migya wrote: The Old Testament is especially violent and sexually perverted, all with the consent and demand of the biblical god! Hard to interpret that any different

Old Testament .. definitely difficult to read ... I think ... cover to cover.

Interestingly enough though, my Biblical observation may or may not be unique. My overall sense of the Old Testament was a demonstration of how "humanlike" god "had" a tendency to behave. My interpretation ... there are DEFINITELY other things going on in the Old Testament ... but there were some changes, my perception, made by God.

I don't want to say he F***** UP you understand ... that may not be the correct biblical interpretation , especially when one considers The Wisdom Of Solomon and many other important things ... HOWEVER ... BUTT ...

The God of the New Testament behaves a GREAT DEAL DIFFERENTLY ... to me .. than the God of the Old Testament.

I'll ASK Him what he thinks about that NOW ô¿~

migya wrote:

I don't think any of this, I just read all the bible (a very boring and tedious thing to do) and after all the killing of tribes and thousands of people by the Jews (all commanded by the biblical god) and the sexual perversion (including incest) ordered and commended by the biblical god - I came to the conclusion as you would with anything obvious!

Gotta research and not be a blind follower of anything and only then will you uncover the truth!



Here is a link that is interesting = http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/index.html

oh trust me i did my research.

i went from athiestic all my life to a christian. and im a quite stubborn person so its not easy to just CONVINCE me that this is the truth/the way about anything-- BUT im also a person with an OPEN mind to everything given that it is clearly proven and i'll be the first to admit i was wrong.. im not one of the kids who grew up a christian because theyre parents were.. quite simply because my parents are NOT christians. so i am a christian today based on my own time and overviewing different religions in the world and learning more and more over time.

Old Testament. Sexual Perversion, Incest at the temples -- because the people had stray away from the Lord and plan their lives for themselves.

Tribes Killing each other -- same thing. Show me several verses of you seeing that it was God commanding the Tribes killing each other. Maybe i can shed light and bring some perspective.

well your probably thinking how about the sacrifice of animals? that law pertains before the permanent Lamb's sacrifice - Jesus Christ. Temporary solution for the sinful people of the World to be able to have a relationship with a perfect God.

and that link i did take a look at and i can see alot of verses are misinterpreted and sometimes not clearly taken into proper context. i'll help you out miggy if you have any questions.

SoCooLBob wrote:

migya wrote: The Old Teastament is especially violent and sexually perverted, all with the consent and demand of the biblical god! Hard to interpret that any different

Old Testament .. definitely difficult to read ... I think ... cover to cover.

Interestingly enough though, my Biblical observation may or may not be unique. My overall sense of the Old Testament was a demonstration of how "humanlike" god "had" a tendency to behave. My interpretation ... there are DEFINITELY other things going on in the Old Testament ... but there were some changes, my perception, made by God.

I don't want to say he F***** UP you understand ... that may not be the correct biblical interpretation , especially when one considers The Wisdom Of Solomon and many other important things ... HOWEVER ... BUTT ...

The God of the New Testament behaves a GREAT DEAL DIFFERENTLY ... to me .. than the God of the Old Testament.

Both testaments are full of it!!!!

Humanlike god, you mean that in an imperfect being form (that is all you could mean because of all the wrong doings) = How can that be that all powerful and perfect is so imperfect and wrong!
If that was the cae, we're all screwed

Oh, and the New Testament god beheves differently - Perfect and all mighty being would not change so the fact here is = Different authors of two pieces of jargon!!!! Obvious!!!!

SoCooLBob wrote:I'll ASK Him what he thinks about that NOW ô¿~

Yea, you do that Bob! You know some priks are put in asylums for that sort of talk!

Oh yeah, I must tell you that God is a fair God.

He will bring Justice to those who have been wrong.

He is perfect and cannot deal with sin.

So in the Old Testament, you see the Lord bringning Justice firsthand.
The Bible is not contradictory -- for it states taht "for the wages of sin is death"

And yes, death is brought upon those who have strayed away from the LORD and walked their life in the way of evil and Satan. why? because God is fair, and just. He will not punish WITHOUT a FAIR given reason. Because He is a fair God. He is a loving God. He is a caring God. He is a patient God. He is a just God. and i think thats the biggest thing people might have a problem with -- the justice part.

Then you might ask well arent we all imperfect. Yes. of course i know i made mistakes, i've done plenty of wrong. But if you fully commit and repent in the name of Christ then you are given a new hope.

Let me ask, would a Perfect God let the way of the wicked go unpunish?

Justice in the New Testament is a different way and style. It shall come in the second coming of Christ, whereas the Old Testmanet you might see punishments as more Direct & Firsthand. and Justice in the New Testament has not come yet, but it will happen.

GOD has not CHANGED in anyform since O.T. to the N.T.

but the way and the road is a bit different becasue of the sacrifice of Christ.

I've never been a forceful Christian who wants to force religion.
I always believe that some people already have made it up in the mind that they will not believe in The Bible no matter how right it is or how truthful it is. So thats why I do my best to try to help shed light, clarify, help others learn about Christianity accurately.

I agree with both of you when you say "my interpretation" as God's behavior more human like ... more imperfect ... changing ... is undoubtedly not ACCURATE. That is really the reason I said "impression" or tried to describe that this was my reaction to the reading of the Old Testament

The idea that he screwed up ...
The Garden Of Eden ... Why didn't that work? I'm not asking that question for a biblical or correct "interpretation" ... but from a desire to describe my impression that this God didn't create something that "seemed" to work perfectly.

My point, also, is ... that he behaved in ways humans do ... he created the whole thing you do know ... and therefore he created the wars and the perversion and you should excuse the expression the pestilence ... I have often said that The Bible says ... in many ways ... that God created Evil.

I do also understand there's a Goodness in that.

My point again. My impression of God as a more "imperfect' being in the sense that The Garden Of Eden ... OK .. Let's try this ... The Flood ... Or Was It A War Or A Fire ... etc. OK .. Let's try The RULES thing. I'll tell you what you can and can't do ... etc. From an impression standpoint ... The Rules thing didn't work ... doesn't work either. I do know. That was the plan. Hello ? OK

Me ... having a distinct preference for the goal oriented, behavioral approach sees Jesus Christ and says ...

AHA ... Now THAT is THE FORMULA !!!

I don't see a lot of those role models on the ground, but ... as a person who has "tendencies" toward behavior I do see The Perfect Role Model ... and I do see EVERY EVIDENCE of BEHAVIOR that should WORK ... at least, of course, according to me.

HE THE MAN
I wanna shoot free throws like Him!



And ... by the way.
The test of a thing from a behaviorialist standpoint ... is in the doing.
The test of a thing is it's having been done.
There's really only ONE way that I know of, that a person can test for themself, the truth or the false nature of whether Jesus Christ exists.

It Is ... God Lord Willing ... Exactly Like Shooting Free Throws

If a person wants to discover the truth of Jesus Christ, they must, and they simply must, ASK Jesus Christ to come in to THEIR life ... and then see what happens.

I will continue to submit, I will ALWAYS submit, that the real critical thing that occurs, occurs when the ball goes in the basket.

SoCooLBob wrote:I agree with both of you when you say "my interpretation" as God's behavior more human like ... more imperfect ... changing ... is undoubtedly not ACCURATE. That is really the reason I said "impression" or tried to describe that this was my reaction to the reading of the Old Testament

The idea that he screwed up ...
The Garden Of Eden ... Why didn't that work? I'm not asking that question for a biblical or correct "interpretation" ... but from a desire to describe my impression that this God didn't create something that "seemed" to work perfectly.

My point, also, is ... that he behaved in ways humans do ... he created the whole thing you do know ... and therefore he created the wars and the perversion and you should excuse the expression the pestilence ... I have often said that The Bible says ... in many ways ... that God created Evil.

I do also understand there's a Goodness in that.

My point again. My impression of God as a more "imperfect' being in the sense that The Garden Of Eden ... OK .. Let's try this ... The Flood ... Or Was It A War Or A Fire ... etc. OK .. Let's try The RULES thing. I'll tell you what you can and can't do ... etc. From an impression standpoint ... The Rules thing didn't work ... doesn't work either. I do know. That was the plan. Hello ? OK

Me ... having a distinct preference for the goal oriented, behavioral approach sees Jesus Christ and says ...

AHA ... Now THAT is THE FORMULA !!!

I don't see a lot of those role models on the ground, but ... as a person who has "tendencies" toward behavior I do see The Perfect Role Model ... and I do see EVERY EVIDENCE of BEHAVIOR that should WORK ... at least, of course, according to me.

HE THE MAN
I wanna shoot free throws like Him!

its not that God created something that wasnt perfect. He gave man freewill.

keyword freewill. and freewill to choose Him or the way of evil.

freewill was what caused downfall of man.
freewill is what makes us not robots, but really an individual and have a choice of choosing Him [and the only way it should be which makes perfect sense why he gave us freewill]
God wanted the love expressed to him from mankind to be genuine, true, and understanding; not systematic.

you are right though socoolbob that Jesus is the perfect rolemodel.
he's the formula. the way mankind should be and act.
Christianity might be the only thing that i can say that will definitely work for everyone given that they have an open-heart and mind, with a desire to learn about God and Jesus from an unbiased perspective.

No change can ever happen if the person has a hard heart with a closed-mind.

I know this, because I use to be a skeptic of Christianity. But as i matured i opened my mind and heart and did extensive research first-hand with others around the community for 3 1/2 years [from churches, college students, community centers to those who were critics of Christianity].

I came into it knowing that if i wasn't 100% confident that the Bible is 100% true, then i would not be a Christian. And the rest is history.

Free Will is what makes it possible to have ...

A SoCooL Moment

What the world needs now, in my very humble opinion, is more folks who can Walk On Water or perhaps Sand

SoCooLBob wrote:And ... by the way.
The test of a thing from a behaviorialist standpoint ... is in the doing.
The test of a thing is it's having been done.
There's really only ONE way that I know of, that a person can test for themself, the truth or the false nature of whether Jesus Christ exists.

It Is ... God Lord Willing ... Exactly Like Shooting Free Throws

If a person wants to discover the truth of Jesus Christ, they must, and they simply must, ASK Jesus Christ to come in to THEIR life ... and then see what happens.

I will continue to submit, I will ALWAYS submit, that the real critical thing that occurs, occurs when the ball goes in the basket.

I cant quite possibly say that any better because you are SO right. To discover is to experience. Thats how you can find out Jesus Christ for yourself. Seek and you shall find.

No change can ever occur if the person has a hard-heart and a closed-mind.

One of the wisest things I have heard bob.

I really like this guy.
I really like his "image" ... the way he "carries" himself, the way he "talks" ... you know me and "impressions."

I hope he has the opportunity to live up to the best he can be.
I believe that has to be by focusing on positives.
And I don't care if the best he can be is some kind of superstar {although it would certainly seem that's possible} ... being the best he can be ... serving others. Taking the ball to the hole or from the air if need be.

There may be some more negatives on this road. There always are.
I just hope this guy can find a way to stay healthy and play great basketball ... block out the negatives .. 'cause I think he's the kind that can do more, on and off the court. It would be nice if the whole team would rise up to that.

You don't think this could be the year do you?

kfresh wrote:I came into it knowing that if i wasn't 100% confident that the Bible is 100% true, then i would not be a Christian. And the rest is history.

I believe that is 100 percent correct.
I find, I have enough difficulty "representing" the strength and nature of my conviction ... without knowing that I couldn't say it ... if it weren't as reasonably certain as I will ever know how to get ... to the truth.

http://www.socool.com/interact/messiah.html

Is to me an incredible document.
And, I don't believe, it would be described, as specifically Christian

It describes very well, one or two incidences in my life, that deal with direct contact with God ... and then asks for peoples experiences.
During the period the document {s} were being created ... I can assure YOU and anyone who might chose to ASK, that each and every one of these "messages," and others, came to me as a message from God.

Intellectually, Shaquille O'Neal might even ask .. why wouldn't they ô¿~

They do. They did. To Me Certainly

Don't try to send me another "testimonial." Just kidding.
I really don't post any dramatically new stuff on any of SoCô¿ôL's formerly highly interactive pages. Instead, post your response on The GoldenStWarriors.Com Bulletin Board The closest thing to ...










The World Series Of Poker

I'm not going to add anything to this thread. Talking about religion only serves for trouble. When someone believes something that gets in conflict with other people's beliefs, there's trouble without exception, and usually it ends pretty bad. That will never change.

So I just try to respect as much as I can other people beliefs, and try not to argue about anything as personal as that. It's pointless.

Nothing makes me quite so irate as conversations about religion....except maybe politics. 32 has said it, and I think I'll repeat it. People have a right to believe whatever they want without being pushed to see the "error" of their ways.

Personally I was brought up Lutheran and went through sunday school and the whole nine yards of church life. Read the bible, studied the bible in bible studies and blah blah blah blah blah. My parents however were not overly religious, from what they've told me since they just wanted to give me a solid grounding in religion and let me make up my own mind along the way. Thats exactly what happened.

I am personally not a fan of organised religion, though I do not begrudge anyone that has chosen that path. I think with most everything in life their are two halves. Within organised religion of all denominations I see people for whom their religion is a crutch, but for everyone of those people I see someone whose religion is merely another fulfilling part of their life....not all consuming.

Much the same with so called fundamentalists within religion, they are only one side of the coin, the other side of that coin, do not seek to push their religion on you but share what they see as wisdom and truth.

This of course can be translated to almost everything in life. There is always give and take or yin and yang. As someone a whole lot smarter than me once said. "For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction". Perhaps this is why my beliefs have "evolved" the way they have.

I find merit in the thought of an all powerful, all seeing Deity. Something about that just rings true. Do I have any proof to support this opinion?? Nope, not one shred...I guess I'll just take it on faith.

As for peoples talk about scripture and the bible...I have to say I'm a little reticent about taking the Bible's text as fact. It has been translated and played with too many times to be considered "pure". If any of you aren't sure what I mean when I say played with, please see this link...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Council_of_Nicaea

That said, anyone who has faith in the message of the Bible, more power to you, because I could very well be talking out of my ass.

In my life I've had alot of people tell me why their particular denomination was the "true" faith as well as friends tell me why evolution is the be all and end all of life as we know it. I personally don't see what is so wrong with marrying the two of these ideas together. Who says the first two sentient beings to live and breath weren't Adam and Eve? But by the same token, whos to say that they were "Human" as we know it?

I like to think that there is an all powerful being or beings up there controlling the fates somewhat....that said, if their are "Gods" do they have Diety's?? or are they IT. Some say that the universe is infinite, if thats the case, why can't our Gods have Gods??

Ok, I think I may be starting to ramble somewhat now, so I will leave you guys with a few more "nuggets" of my crappy dime store "wisdom". Some of the most narrow minded people I have met in my life portrayed themselves as free thinkers and completely open minded while talking down to me for my "simple" ideas. Smacks of hypocrisy doesn't it? Secondly, people need to stop worrying so much about what the other guy is doing and start thinking about how to really LIVE their own lives.

Anyways, sorry for the crappy psychobabble.

Hope Everyones having a good night,

Carl.

breezer_79 wrote:Secondly, people need to stop worrying so much about what the other guy is doing and start thinking about how to really LIVE their own lives.

Yeah, I also think as much... Life would be a lot easier and everybody would be much happier with a bit of common sense.

the trouble with talking about religion with the majority of people in todays era is there are quite a few stubburn minded people out there who will not change their beliefs no matter what happens.

i believe if everyone is just open minded, considerate, and respectful to each other while discussing religion -- then there will definitely be no problems.

those three things go a LONG way

TMC wrote:I'm not going to add anything to this thread. Talking about religion only serves for trouble. When someone believes something that gets in conflict with other people's beliefs, there's trouble without exception, and usually it ends pretty bad. That will never change.

So I just try to respect as much as I can other people beliefs, and try not to argue about anything as personal as that. It's pointless.

breezer_79 wrote:Nothing makes me quite so irate as conversations about religion....except maybe politics. 32 has said it, and I think I'll repeat it. People have a right to believe whatever they want without being pushed to see the "error" of their ways.

Anyways, sorry for the crappy psychobabble.
Carl.

I think that the things that Everyone has said so far are Excellent
I think it's important what people think?
There are results that individuals among us achieve, some better than others. There are results that some are able to achieve in groups.
Some things have not historically worked so well.
Classic examples in conversation that most people are familiar with, in their own experience and in what they've heard constantly from others ... can't really talk about .... TALK ABOUT ... politics and religion.

A part of the reason for that is relatively obvious.
If someone accidentally stumbled on ... or by some other means somehow was able to pronounce what actually was, if there is, truth ...
someone else in seemingly the smallest group ... would want or need to KILL HIM ... or HER, of course.


Thinking ... "That will never change"

Is something that may make things more difficult.

If a person ... and certainly if "people" ... one at a time, over and over again, begin from this place ... I would suggest, wonder, ASK, etc. if there isn't a TRUTH that it will be less probable to get to a different place? I'm not sure it matters What The Subject Is.



Heck, I've seen it where people "threw rocks" at other people over how they made their free throws ô¿~

If a human being, if human beings, in their mind, begin and end with this kind of premise ... they will be less likely to achieve theirs and/or other peoples goals ... as effectively as they could.

I "think" thats demonstratable.
And is demonstrated .. All The Time

being pushed to see the "error" of their ways ...

Is also, to my way of thinking, a very hard part.

Few of us, even the "best" of us, do this very well, very often AND it's these RESULTS, when we concentrate on the error of our ways, that don't come out so well. Actually ... my philosophy, if we can call it that for the moment, would suggest that noone SHOULD spend TOO MUCH TIME thinking on our ERRORS .. our WEAKNESSES ... on the errors of our ways.

The problem when we concentrate on our errors is ?

SoCô¿ôL Bob continually says the key to success is to have a positive vision of things working the way you would like them to work, the way you think they oughta work, the way you think they will come out the best, the way you think God is suggesting you to think. One way may be better than others. THE KEY for most of US includes STAY POSITIVE

Try doing that regularly ... about YOURSELF and OTHERS.

A negative becomes just one more thing crying out for a Positive Solution
I think it works, will work better, when more people "try" it more often.
Have you noticed ? That I think that?


Proverbs 17