New Years Eve BART shooting footage

Here you can chat about anything that's not Warriors related.

Moderators: Mr. Crackerz, JREED, Guybrush, hobbes

User avatar
Hall of Famer
Posts: 18461
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:48 am
Location: Somewhere in this site...
Poster Credit: -4
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 4:26 am
speakonitgod wrote:I think the rioting was definitely warranted that night. I mean to those who are disgusted by it.....why? Do you have any other solutions that would help give the working middle/lower class a voice in a situation like this? I mean seriously, what do you want us to do...write a letter to our local politician? March?

We made sure the city of Oakland will remember Oscar Grant, and that is the point.


Ok, but, according to that point of view, the cops that had nothing to do with the execution but were harassed during the riots, now should have the right to get some kind of pay back against those rioters.

Violence only engenders more violence, no matter how you look at it. It has to be avoided no matter what.

Any other way to protest, I'd be ok with it. Demonstrations, for example, would be a valid way to protest. Anything but riots or attacks against people that wasn't involved in the incident. Those acts should get the retribution they deserve.

gogogadget wrote:Lastly, I understand I could have gone about this a different way. I apologize to bada, TMC, and all the mods for the name calling and demeaning of a respected member of this community. That said, I have cooled off for a few days now, and still feel the same. I do not take back what I said. I stand by my friends and family, and that's how I honored them that day. I know I don't have the best reputation on this board, but this argument was really from the heart. Once again, I apologize, and go warriors!


Don't worry. There's no problem with having a strong opinion on this subject. People may not agree with it, but that doesn't make it less valid. The name calling, on the other side, it's something that you all have to keep in check.

All Star
Posts: 2320
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2008 5:40 pm
Location: lithuania, gargzdai
Poster Credit: 10
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 9:17 am
from what i've read about this incident, it seems clear to me that the whole thing is full of BS.
first of all, the riots that took place had nothing to do with the fact that a man was shot. they were a flow of mass anger against the system. the killing served as a alibi point. it's the same thing as riots in greece when a youngster was shot by a cop. police represents authority, most of the low class people hate authority because they see it as responsible for their fucked-up lives. and police has to be the closest medium through which you could get at authority, hence the hatred for it. it has nothing to do with race altogether, except that it's easier to interprete the crime as favouring rioters, because, well, the victim was black, so it's a double crime.
no one actually knew or knows what's happenned except for the brute fact of killing, and it's so easy to interprete it the way it suits you. the whole situation is not a moral or ethical or political fight as a psychological reliefing of anger that's piled up in people.
secodly, the lynch of a cop who commited a murder is and was nothing the riotists wanted - this (lynching the particular cop) would put an end to the particular event of killing and their desire to revenge the whole system or as much of it as they can would go to waste. they would have no alibi for their riots and public anger management sessions.
i'll repeat - the simplest and just solution of this crime (getting at the particular cop) would be the end of this fake pseudo-political rioting, which is and was the sole purpose of angry people - GET THE STRESS OFF.
sad situation.
"i wish i was a little bit taller" skee lo
User avatar
All Star
Posts: 3069
Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2005 2:32 pm
Location: San Jose
Poster Credit: 0
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 10:05 am
martin wrote:from what i've read about this incident, it seems clear to me that the whole thing is full of BS.
first of all, the riots that took place had nothing to do with the fact that a man was shot. they were a flow of mass anger against the system. the killing served as a alibi point. it's the same thing as riots in greece when a youngster was shot by a cop. police represents authority, most of the low class people hate authority because they see it as responsible for their fucked-up lives. and police has to be the closest medium through which you could get at authority, hence the hatred for it. it has nothing to do with race altogether, except that it's easier to interprete the crime as favouring rioters, because, well, the victim was black, so it's a double crime.
no one actually knew or knows what's happenned except for the brute fact of killing, and it's so easy to interprete it the way it suits you. the whole situation is not a moral or ethical or political fight as a psychological reliefing of anger that's piled up in people.
secodly, the lynch of a cop who commited a murder is and was nothing the riotists wanted - this (lynching the particular cop) would put an end to the particular event of killing and their desire to revenge the whole system or as much of it as they can would go to waste. they would have no alibi for their riots and public anger management sessions.
i'll repeat - the simplest and just solution of this crime (getting at the particular cop) would be the end of this fake pseudo-political rioting, which is and was the sole purpose of angry people - GET THE STRESS OFF.
sad situation.


except for the fact that race does play a part in this mess. I don't agree with rioting, but i'm sure there were many people expecially out in Oakland that felt it could be any of them. Whether the kid was a suspect in something else or not, he did not deserve to have his life taken away. On the other hand, i know there are rioters who are just there to participate in the mayhem. But there are some people on edge who feel that the same thing could happen to them for an unjust reason.

All Star
Posts: 2320
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2008 5:40 pm
Location: lithuania, gargzdai
Poster Credit: 10
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 11:10 am
RobDIKUM wrote:
except for the fact that race does play a part in this mess. I don't agree with rioting, but i'm sure there were many people expecially out in Oakland that felt it could be any of them. Whether the kid was a suspect in something else or not, he did not deserve to have his life taken away. On the other hand, i know there are rioters who are just there to participate in the mayhem. But there are some people on edge who feel that the same thing could happen to them for an unjust reason.


well it plays, but not in a strictly logical way - the race in this case is the easiest way to get dots on I's.
i understand certain people feel discriminated and racial differences will always be tense, at least in the lower level of life conditions. neighbours don't like neighbours and are the first ones to blame if things happen. so it is even easier to blame the black, the red, the caucasian, the white, the green (hell, we saw many of these in alien movies), the different sex and so on.
in this, none of arguments has enough material evidence, the cop shot a boy, was it because of race? no one knows. would it been different if the boy was white? why then a cop shot a boy in greece who was white? huh? maybe there are some other crucial factor in there? no one knows. well, i don't at least, because there's certainly not enough evidence whatsover. it's an accident, an event and people tend to push their own agenda through it. given all circumstances equal, but changing the race of a dead boy, would there be riots? would there be a murder? would anyone shout you fricking bastard you shot a white boy with emphasis on white? cops kill people, soldiers do, sometimes out of their legitimate limits, because they are people as others - people tend to have their own head spinning and at certain times it might go off. see for this the great old movie '12 angry men'. and pay attention how one of the 12 court men sticks to his agenda of litterally sending innocent boy to jail just because he had tense relationship with his son prior to the trial. it's called projecting. getting rid of tension. well, i don't know why the cop shot the boy, if he had some problems or was it simple coincidence and chance and so on,
BUT - the rioters are simply projecting their anger on others. and i don't blame them, don't blame anyone. things like that happen, because of difficult nature of human being. we are not free and our actions are determined, only knowledge let's us control blind (in regards to idea of freedom and equality) forces of nature.
i still see this event as an example of human life's complexity and psychological turmoil rather than a political stance having anything to do with justice.
life is brute, but not because it's someone's fault in a moral sense.
"i wish i was a little bit taller" skee lo

All Star
Posts: 3128
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2006 11:03 am
Location: san jose
Poster Credit: 19
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 12:41 pm
RobDIKUM wrote:
warriorsstepup wrote:
RobDIKUM wrote:
warriorsstepup wrote:A horrific story- to shoot a man in the back is a sense-less act. Underserving to the young man, who's family and friends must now mourn and wonder what his life would have been.

My runnings with police have me believing majority of them in San Jose carry no respect towards African Americans.

When i was younger I would always hear about the injustice that the police placed on African Americans. (DWB) as they would say, meaning DRIVING WHILE BLACK- the case in which alot of my black friends reported they would get pulled over and harrassed by cops and not get a valid reason for been pulled over , the stories of unnecessary force against blacks, the disrespect towards blacks by cops. As a young 18 year old i always relpyed no such thing has ever happened to me therefore i cannot complain about the cops. I always looked at cops as protectors of society.

This all changed once I personally encountered the cops from San Jose.It was a normal day me and my friend also black travelled to the East side of San Jose to pick up another one of our friends. On our way back 6-7 cop cars pulled us over at a near by resturant. At this point in time there were on-lookers with eyes glared on the 2 black teens, and my latino friend. Next thing you know we are ordered to get out our car, guns drawn from the cops, knees on the ground, in dis-belief my friend was asking out loud what was going on, and i remembered clearly a cop saying "if you do anything we will shot". We were hand cuffed placed in the back of the cop car. 5 minutes later we were let go out of the hand-cuffs, no explanation giving. Got their card to report them about the incident. We got no where with the police department on reporting our complaints.

So I have my reasons for not respecting cops, I do respect the law but not the cops. Plus other incidents not this serious has me disliking the police.


I used to have similar issues out there in san jose as well, and you know why they have been able to get away with that **** for so long? the label as one of Americas safest big cities. I believe that those statistics are justification for them profiling and so it is somewhat allowed.


I see you are also from San Jose, what part ? Am sure if we ask a young African American or Latino resident in San Jose about their experience with cops, am sure they will mention something negative about them. Cops are notorious for profiling blacks and latinos which has been known for years. Its just a statastic until you are personally affected by the profiling, followed by cops abuse if power. Its almost as if cops have it against blacks and Latinos, as if they are trained to talk down on them, and have what ever way they want with them.

So you also went through similar issues, i feel for you because i know how that feels, its so degrading, feeling almost powerless. The whole safest Big city label put on San Jose, does give the police leeway in harrassing people and making there life miserable.


East Side most of my life. I've lived around different places around here if you're familiar, like meadowfair, east hills, near hillview airport. I've also lived out by Alma and monterey for a while. But when I was younger, the cops seemed to have more problems in the nicer areas for sure, but they also have a different attitude on this side.I don't have any issues now, but this was more about 10 years ago or so in my teenage years and early twenties.


Nice to know there is a warrior fan from San Jose. Am over on Monterey and Tully. Lately I have not had any issues with the cops either, more during my late teens. My past experiences have left a bad taste in my mouth, am older now and aware that cops are capable of unjustifiable acts. But its always in the back of my mind that that they will find a way to harass or put me in danger.
User avatar
All Star
Posts: 3069
Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2005 2:32 pm
Location: San Jose
Poster Credit: 0
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 12:53 pm
warriorsstepup wrote:
RobDIKUM wrote:
warriorsstepup wrote:
RobDIKUM wrote:
warriorsstepup wrote:A horrific story- to shoot a man in the back is a sense-less act. Underserving to the young man, who's family and friends must now mourn and wonder what his life would have been.

My runnings with police have me believing majority of them in San Jose carry no respect towards African Americans.

When i was younger I would always hear about the injustice that the police placed on African Americans. (DWB) as they would say, meaning DRIVING WHILE BLACK- the case in which alot of my black friends reported they would get pulled over and harrassed by cops and not get a valid reason for been pulled over , the stories of unnecessary force against blacks, the disrespect towards blacks by cops. As a young 18 year old i always relpyed no such thing has ever happened to me therefore i cannot complain about the cops. I always looked at cops as protectors of society.

This all changed once I personally encountered the cops from San Jose.It was a normal day me and my friend also black travelled to the East side of San Jose to pick up another one of our friends. On our way back 6-7 cop cars pulled us over at a near by resturant. At this point in time there were on-lookers with eyes glared on the 2 black teens, and my latino friend. Next thing you know we are ordered to get out our car, guns drawn from the cops, knees on the ground, in dis-belief my friend was asking out loud what was going on, and i remembered clearly a cop saying "if you do anything we will shot". We were hand cuffed placed in the back of the cop car. 5 minutes later we were let go out of the hand-cuffs, no explanation giving. Got their card to report them about the incident. We got no where with the police department on reporting our complaints.

So I have my reasons for not respecting cops, I do respect the law but not the cops. Plus other incidents not this serious has me disliking the police.


I used to have similar issues out there in san jose as well, and you know why they have been able to get away with that **** for so long? the label as one of Americas safest big cities. I believe that those statistics are justification for them profiling and so it is somewhat allowed.


I see you are also from San Jose, what part ? Am sure if we ask a young African American or Latino resident in San Jose about their experience with cops, am sure they will mention something negative about them. Cops are notorious for profiling blacks and latinos which has been known for years. Its just a statastic until you are personally affected by the profiling, followed by cops abuse if power. Its almost as if cops have it against blacks and Latinos, as if they are trained to talk down on them, and have what ever way they want with them.

So you also went through similar issues, i feel for you because i know how that feels, its so degrading, feeling almost powerless. The whole safest Big city label put on San Jose, does give the police leeway in harrassing people and making there life miserable.


East Side most of my life. I've lived around different places around here if you're familiar, like meadowfair, east hills, near hillview airport. I've also lived out by Alma and monterey for a while. But when I was younger, the cops seemed to have more problems in the nicer areas for sure, but they also have a different attitude on this side.I don't have any issues now, but this was more about 10 years ago or so in my teenage years and early twenties.


Nice to know there is a warrior fan from San Jose. Am over on Monterey and Tully. Lately I have not had any issues with the cops either, more during my late teens. My past experiences have left a bad taste in my mouth, am older now and aware that cops are capable of unjustifiable acts. But its always in the back of my mind that that they will find a way to harass or put me in danger.


that new shopping center is badass! lol. I'm in that area a lot. My aunt lives right there on san jose ave. I used to live there for a little bit too.
Last edited by RobDIKUM on Mon Jan 12, 2009 1:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

All Star
Posts: 3128
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2006 11:03 am
Location: san jose
Poster Credit: 19
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 1:05 pm
migya wrote:
saintdee wrote:
warriorsstepup wrote:
saintdee wrote:Anyone read about the near rioting that went down in response.

Its sickening to see animals messing things up by burning cars and saying things like "We live a life of fear, and we want them to be afraid tonight."


Animals ? How would you react if your Mother, Father, Daughter, Sister, orbest friend, was shot dead in the back, what would be your reaction ? HuH ?


my first reaction wouldn't be to burn my neighbor's cars. and damage the properties of my local community that for sure. How are you getting justice for your loved one by hurting the communities? creating fear and panic isn't a good thing. For every police window you break thats money coming out of your taxes that goes into buying the police a new car.



That's exactly right. The only way to get theat cop that shot the boy back, is to target him specifically. That means finding out where he lives and doing things to make him pay, thos are uncivilised things but if you want to destoy something, destroy that person specifically. Fiding out where he lives and smashing his car, house, legs, arms, even killing him, is being specific to the person who stepped out of line.

There actually is another point of view. You can act like a country does towards a hostile group that lives in a neighbouring country and start targetting the group or organisation specifically, but in this case it means bashing or killing cops in general, to send a message that those actions are not acceptable. That is too extreme, as not all cops think the same and you really can't prove that all cops are given orders to harass blacks and/or hispanics.

Really a difficult situation if you want to hand out pay back for what happened. Best thing is to target the cop that did it directly and that requires some organisation, having a group of people that is sneaky about it all.

The most effective way is to disturb government events by protesting at such events about cops being abusive, that way it brings about awareness about the whole thing


Different world different perspectives, alot of people are sheltered in society and others face adversity on daily bases. If a person has never been in a position where cops have harassed, used force against them, have acquaintances that cops have affected in a negative way, it would be hard to understand the reason for the riots, and how its more of a protest than a crime.

All Star
Posts: 3128
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2006 11:03 am
Location: san jose
Poster Credit: 19
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 3:17 pm
RobDIKUM wrote:
warriorsstepup wrote:
RobDIKUM wrote:
warriorsstepup wrote:
RobDIKUM wrote:
warriorsstepup wrote:A horrific story- to shoot a man in the back is a sense-less act. Underserving to the young man, who's family and friends must now mourn and wonder what his life would have been.

My runnings with police have me believing majority of them in San Jose carry no respect towards African Americans.

When i was younger I would always hear about the injustice that the police placed on African Americans. (DWB) as they would say, meaning DRIVING WHILE BLACK- the case in which alot of my black friends reported they would get pulled over and harrassed by cops and not get a valid reason for been pulled over , the stories of unnecessary force against blacks, the disrespect towards blacks by cops. As a young 18 year old i always relpyed no such thing has ever happened to me therefore i cannot complain about the cops. I always looked at cops as protectors of society.

This all changed once I personally encountered the cops from San Jose.It was a normal day me and my friend also black travelled to the East side of San Jose to pick up another one of our friends. On our way back 6-7 cop cars pulled us over at a near by resturant. At this point in time there were on-lookers with eyes glared on the 2 black teens, and my latino friend. Next thing you know we are ordered to get out our car, guns drawn from the cops, knees on the ground, in dis-belief my friend was asking out loud what was going on, and i remembered clearly a cop saying "if you do anything we will shot". We were hand cuffed placed in the back of the cop car. 5 minutes later we were let go out of the hand-cuffs, no explanation giving. Got their card to report them about the incident. We got no where with the police department on reporting our complaints.

So I have my reasons for not respecting cops, I do respect the law but not the cops. Plus other incidents not this serious has me disliking the police.


I used to have similar issues out there in san jose as well, and you know why they have been able to get away with that **** for so long? the label as one of Americas safest big cities. I believe that those statistics are justification for them profiling and so it is somewhat allowed.


I see you are also from San Jose, what part ? Am sure if we ask a young African American or Latino resident in San Jose about their experience with cops, am sure they will mention something negative about them. Cops are notorious for profiling blacks and latinos which has been known for years. Its just a statastic until you are personally affected by the profiling, followed by cops abuse if power. Its almost as if cops have it against blacks and Latinos, as if they are trained to talk down on them, and have what ever way they want with them.

So you also went through similar issues, i feel for you because i know how that feels, its so degrading, feeling almost powerless. The whole safest Big city label put on San Jose, does give the police leeway in harrassing people and making there life miserable.


East Side most of my life. I've lived around different places around here if you're familiar, like meadowfair, east hills, near hillview airport. I've also lived out by Alma and monterey for a while. But when I was younger, the cops seemed to have more problems in the nicer areas for sure, but they also have a different attitude on this side.I don't have any issues now, but this was more about 10 years ago or so in my teenage years and early twenties.


Nice to know there is a warrior fan from San Jose. Am over on Monterey and Tully. Lately I have not had any issues with the cops either, more during my late teens. My past experiences have left a bad taste in my mouth, am older now and aware that cops are capable of unjustifiable acts. But its always in the back of my mind that that they will find a way to harass or put me in danger.


that new shopping center is badass! lol. I'm in that area a lot. My aunt lives right there on san jose ave. I used to live there for a little bit too.


Nice.They have that apple bees, and the Chevy's, maybe catch a game there some time with some brewski. Am yet to fully explore the shopping center but its a nice addition to the area.
User avatar
All Star
Posts: 3069
Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2005 2:32 pm
Location: San Jose
Poster Credit: 0
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 3:21 pm
warriorsstepup wrote:
RobDIKUM wrote:
warriorsstepup wrote:
RobDIKUM wrote:
warriorsstepup wrote:
RobDIKUM wrote:
warriorsstepup wrote:A horrific story- to shoot a man in the back is a sense-less act. Underserving to the young man, who's family and friends must now mourn and wonder what his life would have been.

My runnings with police have me believing majority of them in San Jose carry no respect towards African Americans.

When i was younger I would always hear about the injustice that the police placed on African Americans. (DWB) as they would say, meaning DRIVING WHILE BLACK- the case in which alot of my black friends reported they would get pulled over and harrassed by cops and not get a valid reason for been pulled over , the stories of unnecessary force against blacks, the disrespect towards blacks by cops. As a young 18 year old i always relpyed no such thing has ever happened to me therefore i cannot complain about the cops. I always looked at cops as protectors of society.

This all changed once I personally encountered the cops from San Jose.It was a normal day me and my friend also black travelled to the East side of San Jose to pick up another one of our friends. On our way back 6-7 cop cars pulled us over at a near by resturant. At this point in time there were on-lookers with eyes glared on the 2 black teens, and my latino friend. Next thing you know we are ordered to get out our car, guns drawn from the cops, knees on the ground, in dis-belief my friend was asking out loud what was going on, and i remembered clearly a cop saying "if you do anything we will shot". We were hand cuffed placed in the back of the cop car. 5 minutes later we were let go out of the hand-cuffs, no explanation giving. Got their card to report them about the incident. We got no where with the police department on reporting our complaints.

So I have my reasons for not respecting cops, I do respect the law but not the cops. Plus other incidents not this serious has me disliking the police.


I used to have similar issues out there in san jose as well, and you know why they have been able to get away with that **** for so long? the label as one of Americas safest big cities. I believe that those statistics are justification for them profiling and so it is somewhat allowed.


I see you are also from San Jose, what part ? Am sure if we ask a young African American or Latino resident in San Jose about their experience with cops, am sure they will mention something negative about them. Cops are notorious for profiling blacks and latinos which has been known for years. Its just a statastic until you are personally affected by the profiling, followed by cops abuse if power. Its almost as if cops have it against blacks and Latinos, as if they are trained to talk down on them, and have what ever way they want with them.

So you also went through similar issues, i feel for you because i know how that feels, its so degrading, feeling almost powerless. The whole safest Big city label put on San Jose, does give the police leeway in harrassing people and making there life miserable.


East Side most of my life. I've lived around different places around here if you're familiar, like meadowfair, east hills, near hillview airport. I've also lived out by Alma and monterey for a while. But when I was younger, the cops seemed to have more problems in the nicer areas for sure, but they also have a different attitude on this side.I don't have any issues now, but this was more about 10 years ago or so in my teenage years and early twenties.


Nice to know there is a warrior fan from San Jose. Am over on Monterey and Tully. Lately I have not had any issues with the cops either, more during my late teens. My past experiences have left a bad taste in my mouth, am older now and aware that cops are capable of unjustifiable acts. But its always in the back of my mind that that they will find a way to harass or put me in danger.


that new shopping center is badass! lol. I'm in that area a lot. My aunt lives right there on san jose ave. I used to live there for a little bit too.


Nice.They have that apple bees, and the Chevy's, maybe catch a game there some time with some brewski. Am yet to fully explore the shopping center but its a nice addition to the area.


we'll get back on topic soon enough!

Anyway, that area needed that center man. There was hardly anything there. Now there are tons of big stores, a bunch of places to eat and it's nice and lit up. I've been around that area my whole life basically because my cousins have lived there for about 20 years or so. The farther you move down toward alma, the more dreary it gets. Plus now if i forget my daughters diapers or whatever when i'm at my aunts house i can just drive a half minute down little orchard. I'd be down to catch a game at applebee's or somethin sometime.
User avatar
All Star
Posts: 1787
Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2008 9:47 pm
Location: Where Da Wild Things R
Poster Credit: 1
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 4:10 pm
Yea TMC like a demonstration in the hood has ever gotten anyone anywhere.
Image
User avatar
All Star
Posts: 3069
Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2005 2:32 pm
Location: San Jose
Poster Credit: 0
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 4:18 pm
speakonitgod wrote:Yea TMC like a demonstration in the hood has ever gotten anyone anywhere.


Well, there are definitely two sides to the argument. And you have to somewhat agree that a riot in this manner can escalate and lose any "effectiveness". People have the right to be pissed off, but there are certain things that bother me about it. People are burning cars and damaging property of people that have nothing to do with any wrongdoing. If they want to protest, do it against who is doing the wrong. Also, there are many people that join in just to create havoc and have no purpose. They just see the opportunity for destruction. I understand how angry, hopeless, helpless many of the people are, but I don't see why burning down your own neighborhood solves anything. I'm not aware of eveything speak, and i'm not aware of where everything took place, but I respect those who truly took a stand against the police, but i despise those who decided to join in and destroy their own to "make a point".
User avatar
All Star
Posts: 1758
Joined: Tue Nov 04, 2008 11:49 am
Location: napa
Poster Credit: 2
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 4:24 pm
RobDIKUM wrote:
speakonitgod wrote:Yea TMC like a demonstration in the hood has ever gotten anyone anywhere.


Well, there are definitely two sides to the argument. And you have to somewhat agree that a riot in this manner can escalate and lose any "effectiveness". People have the right to be pissed off, but there are certain things that bother me about it. People are burning cars and damaging property of people that have nothing to do with any wrongdoing. If they want to protest, do it against who is doing the wrong. Also, there are many people that join in just to create havoc and have no purpose. They just see the opportunity for destruction. I understand how angry, hopeless, helpless many of the people are, but I don't see why burning down your own neighborhood solves anything. I'm not aware of eveything speak, and i'm not aware of where everything took place, but I respect those who truly took a stand against the police, but i despise those who decided to join in and destroy their own to "make a point".


Well said Rob. This is always the side effect of riots and all mob mentality displays. The original purpose is righteous, but the groups are always joined by people that have their own agendas. There is never any reason to destroy somebodies property, homes or business or cars. There is also no reason to commit voilent acts against people that belong to the same group as the person you were wronged by. I realize that may be easier said than done, but I would be willing to bed that most of the protesters (dont want to use a #) were not looking for their actions to spark off a voilent and destructive riot......but the havoc seekers reckognized an opportunity.
User avatar
Hall of Famer
Posts: 18461
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:48 am
Location: Somewhere in this site...
Poster Credit: -4
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 4:34 pm
RobDIKUM wrote:
speakonitgod wrote:Yea TMC like a demonstration in the hood has ever gotten anyone anywhere.


Well, there are definitely two sides to the argument. And you have to somewhat agree that a riot in this manner can escalate and lose any "effectiveness". People have the right to be pissed off, but there are certain things that bother me about it. People are burning cars and damaging property of people that have nothing to do with any wrongdoing.


Exactly. And those that take part in those acts have to be punished as criminals, because that's what they are. No matter if they're acting as a response for other crime. That still doesn't make it valid.

If you don't like demonstrations or other peaceful ways of dealing with it, then don't do anything. But riots are not an answer. Actually, rioting will bring more problems to the hood than staying put.
User avatar
Hall of Famer
Posts: 21417
Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2005 7:50 am
Location: Perth
Poster Credit: 28
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 8:44 pm
warriorsstepup wrote:
migya wrote:
saintdee wrote:
warriorsstepup wrote:
saintdee wrote:Anyone read about the near rioting that went down in response.

Its sickening to see animals messing things up by burning cars and saying things like "We live a life of fear, and we want them to be afraid tonight."


Animals ? How would you react if your Mother, Father, Daughter, Sister, orbest friend, was shot dead in the back, what would be your reaction ? HuH ?


my first reaction wouldn't be to burn my neighbor's cars. and damage the properties of my local community that for sure. How are you getting justice for your loved one by hurting the communities? creating fear and panic isn't a good thing. For every police window you break thats money coming out of your taxes that goes into buying the police a new car.



That's exactly right. The only way to get theat cop that shot the boy back, is to target him specifically. That means finding out where he lives and doing things to make him pay, thos are uncivilised things but if you want to destoy something, destroy that person specifically. Fiding out where he lives and smashing his car, house, legs, arms, even killing him, is being specific to the person who stepped out of line.

There actually is another point of view. You can act like a country does towards a hostile group that lives in a neighbouring country and start targetting the group or organisation specifically, but in this case it means bashing or killing cops in general, to send a message that those actions are not acceptable. That is too extreme, as not all cops think the same and you really can't prove that all cops are given orders to harass blacks and/or hispanics.

Really a difficult situation if you want to hand out pay back for what happened. Best thing is to target the cop that did it directly and that requires some organisation, having a group of people that is sneaky about it all.

The most effective way is to disturb government events by protesting at such events about cops being abusive, that way it brings about awareness about the whole thing


Different world different perspectives, alot of people are sheltered in society and others face adversity on daily bases. If a person has never been in a position where cops have harassed, used force against them, have acquaintances that cops have affected in a negative way, it would be hard to understand the reason for the riots, and how its more of a protest than a crime.



The only way to accomplish anything is to smarten up about. Do it the smart way, really making a point but having little collateral damage.

I'm going to be very honest here, there is always a chance it could get me in trouble but I like you guys and we are open with each other. A few years ago there was a family on my parents' street that kept annoying a few of the neighbours. They had smashed some of the garden lights my parents had, we had not seen them but they were always roaming the streets, sometimes swearing at people and causing trouble. The police don't have the power to do anymore than just ask them to stop, so that avenue was a waste of time. One night I decided to take action, went over their fence with a few cans of petrol and put their grass, table and chairs and a couple of doors of one of their cars on fire. For the trouble these people had caused it was not excessive and predictably enough they started vulgarly abusing the surrounding neighbours and people demanded to the local council that that family be removed. The council only budged to do so when one of the neighbours cars got the windows smashed. Point is, I took action against the individuals who were causing the trouble only and they then dug themselves their onwn grave and were removed. You have to take action WHEN things go too far BUT be smart about it and be effective
Image



Image


migya make the ring fall on ya
User avatar
All Star
Posts: 3069
Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2005 2:32 pm
Location: San Jose
Poster Credit: 0
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 11:00 pm
migya wrote:
warriorsstepup wrote:
migya wrote:
saintdee wrote:
warriorsstepup wrote:
saintdee wrote:Anyone read about the near rioting that went down in response.

Its sickening to see animals messing things up by burning cars and saying things like "We live a life of fear, and we want them to be afraid tonight."


Animals ? How would you react if your Mother, Father, Daughter, Sister, orbest friend, was shot dead in the back, what would be your reaction ? HuH ?


my first reaction wouldn't be to burn my neighbor's cars. and damage the properties of my local community that for sure. How are you getting justice for your loved one by hurting the communities? creating fear and panic isn't a good thing. For every police window you break thats money coming out of your taxes that goes into buying the police a new car.



That's exactly right. The only way to get theat cop that shot the boy back, is to target him specifically. That means finding out where he lives and doing things to make him pay, thos are uncivilised things but if you want to destoy something, destroy that person specifically. Fiding out where he lives and smashing his car, house, legs, arms, even killing him, is being specific to the person who stepped out of line.

There actually is another point of view. You can act like a country does towards a hostile group that lives in a neighbouring country and start targetting the group or organisation specifically, but in this case it means bashing or killing cops in general, to send a message that those actions are not acceptable. That is too extreme, as not all cops think the same and you really can't prove that all cops are given orders to harass blacks and/or hispanics.

Really a difficult situation if you want to hand out pay back for what happened. Best thing is to target the cop that did it directly and that requires some organisation, having a group of people that is sneaky about it all.

The most effective way is to disturb government events by protesting at such events about cops being abusive, that way it brings about awareness about the whole thing


Different world different perspectives, alot of people are sheltered in society and others face adversity on daily bases. If a person has never been in a position where cops have harassed, used force against them, have acquaintances that cops have affected in a negative way, it would be hard to understand the reason for the riots, and how its more of a protest than a crime.



The only way to accomplish anything is to smarten up about. Do it the smart way, really making a point but having little collateral damage.

I'm going to be very honest here, there is always a chance it could get me in trouble but I like you guys and we are open with each other. A few years ago there was a family on my parents' street that kept annoying a few of the neighbours. They had smashed some of the garden lights my parents had, we had not seen them but they were always roaming the streets, sometimes swearing at people and causing trouble. The police don't have the power to do anymore than just ask them to stop, so that avenue was a waste of time. One night I decided to take action, went over their fence with a few cans of petrol and put their grass, table and chairs and a couple of doors of one of their cars on fire. For the trouble these people had caused it was not excessive and predictably enough they started vulgarly abusing the surrounding neighbours and people demanded to the local council that that family be removed. The council only budged to do so when one of the neighbours cars got the windows smashed. Point is, I took action against the individuals who were causing the trouble only and they then dug themselves their onwn grave and were removed. You have to take action WHEN things go too far BUT be smart about it and be effective


Well, in this case, somebody lost a life, so it did go too far. But terrorizing your own neighborhood is not a solution. I try to have faith that things will work out, but if this BART cop doesn't go to prison, all hell will break loose and I can't blame people if they feel hopeless.
PreviousNext

Return to Off-Topic Forum

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

cron