ATHEIST/AGNOSTIC COUNTRIES MOST PEACEFUL ACCORDING 2 STUDIES

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 5:57 pm
I have to give countries with very high numbers of atheists their props. They are the most peaceful countries in the world. Low crime rates, generally peaceful to other nations, and more than anything, they have a very high standard of living. Here is the list of the top nine most atheist/agnostic nations in the world...


http://www.adherents.com/largecom/com_atheist.html

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All these nations have high standards of living and a crime rate religious countries would die for, such as the United States, lol. This seems to fly in the face of people who say you NEED RELIGION in order to make you a better person. Proof is seen in another website that has found that countries with a high atheist/agnostic population tend to have lower poverty rates, crime rates, and gender equality than religious countries, as well as low homicide rates.


http://www.gadling.com/2007/08/23/least-religious-countries/



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PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 6:02 pm
wow, MORE shocking news on nations with very high numbers of atheists....


Religion fosters bad behavior
http://www.humaniststudies.org/enews/index.html?id=219&article=7

Several weeks ago, a ground-breaking study on religious belief and social well-being was published in the Journal of Religion & Society. Comparing 18 prosperous democracies from the U.S. to New Zealand, author Gregory S Paul quietly demolished the myth that faith strengthens society.

Drawing on a wide range of studies to cross-match faith – measured by belief in God and acceptance of evolution – with homicide and sexual behavior, Paul found that secular societies have lower rates of violence and teenage pregnancy than societies where many people profess belief in God.

Top of the class, in both atheism and good behavior, come the Japanese. Over eighty percent accept evolution and fewer than ten percent are certain that God exists. Despite its size – over a hundred million people – Japan is one of the least crime-prone countries in the world. It also has the lowest rates of teenage pregnancy of any developed nation.

(Teenage pregnancy has less tragic consequences than violence but it is usually unwanted, and it is frequently associated with deprivation among both mothers and children. In general, it is a Bad Thing.)

Next in line are the Norwegians, British, Germans and Dutch. At least sixty percent accept evolution as a fact and fewer than one in three are convinced that there is a deity. There is little teenage pregnancy , although the Brits, with over 40 pregnancies per 1,000 girls a year, do twice as badly as the others. Homicide rates are also low -- around 1-2 victims per 100,000 people a year.

At the other end of the scale comes America. Over 50 percent of Americans believe in God, and only 40 percent accept some form of evolution (many believe it had a helping hand from the Deity). The U.S. has the highest rate of teenage pregnancy and homicide rates are at least five times greater than in Europe and ten times higher than in Japan.

All this information points to a strong correlation between faith and antisocial behavior -- a correlation so strong that there is good reason to suppose that religious belief does more harm than good.

At first glance that is a preposterous suggestion, given that religions preach non-violence and sexual restraint. However, close inspection reveals a different story. Faith tends to weaken rather than strengthen people’s ability to participate in society. That makes it less likely they will respect social customs and laws.

All believers learn that God holds them responsible for their actions. So far so good, but for many, belief absolves them of all other responsibilities. Consciously or subconsciously, those who are "born again" or "chosen" have diminished respect for others who do not share their sect or their faith. Convinced that only the Bible offers "truth", they lose their intellectual curiosity and their ability to reason. Their priority becomes not the world they live in but themselves.

The more people prioritize themselves rather than those around them, the weaker society becomes and the greater the likelihood of antisocial behavior. Hence gun laws which encourage Americans to see each other not as fellow human beings who deserve protection, but as potential aggressors who deserve to die. And hence a health care system which looks after the wealthy rather than the ill.

As for sex… Faith encourages ignorance rather than responsible behavior. In other countries, sex education includes contraception, reducing the risk of unwanted pregnancies. Such an approach recognizes that young people have the right to make their own choices and helps them make decisions that benefit society as a whole. In America faith-driven abstinence programs deny them that right -- "As a Christian I will only help you if you do what I say". The result is soaring rates of unwanted pregnancy and sexually transmitted infections.

Abstinence programs rest on the same weak intellectual foundation as creationism and intelligent design. Faith discourages unprejudiced analysis. Reasoning is subverted to rationalization that supports rather than questions assumptions. The result is a self-contained system that maintains an internal logic, no matter how absurd to outside observers.

The constitutional wall that theoretically separates church and state is irrelevant. Religion has overwhelmed the nation to permeate all public discussion. Look no further than Gary Bauer, a man who in any other western nation would be dismissed as a fanatic and who in America is interviewed deferentially on prime time television.

Despite all its fine words, religion has brought in its wake little more than violence, prejudice and sexual disease. True morality is found elsewhere. As UK Guardian columnist George Monbiot concluded in his review of Gregory Paul’s study, "if you want people to behave as Christians advocate, you should tell them that God does not exist."

I might express that another way. The flip side of Monbiot's argument is that God would be an atheist...


Journal of Religion & Society study:
http://moses.creighton.edu/JRS/2005/2005-11.html
George Monbiot's review:
http://www.monbiot.com/archives/2005/10/11/better-off-without-him/#more-954

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 6:41 pm
Says it all...............makes complete sense and I am so glad that you found this and posted it, lol............makes me laugh. :wink:

One of the things I enjoy most in life is talking to religous people and being able to circumnavigate any argument they have for their beliefs, with a few simple facts............but when they realise they are beat its always "Well, thats what faith is for"...........and at that point I just laugh.

Ahh humans.............aint we great! :banghead:
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 7:53 pm
One of the biggest problems that I have with religion is the lack of proof that corroborates their beliefs. In 5,000 years, there is NOTHING that proves anything. I go to a Christian school, but I am not a Christian, and I have fun picking at them.

Bigs, what are some of your points that you make? You can PM them to me if you want.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 8:08 pm
sfsfsfgiants wrote:One of the biggest problems that I have with religion is the lack of proof that corroborates their beliefs. In 5,000 years, there is NOTHING that proves anything. I go to a Christian school, but I am not a Christian, and I have fun picking at them.

Bigs, what are some of your points that you make? You can PM them to me if you want.


Will do man, Ill do it tomorrow...........man its fun, youll have a ball with your Christian deluded friends! :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 10:44 pm
bigstrads wrote:
sfsfsfgiants wrote:One of the biggest problems that I have with religion is the lack of proof that corroborates their beliefs. In 5,000 years, there is NOTHING that proves anything. I go to a Christian school, but I am not a Christian, and I have fun picking at them.

Bigs, what are some of your points that you make? You can PM them to me if you want.


Will do man, Ill do it tomorrow...........man its fun, youll have a ball with your Christian deluded friends! :mrgreen:




i am a christian and its easter day .
i have no proof and i have no desire for arguements.

there was a time in my life that i felt like i had no hope i grew up in a family who had a dad who spent time in vietnam (spelling?) i had two parents on drugs and i didnt feel loved... so i raised up on my own
left home at 16 married at 18 3 years latter divorced , due to me cheating. I found myself alone AGAIN .... i tried the club seen i tried buying it as i have always done well in monitary ways. i still felt unloved...
one day i visited a church in hopes of finding a "good girl" i didnt find her instead i found a God who is alive RISEN from the dead WHO LOVED ME.

so my point some do well without Christ I do better with him.
Maybee im weak (thats ok with me), I am a way better person with him than without him.

doesnt make me a freak doesnt make me a right winger it makes me loved...imo its what we all desire
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 10:48 pm
Noone should be surprised by these statistics. Mind control in all its forms has always been destructive
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 11:16 pm
JOEL, no one is accusing you of being weak, a freak, or a right winger. The only reason I posted this was to prove that one doesn't NEED religion to possess morals and rightful judgement.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 11:21 pm
One more thing that I would like to add so that you guys dont get me wrong. I will question other religions. I will make you think about it. However, I know that line that is drawn, and I will not cross it. I have respect for people's religions, no matter what it is.

One thing that really irks me, growing up in a Christian school is the belief that it is the ONLY way to function. I dont agree with that. We are reading "Mere Christianity" and CS Lewis makes point after point about Christianity vs the rest of the world, and how there is no comparison. I will point out bad point after bad point to show that there is a comparison, and it is something to keep in mind.

For example, one thing that CS Lewis said, and I paraphraise, is that "you cant love your neighbor unless you love yourself. You cant love yourself unless you love God. You cant love God without coming to accept him. You cant come to accept him without making an honest effort to search..." That type of thing. I had a field day with that, saying that Lewis is saying that, if you arent a Christian, and dont accept God, you cant love your neighbor. Without God, he says, you cant love your wife, your kids? The other 7 BILLION people who arent Christians are incapable of love? That is utter bullsh*t.

My view on religion is that it is a comfort for the world. If we have a religion, we dont have to worry about anything. The god that we believe in will deal with it. We wont be scared of death. That god will help us no matter what. They will deal with whatever needs to get dealt with. I would love to believe in something. I just cant, at this time, and I get ridiculed a lot at school for it. :roll:

I dont know how that got broughten up, but... whatever. :wink:
Last edited by sfsfsfgiants on Sun Mar 23, 2008 11:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 11:22 pm
i got you speak just wanted to say how i felt to any potential haters
thats it
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 11:23 pm
JOEL wrote:i got you speak just wanted to say how i felt to any potential haters
thats it


Nah, man. As I said before, I try to respect everybody's beliefs. It can be very close to people, and I wont do that to a person.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 11:28 pm
sfsfsfgiants wrote:One more thing that I would like to add so that you guys dont get me wrong. I will question other religions. I will make you think about it. However, I know that line that is drawn, and I will not cross it. I have respect for people's religions, no matter what it is.

One thing that really irks me, growing up in a Christian school is the belief that it is the ONLY way to function. I dont agree with that. We are reading "Mere Christianity" and CS Lewis makes point after point about Christianity vs the rest of the world, and how there is no comparison. I will point out bad point after bad point to show that there is a comparison, and it is something to keep in mind.

For example, one thing that CS Lewis said, and I paraphraise, is that "you cant love your neighbor unless you love yourself. You cant love yourself unless you love God. You cant love God without coming to accept him. You cant come to accept him without making an honest effort to search..." That type of thing. I had a field day with that, saying that Lewis is saying that, if you arent a Christian, and dont accept God, you cant love your neighbor. Without God, he says, you cant love your wife, your kids? The other 7 BILLION people who arent Christians are incapable of love? That is utter bullsh*t.

My view on religion is that it is a comfort for the world. If we have a religion, we dont have to worry about anything. The god that we believe in will deal with it. We wont be scared of death. That god will help us no matter what. They will deal with whatever needs to get dealt with. I would love to believe in something. I just cant, at this time, and I get ridiculed a lot at school for it. :roll:

I dont know how that got broughten up, but... whatever. :wink:



sf3 wow bro my props to you :D :D :D
cs mere christianity is fn deep.. i read it once it was a little over my head..
and i was coming at it from a differnt vantage..as i had already bought into it...so what i took away was so dif. anyways props as that is a deep read :D :D :D
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 11:41 pm
JOEL wrote:
sfsfsfgiants wrote:One more thing that I would like to add so that you guys dont get me wrong. I will question other religions. I will make you think about it. However, I know that line that is drawn, and I will not cross it. I have respect for people's religions, no matter what it is.

One thing that really irks me, growing up in a Christian school is the belief that it is the ONLY way to function. I dont agree with that. We are reading "Mere Christianity" and CS Lewis makes point after point about Christianity vs the rest of the world, and how there is no comparison. I will point out bad point after bad point to show that there is a comparison, and it is something to keep in mind.

For example, one thing that CS Lewis said, and I paraphraise, is that "you cant love your neighbor unless you love yourself. You cant love yourself unless you love God. You cant love God without coming to accept him. You cant come to accept him without making an honest effort to search..." That type of thing. I had a field day with that, saying that Lewis is saying that, if you arent a Christian, and dont accept God, you cant love your neighbor. Without God, he says, you cant love your wife, your kids? The other 7 BILLION people who arent Christians are incapable of love? That is utter bullsh*t.

My view on religion is that it is a comfort for the world. If we have a religion, we dont have to worry about anything. The god that we believe in will deal with it. We wont be scared of death. That god will help us no matter what. They will deal with whatever needs to get dealt with. I would love to believe in something. I just cant, at this time, and I get ridiculed a lot at school for it. :roll:

I dont know how that got broughten up, but... whatever. :wink:



sf3 wow bro my props to you :D :D :D
cs mere christianity is fn deep.. i read it once it was a little over my head..
and i was coming at it from a differnt vantage..as i had already bought into it...so what i took away was so dif. anyways props as that is a deep read :D :D :D


It is very deep. For most of my things, I can just breeze through it, and have the basic understanding. Maybe read five pages in five minutes or so. Not so with that. With reading and taking notes on it, five pages is about a half hour to fourty-five minutes.

We have to read and have a socratic seminar about it the next day. We have nothing else to do in the entire semester but read, and our entire grade is based on it, so I need to make sure that I understand it. :wink:
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 12:56 am
IMO - I believe religion is created and practiced for many different reasons here are a few:

- To explain the unexplainable.
- To make help individuals become better people.
- To help people accept death and make them feel better about it.

The last reason is the main one IMO, I'm not going to get deep on this subject, I just though I could offer a different angle.

If a religion can help a person better themselves than I am all for it, and I never look down on anyone based on their religious beliefs. I do feel as though it has, in many ways, caused more harm than good, maybe not in quantity but quality - wars, genocide, persecution, ect.

Myself, am an agnostic. I believe in the possibility of a higher power, but need evidence of it. I also believe that not being religious doesn't make you a bad person and it certainly doesn't make you a good one either (obvious sentence). I think the real evil individuals are those who knowingly fabricate religion for whatever reasons.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 4:04 am
JReed23 wrote:If a religion can help a person better themselves than I am all for it


That's the key. JOEL's story, posted above, is proof enough of how religion can improve a person's life. There's no possible way to say that's a bad thing.


There's a bad side to it, tho:

sfsfsfgiants wrote:One thing that really irks me, growing up in a Christian school is the belief that it is the ONLY way to function.


And that's exactly the problem. When somebody (it can be a single person, a group or the whole structure of that religion) tries to impose a religion over other people, that's when it becomes a dangerous thing.

If somebody finds that believing in something, anything (well, with limits... those of basic human rights, of course) helps him deal with his daily life, I'm ok with it. When anybody tells me that my ways are wrong, that there's only one right way to live... that stops being an acceptable way of religion. That's just another form of intolerance.

With that said, an intolerant atheist is as bad as a religious zealot.
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