. The community must defend itself when there is no one to defend it. Simple as that.

I know for some of you this may seem ignorant as **** but thats just the reality of the situation. A man was executed and you expect us to be peaceful? How many young men have to be shot before we start pushing back???

what has the riots accomplished? nothing. does anybody still care really? is obama speaking out? no. nothing has changed. riots don't change anything. The only riots that work are extremely violent ones which you don't advocate. Even then most of those riots don't work either. See the riots in France a few years ago.... did that change anything? not really. When you burn cars the only people that are hurt are the car owners not the government. nothing is going to change unless people are truly fed up but most people don't have the willpower to sustain long term resistance because nobody cares deeply enough about this cause. They only want to say they are oppressed but come Monday they'll go to work anyway. If you want to be violent you have to be prepared to be violent for the next few months not just one night of drunken community damage.

saintdee wrote:what has the riots accomplished? nothing. does anybody still care really? is obama speaking out? no. nothing has changed. riots don't change anything. The only riots that work are extremely violent ones which you don't advocate. Even then most of those riots don't work either. See the riots in France a few years ago.... did that change anything? not really. When you burn cars the only people that are hurt are the car owners not the government. nothing is going to change unless people are truly fed up but most people don't have the willpower to sustain long term resistance because nobody cares deeply enough about this cause. They only want to say they are oppressed but come Monday they'll go to work anyway. If you want to be violent you have to be prepared to be violent for the next few months not just one night of drunken community damage.

Right on the money, but you can't do it alone, you need a few hundred people that think the same to do the same over a long term battle and even then the rest of society may not agree with you and be against you as well, meaning you will lose and might even get killed. If the odds are against you in such a way that they can't be turned in your favour, shut up, move to another area (not easy due to the money issue I know but if you want it bad enough you'll find a way) and have a good relationship with the people in the new area.

Support from others is everything

speakonitgod wrote:Its not a matter of simply "liking" peaceful demonstrations and petition signing, that sh*t simply DOES NOT work.

Of course a single demonstration won't do anything to change the situation. But there are other ways. Bring those demonstrations to the City Hall. Do them twice a week for several months. Bring the media to them (in the right place, they'll go by themselves). Keep it up until you start to see some improvements...

There are always non-violent ways to achieve things. But they all need time and constant pressure over the political establishment to work.

the gun should not have gone off....bottom line....whether intentional or not, the gun should not have been shot. taken out, ok. shot, no way. i dont care what the kid said...if it was anything short of "i got a bomb in my pants", there is no justifiable reason that he should have been shot.

this particular cop needs to be fried and checked out...Oakland PD already has a bad rep for the scandal as recently as this past summer...and SFPD's rep is taking a hit....BART Police though? if you cant trust the cop at the BART then who the F is left???

THIS is what protests and riots do. I'm not condoning violence, but sometimes public unrest is needed to prompt the correct action.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.c ... .DTL&tsp=1

(01-14) 00:13 PST Oakland -- The BART police officer who fatally shot an unarmed man on an Oakland train platform and then refused to explain his actions to investigators was arrested Tuesday in Nevada on suspicion of murder, authorities said.

Johannes Mehserle, 27, of Lafayette was taken into custody in Douglas County, Nev., said Deputy Steve Velez of the Douglas County sheriff's office. The arrest was also confirmed by David Chai, chief of staff to Oakland Mayor Ron Dellums.

E-Man wrote:the gun should not have gone off....bottom line....whether intentional or not, the gun should not have been shot. taken out, ok. shot, no way. i dont care what the kid said...if it was anything short of "i got a bomb in my pants", there is no justifiable reason that he should have been shot.

this particular cop needs to be fried and checked out...Oakland PD already has a bad rep for the scandal as recently as this past summer...and SFPD's rep is taking a hit....BART Police though? if you cant trust the cop at the BART then who the F is left???

Of course. That goes without saying. What we're talking about is what to do considering what happened, but everybody agrees that the cop should get the punishment he deserves.

Captain_Jack wrote:THIS is what protests and riots do. I'm not condoning violence, but sometimes public unrest is needed to prompt the correct action.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.c ... .DTL&tsp=1

(01-14) 00:13 PST Oakland -- The BART police officer who fatally shot an unarmed man on an Oakland train platform and then refused to explain his actions to investigators was arrested Tuesday in Nevada on suspicion of murder, authorities said.

Johannes Mehserle, 27, of Lafayette was taken into custody in Douglas County, Nev., said Deputy Steve Velez of the Douglas County sheriff's office. The arrest was also confirmed by David Chai, chief of staff to Oakland Mayor Ron Dellums.

protests yes.. i hardly think his arrest was a result of the riot and car burning.

The police officer who shot Oscar Grant is clearly lying! He didn't react as if he "accidentally" shot Grant. It took him quite a while to come up with the excuse that he "accidentally grabbed the taser."

I'm glad the "officer" was arrested. But why so late? He should have been arrested soon after the murder. I hate it when police officers get certain rights and privileges that others don't.

May justice be served!