BEEF: A. Jefferson and Gortat

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 31, 2010 10:48 am
Chum says:
I really disagree that AR is worth more than Gortat. I like AR, but he will never make a good center, and he will never be as large and powerful as Gortat.
Who ever said AR is a center? This is like comparing apples to oranges. Who would play AR at center? Only on the whim of a hairbrained, contrarian coach desperately looking for some temporary matchup advantage.
But ok, since you made the comparison. Randolph can easily be a 17-10 guy. How could Gortat score like that? Gortat can't run, handle the ball, pass and shoot like Randolph. But since we are talking Centers ( or front court players) Let's say the players in question all played 40 minutes. Here are their rebound rates for 40 minutes played.
Beans----15.4
Gortat----14.3
Jefferson-14.0
Randolph-13.8
At 20 years old Randolph is already rebounding on a par with Jefferson and Gortat, but not quite Beans.
Lets take blocks for 48 minutes:
Randolph---3.27
Gortat------3.21
Beans------3.11
Jefferson---1.49

Chum says:
I'm ok with sending Biedrins with Monta in the trade but I can't possibly see what Minnesota would send us in return for Beans


I think that's a stupid trade, what's the point to free up money ?, to do what? I'd trade Beans and Morrow for Jefferson, but Beans and Monta, ??? , what kind of fire sale is that?
Xbay, you rare right Jefferson doesn't fit in with Nelly's scheme, other than being an absolutely terrible defender. There are some other flaws in his game. He has a poor shooting efficiency for an inside scorer. He lobs a lot of lame shots, and never passes out. Biedrins by contrast has one of the highest assist rates among centers in the NBA.

The point I'm trying to get across is that this is a bit more complicated than it appears. I myself would MUCH rather have Kevin Love than Jefferson. He's a far superior rebounder to anyone mentioned, and would fit in perfectly with Randolph. I'd trade Beans or Maggette and Morrow for Love and fillers myself. Minnesota did say anyone's on the table. But realistically, they would prefer to deal Jefferson.

Beans lack of confidence and scoring, my god the free throws is defintely shaking me. But more important than anything, is his inability to hold his own with bigger centers. Gortat is not the answer, but another piece, because he can hold his own.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 31, 2010 10:57 am
OK nobody wants to get rid of AR, fair enough. I, like Migya, think AR will bolt when he gets an opportunity. Maybe a fatty contract, new coach, new owner can keep him here.

As far as new owners go, just the public announcement that Larry wants to buy the team should be enough for Nellie to pull the trigger on a big trade. The Warriors don't look like they will win enough games this season for Nellie to surpass Wilkins. The Warriors can't rebound, so even if they are shooting great they are losing. Nellie knows this. He also knows that if Larry buys the team Nellie probably won't get next season to break the all time wins record.

Nellie makes a big trade, that helps the Warriors, and retires with the all time win record. That's Nellie's best play atm.

Here's a simple trade that I don't think Minnesota would pass up, and it works in the Trade Machine...

Warriors Trade: Monta, B. Wright
T-Wolves Trade: A. Jefferson

WARRIORS 2010-2011
PG - Curry/CJ
SG - Azubuike/Evan Turner
SF - Maggette/Morrow
PF - AR/Turiaf
C - Jefferson/Biedrins

I'd still like to land Gortat somehow. He's too good to pass up trying to trade for since his team has put him on the block.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 31, 2010 11:06 am
War Years, I wasn't suggesting AR play center, I just value the center position higher than the PF or any other position. Thus I was giving Gortat a boon over AR in that respect.

Personally I think AR would be better suited for the SF spot. His combo of height, speed and agility could help him be one of the best defenders at a position where many teams have their 1st or 2nd scoring option.

A lineup like this would be scary for any opposing team...

PG - Stephen Curry 6'3
SG - Wesley Johnson 6'7"
SF - Anthony Randolph 6'11"
PF - Al Jefferson 6'10"
C - Marcin Gortat 6'11"

I don't see us getting Gortat without offering AR, but maybe something could be worked out?

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 10:17 am
OK nobody wants to get rid of AR, fair enough. I, like Migya, think AR will bolt when he gets an opportunity. Maybe a fatty contract, new coach, new owner can keep him here.

He's locked in through 2012. Nelson will be gone, a lot will happen. It's useless to speculate now on whether AR will bolt.
As far as the Gortat trade. I was hoping to sign him in the offseason. That was our best chance. Orlando should be looking for expirings. R. Lewis and V. Carter some of the biggest black hole contracts in the NBA. But I would guess they'll probably just try to get rid of one or boith of those guys directly. We would never want those guys.
Gortat and Bass for Maggette? They wouldn't want to assume that contract, Maggette and Morrow or Wright to sweeten that up? Somehow I don't think so either. They would never do a deal for expirings because they just signed Gortat to a long term contract.
War Years
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 10:33 am
I'm not so high on Gortat as anybody else. I mean, I saw him playing for Poland (probably the only place where gets extensive minutes) and, even tho he's a more than legit center, I don't see much room to develop, and everybody seemed to have an easy day scoring on him. Of course, he got his numbers as well, both rebounding and scoring, so he's certainly helpful and definitely starter material.

Guess I'm just saying he's just another piece of a contender, no worth overpaying for.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 01, 2010 7:50 pm
TMC wrote:I'm not so high on Gortat as anybody else. I mean, I saw him playing for Poland (probably the only place where gets extensive minutes) and, even tho he's a more than legit center, I don't see much room to develop, and everybody seemed to have an easy day scoring on him. Of course, he got his numbers as well, both rebounding and scoring, so he's certainly helpful and definitely starter material.

Guess I'm just saying he's just another piece of a contender, no worth overpaying for.


I don't we should "overpay" for any player. Pay what they are worth. What's Gortat worth? A lot more than Biedrins (whom I like btw). Gortat currently has a 5 year contract worth $5,854,000. That's a bargin imho.

I watched him play against portland this year. He's very fast and agile for a guy his size. Portland wasn't doing much of any scoring in the paint when he was on the court.

He's still young and he plays a little wild. I think as he matures he gain more control. He's a brute in the paint and we don't have anything like him on the team now. We need a tough center that can play D and rebound. He probably will never be a superstar, but I think he will be a long-term top-tier defensive center.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 12:22 am
Chum wrote:
TMC wrote:I'm not so high on Gortat as anybody else. I mean, I saw him playing for Poland (probably the only place where gets extensive minutes) and, even tho he's a more than legit center, I don't see much room to develop, and everybody seemed to have an easy day scoring on him. Of course, he got his numbers as well, both rebounding and scoring, so he's certainly helpful and definitely starter material.

Guess I'm just saying he's just another piece of a contender, no worth overpaying for.


I don't we should "overpay" for any player. Pay what they are worth. What's Gortat worth? A lot more than Biedrins (whom I like btw). Gortat currently has a 5 year contract worth $5,854,000. That's a bargin imho.

I watched him play against portland this year. He's very fast and agile for a guy his size. Portland wasn't doing much of any scoring in the paint when he was on the court.

He's still young and he plays a little wild. I think as he matures he gain more control. He's a brute in the paint and we don't have anything like him on the team now. We need a tough center that can play D and rebound. He probably will never be a superstar, but I think he will be a long-term top-tier defensive center.


Eh... I don't know if I agree. His contract is pretty good for somebody like him, that's for granted, but that's also a reason for Orlando not to trade him. They'd ask a lot for him, because he's, as you say, a bargain, and they know it.

And, about his D... I wasn't impressed at all. Didn't watch that Portland game, but the few games I saw, he was a below average defender, almost lazy...
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 10:51 pm
Chum wrote:
bigstrads wrote:Who was that kid who CONSTANTLY came up with trades from alternative universes and vast amounts of pointless/discussion-less threads?

Cuz I think old Fum here is a relative. :wink:


Isn't this the "Trades" section of the forums?

I guess I could just constantly complain about everything and make derogatory statements about players. Oh wait, bigs has that covered already.

Please go back to calling Cartier a "wuss" or perhaps you can partake in some sort of socialist activity back in the good old U.K. :wink:


hahahaha :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen: the torch has been passed.

hey guys, lets trade jax for david west, their contracts match and NO could really use jax for the following reasons.....

ah the memories

as far as this trade is concerned... I don't know I think we overhype Randy a little hear in the bay... the kid may turn out to just be average even though he has the tools to be great. but I'm still not for moving monta or AR right now. I want to see nelly get fired, cohan take over and get a real coach these guys can actually play for.

only guy I wouldn't mind moving is andris, but I think he's pretty unmovable at this point.
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