RobDIKUM wrote:Also, you can't just take a whole entity and say you have to respect them and James, I don't think you can say I don't respect soldiers because they are puppets and this and that. Though, knowing you james, you're doing it to prove a point about someone being a blind patriot and what not.

Ok, Im up again, cant sleep..........you are correct up there Mr Dikum, I wasnt saying that I didnt respect all of them, as I said in the post before............my posts were merely a reaction to the ridiculously naive notion that 99% of them are good, and his pathetic reasoning and insult hurling.

Ohh and dont worry, this wont carry on.............

This next quote is priceless though, and a PERFECT example of "gogogadget ignorance!" ie: believing and stating as fact that everyone around them thinks the same as they do =

gogogadget wrote:You cant win this argument strads. Where are the mods coming to rescue you? Theyre not. theyre americans. They respect the military.

Faulty logic, blind loyalty, arguments ad hominem... All the makings of a true internet debate.

I don't know whether this argument is over, but rather than contribute to either side, I will just say a few words.

gogo: I respect your dedication. I too have friends and relatives in the armed forces, and it sickens me when anyone belittles their selflessness. These people are fighting to defend the country, not the actions of its government. I know many people who serve (or have served) America without agreeing with everything the government does. That's not what it's about, and thinking otherwise is not "realism"; it's just ignorance.

bigs: You are right; there are corrupt people everywhere in every occupation. 1% is surely an underestimate. That said, I have family members who are police officers, and I can assure you that neither they nor any of their coworkers I've had the pleasure of meeting would ever do anything to harm an innocent person. They are policemen and women because they want to help make the world a better place. I'm not sure how much money they make in England, but over here they don't make nearly as much as they ought to considering how important they are. Gogo's "estimate" was not meant to convey an honest figure so much as to point out that the majority of policemen (and firemen, etc.) have good intentions.


Bottom line: this is a pointless argument. All that is important to me is that people who do so much to defend our liberties deserve respect, and if you don't want to show it then frankly you should just not post about it. I see NO reason to be disrespectful to soldiers and police officers as a whole. What I CAN see is justification for being angry with the INDIVIDUAL OFFICER and the event that actually triggered this discussion in the first place: the shooting of an [apparently] innocent citizen.

D4rk 0ne wrote:Faulty logic, blind loyalty, arguments ad hominem... All the makings of a true internet debate.

I don't know whether this argument is over, but rather than contribute to either side, I will just say a few words.

gogo: I respect your dedication. I too have friends and relatives in the armed forces, and it sickens me when anyone belittles their selflessness. These people are fighting to defend the country, not the actions of its government. I know many people who serve (or have served) America without agreeing with everything the government does. That's not what it's about, and thinking otherwise is not "realism"; it's just ignorance.

bigs: You are right; there are corrupt people everywhere in every occupation. 1% is surely an underestimate. That said, I have family members who are police officers, and I can assure you that neither they nor any of their coworkers I've had the pleasure of meeting would ever do anything to harm an innocent person. They are policemen and women because they want to help make the world a better place. I'm not sure how much money they make in England, but over here they don't make nearly as much as they ought to considering how important they are. Gogo's "estimate" was not meant to convey an honest figure so much as to point out that the majority of policemen (and firemen, etc.) have good intentions.


Bottom line: this is a pointless argument. All that is important to me is that people who do so much to defend our liberties deserve respect, and if you don't want to show it then frankly you should just not post about it. I see NO reason to be disrespectful to soldiers and police officers as a whole. What I CAN see is justification for being angry with the INDIVIDUAL OFFICER and the event that actually triggered this discussion in the first place: the shooting of an [apparently] innocent citizen.

only argument I have here Dark is that [apparently] you threw in there. Shooting is only justifiable when the officer is in immediate danger and the suspect is a threat. Have you ever been threatened by a subdued person who is on his stomach? Mistakes are made everyday, but when the "mistake" ends a life, it's completely unacceptable. i'm not gonna give that coward the benefit of the doubt because the homicide is not justifiable.

RobDIKUM wrote:only argument I have here Dark is that [apparently] you threw in there. Shooting is only justifiable when the officer is in immediate danger and the suspect is a threat. Have you ever been threatened by a subdued person who is on his stomach? Mistakes are made everyday, but when the "mistake" ends a life, it's completely unacceptable. i'm not gonna give that coward the benefit of the doubt because the homicide is not justifiable.

I included that simply because the verdict has not been determined yet, and I do not want to make rash assumptions. For all we know there is more to the case than the video have revealed (not that it seems likely at this point).

D4rk 0ne wrote:

RobDIKUM wrote:only argument I have here Dark is that [apparently] you threw in there. Shooting is only justifiable when the officer is in immediate danger and the suspect is a threat. Have you ever been threatened by a subdued person who is on his stomach? Mistakes are made everyday, but when the "mistake" ends a life, it's completely unacceptable. i'm not gonna give that coward the benefit of the doubt because the homicide is not justifiable.

I included that simply because the verdict has not been determined yet, and I do not want to make rash assumptions. For all we know there is more to the case than the video have revealed (not that it seems likely at this point).

i know, but i differentiate between innocent in a small crime and innocent as in not deserving to be killed. That was my point. Say a guy robs a bank, doesn't kill or injure anybody. Sure he deserves to be arrested and everything but does he deserve to be shot in the back? That's just where i was going. Not really against your point Dark

as this "debate" is in the off-topic forum and it DOES pertain to the topic, I have no problems letting this continue. Just refrain from personal attacks and have a healthy debate.

We will monitor this thread and will lock the thread if needed.


Anyway, my son's Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu intructor is a BART police officer and had the chance to talk to him tonight after my son's belt graduation. I feel so bad for him.... he is as good of man as I have met in a long time and it has been a very rough several days for him and his colleagues. He is really stressed and sad. He had things thrown at him while sitting down for lunch today with a fellow officer and their are continually yelled at and harassed as they are in public. Really sad. Certainly not as sad as the victim for sure, but I hate to see good people pay for the crime of one f'ing shithole

bada wrote:as this "debate" is in the off-topic forum and it DOES pertain to the topic, I have no problems letting this continue. Just refrain from personal attacks and have a healthy debate.

We will monitor this thread and will lock the thread if needed.


Anyway, my son's Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu intructor is a BART police officer and had the chance to talk to him tonight after my son's belt graduation. I feel so bad for him.... he is as good of man as I have met in a long time and it has been a very rough several days for him and his colleagues. He is really stressed and sad. He had things thrown at him while sitting down for lunch today with a fellow officer and their are continually yelled at and harassed as they are in public. Really sad. Certainly not as sad as the victim for sure, but I hate to see good people pay for the crime of one f'ing shithole

That is sad, and it's terrible that the rest of the guys have to work 10 times as hard to gain a good reputation for one act of cowardice. But sadly that's just how people are going to vent, I just hope one of the good ones doesn't really get harmed or killed due to built up frustrations over that other guy.

So Bada, as an "AMERICAN.....F*CK YEAH!!!"............do you support the millitary in its entirety?

Also, isnt this troll on a warning for insults much less offensive, mind boggling, pointless and ignorant than the ones his dished out in here?

bigstrads wrote:So Bada, as an "AMERICAN.....F*CK YEAH!!!"............do you support the millitary in its entirety?

I would not say that I support the millitary BLINDLY and ENTIRELY as a blanket statement but I have the utmost respect for our soldiers and the job they do. I understand not all of them are good people and some of them may have less than genuine agenda's but that goes for the entire population as a whole.

I CERTAINLY do not support the war efforts in Iraq but the soldiers themselves have my respect and gratitude. I just feel bad for those that gave their lives fighting an unjust war.

bigstrads wrote:Also, isnt this troll on a warning for insults much less offensive, mind boggling, pointless and ignorant than the ones his dished out in here?

Yes, he has been warned but I personally dont feel like his insults here are more mind boggling or pointless. His attack on 8th ave in the New Years thread was COMPLETELY uncalled for. I think in this case, he has a very strong opinion in this matter and he got emotional about it so I will cut him a little slack. When it comes to our troops, it can be a highly charged topic.

BUt I certainly wont let it continue

A horrific story- to shoot a man in the back is a sense-less act. Underserving to the young man, who's family and friends must now mourn and wonder what his life would have been.

My runnings with police have me believing majority of them in San Jose carry no respect towards African Americans.

When i was younger I would always hear about the injustice that the police placed on African Americans. (DWB), meaning DRIVING WHILE BLACK- the case in which alot of my black friends reported being pulled over and harrassed by cops and not get a valid reason for it , the stories of unnecessary force against blacks, the disrespect towards blacks by cops. As a young 18 year old i always relpyed no such thing has ever happened to me therefore i cannot complain about the cops. I always looked at cops as protectors of society.

This all changed once I personally encountered the cops from San Jose.It was a normal day me and my friend also black travelled to the East side of San Jose to pick up another one of our friends. On our way back 6-7 cop cars pulled us over at a near by resturant. At this point in time there were on-lookers with eyes glared on the 2 black teens, and my latino friend. Next thing you know we are ordered to get out our car, guns drawn from the cops, knees on the ground, in dis-belief my friend was asking out loud what was going on, and i remembered clearly a cop saying "if you do anything we will shot". We were hand cuffed placed in the back of the cop car. 5 minutes later we were let go out of the hand-cuffs, no explanation giving. Got their card to report them about the incident. We got no where with the police department on reporting our complaints.

This incident has imprinted in my mind the abuse of power coming from cops. I always think to my self i have never commited a crime, but a crime was commited towards me by people i thought were suppose to protect me. My life was in danger for no reason on my part, i was just in my regular routine. I remember the incident like yesterday, the guns drawn at me and my friends, the officer reporting he will shot if you do anything, the handcuffs, and then afterward,, at how they jsut brushed off the whole incident.

So I have my reasons for not respecting cops, I do respect the law but not the cops. Plus other incidents not this serious has me disliking the police.

warriorsstepup wrote:A horrific story- to shoot a man in the back is a sense-less act. Underserving to the young man, who's family and friends must now mourn and wonder what his life would have been.

My runnings with police have me believing majority of them in San Jose carry no respect towards African Americans.

When i was younger I would always hear about the injustice that the police placed on African Americans. (DWB) as they would say, meaning DRIVING WHILE BLACK- the case in which alot of my black friends reported they would get pulled over and harrassed by cops and not get a valid reason for been pulled over , the stories of unnecessary force against blacks, the disrespect towards blacks by cops. As a young 18 year old i always relpyed no such thing has ever happened to me therefore i cannot complain about the cops. I always looked at cops as protectors of society.

This all changed once I personally encountered the cops from San Jose.It was a normal day me and my friend also black travelled to the East side of San Jose to pick up another one of our friends. On our way back 6-7 cop cars pulled us over at a near by resturant. At this point in time there were on-lookers with eyes glared on the 2 black teens, and my latino friend. Next thing you know we are ordered to get out our car, guns drawn from the cops, knees on the ground, in dis-belief my friend was asking out loud what was going on, and i remembered clearly a cop saying "if you do anything we will shot". We were hand cuffed placed in the back of the cop car. 5 minutes later we were let go out of the hand-cuffs, no explanation giving. Got their card to report them about the incident. We got no where with the police department on reporting our complaints.

So I have my reasons for not respecting cops, I do respect the law but not the cops. Plus other incidents not this serious has me disliking the police.

I used to have similar issues out there in san jose as well, and you know why they have been able to get away with that **** for so long? the label as one of Americas safest big cities. I believe that those statistics are justification for them profiling and so it is somewhat allowed.

How sad. I suspect it was a moment of panic, or choking as we say in the sporting world, but that doesn't make it better. Many lives are ruined and no jail sentence will make up for it. And yet people want vengeance, of course. There is no easy solution.

Anyone read about the near rioting that went down in response.

Its sickening to see animals messing things up by burning cars and saying things like "We live a life of fear, and we want them to be afraid tonight."

RobDIKUM wrote:

warriorsstepup wrote:A horrific story- to shoot a man in the back is a sense-less act. Underserving to the young man, who's family and friends must now mourn and wonder what his life would have been.

My runnings with police have me believing majority of them in San Jose carry no respect towards African Americans.

When i was younger I would always hear about the injustice that the police placed on African Americans. (DWB) as they would say, meaning DRIVING WHILE BLACK- the case in which alot of my black friends reported they would get pulled over and harrassed by cops and not get a valid reason for been pulled over , the stories of unnecessary force against blacks, the disrespect towards blacks by cops. As a young 18 year old i always relpyed no such thing has ever happened to me therefore i cannot complain about the cops. I always looked at cops as protectors of society.

This all changed once I personally encountered the cops from San Jose.It was a normal day me and my friend also black travelled to the East side of San Jose to pick up another one of our friends. On our way back 6-7 cop cars pulled us over at a near by resturant. At this point in time there were on-lookers with eyes glared on the 2 black teens, and my latino friend. Next thing you know we are ordered to get out our car, guns drawn from the cops, knees on the ground, in dis-belief my friend was asking out loud what was going on, and i remembered clearly a cop saying "if you do anything we will shot". We were hand cuffed placed in the back of the cop car. 5 minutes later we were let go out of the hand-cuffs, no explanation giving. Got their card to report them about the incident. We got no where with the police department on reporting our complaints.

So I have my reasons for not respecting cops, I do respect the law but not the cops. Plus other incidents not this serious has me disliking the police.

I used to have similar issues out there in san jose as well, and you know why they have been able to get away with that **** for so long? the label as one of Americas safest big cities. I believe that those statistics are justification for them profiling and so it is somewhat allowed.

I see you are also from San Jose, what part ? Am sure if we ask a young African American or Latino resident in San Jose about their experience with cops, am sure they will mention something negative about them. Cops are notorious for profiling blacks and latinos which has been known for years. Its just a statastic until you are personally affected by the profiling, followed by cops abuse if power. Its almost as if cops have it against blacks and Latinos, as if they are trained to talk down on them, and have what ever way they want with them.

So you also went through similar issues, i feel for you because i know how that feels, its so degrading, feeling almost powerless. The whole safest Big city label put on San Jose, does give the police leeway in harrassing people and making there life miserable.

saintdee wrote:Anyone read about the near rioting that went down in response.

Its sickening to see animals messing things up by burning cars and saying things like "We live a life of fear, and we want them to be afraid tonight."

Animals ? How would you react if your Mother, Father, Daughter, Sister, orbest friend, was shot dead in the back, what would be your reaction ? HuH ?