BayDevil wrote:Amare will not end up on the Ws. No big man to send to PHX and I can't imagine Maggs, Belenilli, Crawford or Wright being combined to make an enticing offer for Amare. That is if PHX even shops him.

Well the Suns are aging and fast. Wouldn't be surprised if Hill retires after this season, maybe next one when Shaq apparently has said he'll retire. That team wil need players to replace those guys and Nash is likely to go within two or three years as well. They might go for the talent the team can offer them

migya wrote:

BayDevil wrote:Amare will not end up on the Ws. No big man to send to PHX and I can't imagine Maggs, Belenilli, Crawford or Wright being combined to make an enticing offer for Amare. That is if PHX even shops him.

Well the Suns are aging and fast. Wouldn't be surprised if Hill retires after this season, maybe next one when Shaq apparently has said he'll retire. That team wil need players to replace those guys and Nash is likely to go within two or three years as well. They might go for the talent the team can offer them

Good points, I think it would be smart for the Sun's to try to trade down for younger guys but I see them getting a lot more than Wright, Belli, or Watson in return especially if you package those guys with Craw and Maggs who aren't old but aren't exactly youthful anymore either.

BayDevil wrote:

migya wrote:

BayDevil wrote:Amare will not end up on the Ws. No big man to send to PHX and I can't imagine Maggs, Belenilli, Crawford or Wright being combined to make an enticing offer for Amare. That is if PHX even shops him.

Well the Suns are aging and fast. Wouldn't be surprised if Hill retires after this season, maybe next one when Shaq apparently has said he'll retire. That team wil need players to replace those guys and Nash is likely to go within two or three years as well. They might go for the talent the team can offer them

Good points, I think it would be smart for the Sun's to try to trade down for younger guys but I see them getting a lot more than Wright, Belli, or Watson in return especially if you package those guys with Craw and Maggs who aren't old but aren't exactly youthful anymore either.

I just want to get rid of the priks

I won't make a new thread and just post this related article here:


Sources: Suns ponder deals for Stoudemire
By Adrian Wojnarowski, Yahoo! Sports

Perhaps signaling a willingness to dismantle their roster, the Phoenix Suns have begun exchanging trade proposals with teams for All-Star forward Amare Stoudemire, league executives told Yahoo! Sports on Thursday.

With dysfunction and dissension reigning within the Suns, rival front-office executives believe general manager Steve Kerr is determined to move Stoudemire and others before the Feb. 19 trade deadline.

While Stoudemire, 26, is the Suns’ most valuable asset, sources say Kerr has told teams that he’s willing to trade anyone on his roster except for point guard Steve Nash.

“Everyone is on the table but Nash,” one executive said.

Phoenix owner Robert Sarver has been more reluctant to part with Stoudemire and still hasn’t yet given his blessing to act on a Stoudemire proposal. Nevertheless, most believe that Sarver will inevitably do so.

While there will likely be some interest in a rejuvenated Shaquille O’Neal, it is Stoudemire, the enigmatic 6-foot-10, 250-pound forward, whom most NBA teams have an interest in acquiring.


If Kerr and assistant GM David Griffin do trade Stoudemire, a four-time All-Star, they want a combination of expiring contracts, a talented young player – preferably a forward – and draft picks. Stoudemire is expected to opt out of his contract for the historic free-agent summer of 2010. He makes $15 million this season and $16.3 million next season. His relationship with Suns management has steadily deteriorated and few expect that either side is interested in a contract extension.


Phoenix made the biggest move of the trade deadline a year ago, trading Shawn Marion for Shaquille O’Neal in a deal that the Suns believed could help them overtake the San Antonio Spurs and Los Angeles Lakers in the Western Conference. Yet, the Suns lost to the Spurs in the first round of the playoffs, which turned into a prelude to an acrimonious exit with coach Mike D’Antoni.

This season, Phoenix has struggled to a 26-21 record, which leaves them tied for the final playoff spot in the Western Conference. The Suns were blown out Wednesday night in Golden State, 124-112.


With O’Neal clogging the middle, Stoudemire has expressed frustration with a diminished offensive role. Stoudemire still flusters his GM and coach because of an unwillingness to commit to anything but scoring. Stoudemire’s scoring and rebounding averages have dropped this season, and he recently told Yahoo! Sports that he was struggling with an offense that features fewer pick-and-rolls for him, fewer touches in the low post.

“It is harder,” Stoudemire said. “When you’re in the flow, everything flows. When you’re not, sometimes it’s hard to get involved.”

After the loss to Golden State, Stoudemire told reporters, “To keep losing these games the way we are, it’s not fun. I’m not used to it. It’s almost against my religion.”

Sources believe the Suns are more apt to shop Stoudemire to the Eastern Conference, where Toronto and New York are natural possibilities. Raptors GM Bryan Colangelo drafted Stoudemire for the Suns, and Knicks coach Mike D’Antoni helped turn him into an All-Star. Still, the acrimonious nature of Colangelo’s and D’Antoni’s departures could lessen Phoenix management’s willingness to deal with them.


Nevertheless, Phoenix promises once more be at the center of the league’s biggest trade talks leading up to the deadline.

_____________________________________________________________


Interesting that the Suns are somewhat panicking. I would keep that team together as it is unique, with a few aging stars (Hill was a star a few years ago) and some nice young players.

Likely they wouldn't trade Amare to us but I'd offer a fair bit for him. The article says they likely would want a young big prospect and I'd offer either BWright or Randolph, along with this draft's first rounder (likelt a top 5 pick) and either Maggette or Crawford (like to give both but Suns aren't that insane). That would probably be enough to get Amare and that isn't a bad package, as either Maggette or Crawford can get their numbers, the draft pick would be a high one with alot of potential and either BWright or Randolph have untapped potential right now, so they are prospects themselves

Steve Kerr was a terrible pick to run the front office. Don't know why they have him there.

I don't know why they're panicking as well. They have a talented team, that come playoff time, should gel. They may not be dominating the league, but it's not about that. It's about when the light finally turns green.

Look at the NFL for example. The Arizona Cardinals finished 9-7 and NO ONE chose them to be in the Super Bowl. Yet, they did. All season long, their defense and running game received sh*t from everyone. But they turned it on... until the Super Bowl, of course. Still, they did. Same with the Steelers. They had a tough schedule, squeaked out a couple games, and finished 12-4. They weren't in Super Bowl talks as much as well during the season, but when the playoffs came, they turned it on and ultimately, won the whole enchilada.

You don't need to be on top every moment to win it all. Sometimes, you have hit rock bottom and experience the average and the bad to win big. I think come playoff time, they'll be a force to be reckoned with... so long as they keep their core, of course.

Whats the point of trading half your talent for amare...He is a FA in 2010, and with this season pretty much over for the warriors, we would have only 1 season with him. I doubt the suns would want our veterans, we'd have to give up monta or beans + other stuff.
I also doubt he would want to stay unless we make him the man we build around and give him a fat check...as in 18-20 mill per year.
I personally don't think we'd be that great building around him, we'd be like the raptors with bosh, except bosh plays better D and is more finesse.
though it'd be nice to have a monta-amare core, it's too risky because of Amares FA.

I rather keep the monta-beans core and see what we get out of randy and wright.. safer. and when we finally trade 1 or 2 of our veterans ( jax maggs craw) for some more young talent, we would be good for years.
off topic but all this talk about young talent..... I hate portland.... bayless-oden-aldridge-roy... with good young roleplayers that will develop as well....they will win a championship or two next decade.

xbay wrote:Steve Kerr was a terrible pick to run the front office. Don't know why they have him there.

I don't know why they're panicking as well. They have a talented team, that come playoff time, should gel. They may not be dominating the league, but it's not about that. It's about when the light finally turns green.

Look at the NFL for example. The Arizona Cardinals finished 9-7 and NO ONE chose them to be in the Super Bowl. Yet, they did. All season long, their defense and running game received sh*t from everyone. But they turned it on... until the Super Bowl, of course. Still, they did. Same with the Steelers. They had a tough schedule, squeaked out a couple games, and finished 12-4. They weren't in Super Bowl talks as much as well during the season, but when the playoffs came, they turned it on and ultimately, won the whole enchilada.

You don't need to be on top every moment to win it all. Sometimes, you have hit rock bottom and experience the average and the bad to win big. I think come playoff time, they'll be a force to be reckoned with... so long as they keep their core, of course.

Don't know, that team is stacked but they were nothing last playoffs and don't look like being better this time either. They do have veterans that have been stars and they can explode at any time but I wouldn't bet money on them. Chances of injuries with them is high too

jamesnamida wrote:Whats the point of trading half your talent for amare...He is a FA in 2010, and with this season pretty much over for the warriors, we would have only 1 season with him. I doubt the suns would want our veterans, we'd have to give up monta or beans + other stuff.
I also doubt he would want to stay unless we make him the man we build around and give him a fat check...as in 18-20 mill per year.
I personally don't think we'd be that great building around him, we'd be like the raptors with bosh, except bosh plays better D and is more finesse.
though it'd be nice to have a monta-amare core, it's too risky because of Amares FA.

I rather keep the monta-beans core and see what we get out of randy and wright.. safer. and when we finally trade 1 or 2 of our veterans ( jax maggs craw) for some more young talent, we would be good for years.

This current roster isn't going to win anything so best to change it, plain and simple. Amare is an elite player in the nba and one of the best bigs. Getting him, for the package I stated, would not only get rid of a fairly highly paid player that has never won anything, but also give one of the young promising bigs a chance to actually play and do well.

Amare is one of the best players to build around right now and he could be had cheaper than ever right now, as he is not happy and the Suns are not doing well. Having Monta and Amare, with Biedrins, would be a very nice core to say the least. All that's needed is a very good PG and you have a team that can be a top 4 seed in the West, no exaggeration. You have to have good bigs to go anywhere, just look at most of the past championship teams, with the Jordan Bulls being the main exception.

Be hard to get Amare, as Phoenix is in the same division, let alone the same conference, but it is what you offer that means more than anything else and if the team has to throw in another player, like Azu or Belinelli, I'd do it. Maggette or Crawford, Azu or Belinelli (heck both), BWright or Randolph and this draft's 1st rounder (likely a top 5 going by the team's record right now), is a very good offer for Amare and I doubt any team will offer more than that. I remember two offseasons ago, before last season, there was some rumour that Atlanta was going to trade their two 1st rounders (ended up being Horford and Law) to TWolves, KG to Phoenix and Amare to Atlanta, what a disgrace that would have been as Hawks give up close to nothing

I don't know Migya,


at least this season, I think maggs has lived up to his 8 Mill pay check, ~20p-6r-2a is pretty f'ing good, esp off the bench. I see no reason to trade him as of now. everyone assumes that we will be able to get the exact same (or improved) production from his replacement and I think that is very far from the truth. Either that or they think that cap space will solve all our problems. further from the truth

Yes we are having a horrible season, but I don't think that necessarily means we should completely launch into a new rebuilding mode.

Amare will leave us in 1.5 years no doubt, and it's not worth trading our draft picks (Beli, wright) or our new acquisitions that have yet to show their full potential with this team for that short of a stay.

If we are trading for new players or signing new FA, WE MUST be able to keep them past 2010. We have already decided we are not going to be a part of the frenzy when we turned a 2yr Al Harrington contract, and S Jax contract into a 3 year Crawford contract and a 5 year Jackson contract), so going back on that decision will only weaken us.

If we got amare until the summer of 2010 some other team with way more cap space will steal him, and since we wont have any cap space even with him gone (Monta, AB, and Jax contracts) we will not be able to sign anyone of the same caliber. so in a sense we are shooting ourselves in the foot if we get him.

Now see, I would have been fine with trading Jax's 2yr and Al's 2yr for Amare a couple months ago but we just can't go back now. unless someone has a spare time machine lying around.

first off wrote:I don't know Migya,


at least this season, I think maggs has lived up to his 8 Mill pay check, ~20p-6r-2a is pretty f'ing good, esp off the bench. I see no reason to trade him as of now. everyone assumes that we will be able to get the exact same (or improved) production from his replacement and I think that is very far from the truth. Either that or they think that cap space will solve all our problems. further from the truth

Yes we are having a horrible season, but I don't think that necessarily means we should completely launch into a new rebuilding mode.

Amare will leave us in 1.5 years no doubt, and it's not worth trading our draft picks (Beli, wright) or our new acquisitions that have yet to show their full potential with this team for that short of a stay.

If we are trading for new players or signing new FA, WE MUST be able to keep them past 2010. We have already decided we are not going to be a part of the frenzy when we turned a 2yr Al Harrington contract, and S Jax contract into a 3 year Crawford contract and a 5 year Jackson contract), so going back on that decision will only weaken us.

If we got amare until the summer of 2010 some other team with way more cap space will steal him, and since we wont have any cap space even with him gone (Monta, AB, and Jax contracts) we will not be able to sign anyone of the same caliber. so in a sense we are shooting ourselves in the foot if we get him.

Now see, I would have been fine with trading Jax's 2yr and Al's 2yr for Amare a couple months ago but we just can't go back now. unless someone has a spare time machine lying around.

As I've said before, you want players that help teams win, Maggette doesn't do that. That 10 million a year could have been used far better.

Getting Amare will be very difficult, that's why I'd throw alot of player packages at him. The one I said, trading Maggette or Crawford, Azu or Belinelli, BWright or Randolph and this draft's 1st rounder (likely a top 5 don't forget), could be enough to please the Suns and why wouldn't it, they'd be getting alot of talent, all but one of them being young and promising

migya wrote:

first off wrote:I don't know Migya,


at least this season, I think maggs has lived up to his 8 Mill pay check, ~20p-6r-2a is pretty f'ing good, esp off the bench. I see no reason to trade him as of now. everyone assumes that we will be able to get the exact same (or improved) production from his replacement and I think that is very far from the truth. Either that or they think that cap space will solve all our problems. further from the truth

Yes we are having a horrible season, but I don't think that necessarily means we should completely launch into a new rebuilding mode.

Amare will leave us in 1.5 years no doubt, and it's not worth trading our draft picks (Beli, wright) or our new acquisitions that have yet to show their full potential with this team for that short of a stay.

If we are trading for new players or signing new FA, WE MUST be able to keep them past 2010. We have already decided we are not going to be a part of the frenzy when we turned a 2yr Al Harrington contract, and S Jax contract into a 3 year Crawford contract and a 5 year Jackson contract), so going back on that decision will only weaken us.

If we got amare until the summer of 2010 some other team with way more cap space will steal him, and since we wont have any cap space even with him gone (Monta, AB, and Jax contracts) we will not be able to sign anyone of the same caliber. so in a sense we are shooting ourselves in the foot if we get him.

Now see, I would have been fine with trading Jax's 2yr and Al's 2yr for Amare a couple months ago but we just can't go back now. unless someone has a spare time machine lying around.

As I've said before, you want players that help teams win, Maggette doesn't do that. That 10 million a year could have been used far better.

Getting Amare will be very difficult, that's why I'd throw alot of player packages at him. The one I said, trading Maggette or Crawford, Azu or Belinelli, BWright or Randolph and this draft's 1st rounder (likely a top 5 don't forget), could be enough to please the Suns and why wouldn't it, they'd be getting alot of talent, all but one of them being young and promising

and what happens in a year and a half?

I guess I'm not convinced that a Monta, jax, ? , Amare, and Dre lineup would not go anywhere. And then in 18 months we would be back to square one with Dre, Monta, Jax, and some other player everyone wants to trade.

basically it comes down to:
A) we are still a team trying to gain traction, trying to evaluate talent, roles, leaders and general chemistry. Placing a bet before you even look at the cards isn't wise.
B) Suns don't want veterans or new talent, they want expirers, which we don't have. at the very least they want contract(s) that end in 2010 but we really do not have that either.
C) As I've stated above I don't believe we are in a position to shop in 2010. NOT including Craw and Maggs we still have 35 Mill due to players which puts us about middle of the pack.
we can get deals on players that have contracts of 3yrs or more (like crawford), or FA that teams don't want to resign because they would have contracts that F' up their teams 2010 shopping spree (David Lee, Nate Robinson, perhaps Felton) neither of which applies to the PHX situation.

or as Max more simply put it -

max from the comment board on the examiner website wrote:No new trades please. No new huge free agent signings.

There are only 3 NEW things the warriors need:

New Coach
New Owner
New LOGO

...in that order.

first off wrote:

migya wrote:

first off wrote:I don't know Migya,


at least this season, I think maggs has lived up to his 8 Mill pay check, ~20p-6r-2a is pretty f'ing good, esp off the bench. I see no reason to trade him as of now. everyone assumes that we will be able to get the exact same (or improved) production from his replacement and I think that is very far from the truth. Either that or they think that cap space will solve all our problems. further from the truth

Yes we are having a horrible season, but I don't think that necessarily means we should completely launch into a new rebuilding mode.

Amare will leave us in 1.5 years no doubt, and it's not worth trading our draft picks (Beli, wright) or our new acquisitions that have yet to show their full potential with this team for that short of a stay.

If we are trading for new players or signing new FA, WE MUST be able to keep them past 2010. We have already decided we are not going to be a part of the frenzy when we turned a 2yr Al Harrington contract, and S Jax contract into a 3 year Crawford contract and a 5 year Jackson contract), so going back on that decision will only weaken us.

If we got amare until the summer of 2010 some other team with way more cap space will steal him, and since we wont have any cap space even with him gone (Monta, AB, and Jax contracts) we will not be able to sign anyone of the same caliber. so in a sense we are shooting ourselves in the foot if we get him.

Now see, I would have been fine with trading Jax's 2yr and Al's 2yr for Amare a couple months ago but we just can't go back now. unless someone has a spare time machine lying around.

As I've said before, you want players that help teams win, Maggette doesn't do that. That 10 million a year could have been used far better.

Getting Amare will be very difficult, that's why I'd throw alot of player packages at him. The one I said, trading Maggette or Crawford, Azu or Belinelli, BWright or Randolph and this draft's 1st rounder (likely a top 5 don't forget), could be enough to please the Suns and why wouldn't it, they'd be getting alot of talent, all but one of them being young and promising

and what happens in a year and a half?

I guess I'm not convinced that a Monta, jax, ? , Amare, and Dre lineup would not go anywhere. And then in 18 months we would be back to square one with Dre, Monta, Jax, and some other player everyone wants to trade.

basically it comes down to:
A) we are still a team trying to gain traction, trying to evaluate talent, roles, leaders and general chemistry. Placing a bet before you even look at the cards isn't wise.
B) Suns don't want veterans or new talent, they want expirers, which we don't have. at the very least they want contract(s) that end in 2010 but we really do not have that either.
C) As I've stated above I don't believe we are in a position to shop in 2010. NOT including Craw and Maggs we still have 35 Mill due to players which puts us about middle of the pack.
we can get deals on players that have contracts of 3yrs or more (like crawford), or FA that teams don't want to resign because they would have contracts that F' up their teams 2010 shopping spree (David Lee, Nate Robinson, perhaps Felton) neither of which applies to the PHX situation.

or as Max more simply put it -

max from the comment board on the examiner website wrote:No new trades please. No new huge free agent signings.

There are only 3 NEW things the warriors need:

New Coach
New Owner
New LOGO

...in that order.

The team can't lose with this deal. If Amare leaves, at least one of either Maggette's or Crawford's contract is gone. Come to think of it, I really want Maggette gone instead of Crawford now because Maggette has another four years after this one, Crawford (if he doesn't opt out this ofseason), just has anothet two, much better. Be great to trade Maggette in such a deal like this one and not have Crawford anymore after this offseason.

If Amare were to stay, we have one of the best players in the nba and most dominant bigs, exactly what this team has always needed and one that is used to playing in run and gun style, actually thrives in it.

I'd pay Amare 18million a year, I think he is worth that much and is that critical in a team's success, all great bigs are. Get rid of Maggette in this deal, let Crawford go this offseason (he has to opt out ofcourse) and build from there, not much needed actually. The team would still have Monta, Biedrins, either Randolph or BWright (which ever one was not in that trade), Azu or Belinelli (same deal as with the other two), Watson, SJackson (could be real good alongside Monta and Amare, being third option again) and Turiaf, to go along with Amare. That's eight players that form a very good team and all that is needed is a very good PG, as Monta is a SG, a big need but much better than three or four needs.

Imagine a starting five (without getting a very good PG) of:

PG - Monta/Watson
SG - Azu or Belinelli/Monta/SJackson
SF - SJackson/Azu or Belinelli/maybe Randolph
PF - Amare/BWright or Randolph/Turiaf
C - Biedrins/Turiaf/Amare

Role players can be picked up pretty easily to fill out the team, maybe Kurz and Davidson can be kept, maybe even MWilliams and who knows, he coul actually get some court time and show that he is a capable PG for the team. There really could be ten players from the current roster and Amare next season, that's a much better team and definately a playoff one, possibly a top 4 West team

If i am C.Cohan, i will give them 2 first round pick(2009+2010) + A.Randolph(young talent)+Maggette....

Amare is a beast and we can play him in PF with Beans on C....

imagine this lineup

Monta
Jax
Crawford
Amare
Beans

Bench= Marco,Morrow,Turiaf, wright....maybe we have a shot ino playoff again and compete with Fakers...

if we have amare on the team,i am sure we will have low first round picks in 2009 and 2010 .....

IF this happen

The team won't get Amare or any other great big any time soon. I just think they should propose real good trades like the one I liste. The team gives up alot but gets back a star big

Toronto Making Strong Push For Amare
Feb 11, 2009 2:05 AM EST

The Raptors are "pushing hard" for Amare Stoudemire, according to one executive, but at this point they want to pair Stoudemire with Chris Bosh and continue to rebuff any trade proposals that include parting with Bosh.

http://basketball.realgm.com/src_wireta ... for_amare/

_____________________________________________________________


Don't think Raps can get Bosh, but haven't seen who they have who is expiring, if anyone at all. Don't see Amare for Bosh either, though Suns would jump at that immediately.

If Jermaine was an expirer, maybe Phoenix would accept him, Bargnani and a swingman, but as things are, no trade will be made by both teams






Blazers Could Send Aldridge And Bayless For Amare?
Feb 11, 2009 2:04 AM EST

The Portland Trail Blazers have made a strong play for Amare Stoudemire, discussing a package that includes LaMarcus Aldridge, Jerryd Bayless, and Raef LeFrentz's $12.7 million expiring contract, a person with direct knowledge of the talks told CBSSports.com Tuesday.

The Blazers have four extra second-round picks in the next two drafts to offer, plus the rights to British big man Joel Freeland, taken by Portland with the 30th pick in the 2006 draft.

Freeland has reportedly been included in the talks.

http://basketball.realgm.com/src_wireta ... for_amare/

_____________________________________________________________


Think Phoenix has just found the team to trade Amare to. The Blazers have what the Suns want, a proven young big that has star potential, in Aldridge, a huge expirer, in Lafrentz, more young talented players and plenty of future draft picks.

Hard to compete with what they could offer