Harrington for Haslem and Simien

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» Thu Jun 21, 2007 3:58 am
Another trade idea.

Harrington to Heat for Haslem and Simien.

Think there might be major changes in the Heat, with Payton and Mourning likely retiring and Shaq declining even more. That team is desparate need of some talent and won't get it through the draft this year. Harrington would give them a third scorer (if Shaq can still score well at all) and very good shooter.

The Warriors get Haslem, who fills the needs of the team with rebounding, pretty good defense and a nice jump shot. Haslem isn't the creator and scorer that Harrington is but there are enough scorers on the team.
Simien has been little used thus far but I always thought he had potential to be a good scorer and rebounder. He would be a good addition, especially if Powell is not kept
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» Thu Jun 21, 2007 4:29 am
Now that's a trade I'd like. Not sure what the Heat think of Harrington, tho...

He can play a role similar to the one Mashburn played for them a few seasons ago. They would get the best player of the deal and we would get some cap relief and fit a need with Haslem.
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» Thu Jun 21, 2007 4:40 am
Makes sense for both teams as the Heat really are in a tough spot with key players Payton and Mourning likely retiring and Shaq just getting worse and likely not to play many games again. Harrington wouldn't be enough to keep them good if Payton and Mourning do retire, as the Heat would be short on players and would have to attract a couple of key free agents (like GWallace, Varejao, Lewis etc). Haslem looks like he could fill the needs of the Warriors but whether he can run quite a bit is the question. His nice jumpshot seals it for me because that's the only offense, along with putbacks, that he'd need. Simien was seen as a relative steal when the Heat picked him a couple of years ago and the poor bastard has been buried on the bench. He'd likely see between 10-15mins on the team
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» Sat Jun 23, 2007 6:33 pm
I like it... but I'd much rather have Harrington over Haslem. I don't think we'll need the cap relief, since we dropped money in the Pacers' trade and we axed Fisher a year ago. But, hell, if we need it, then why not.
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» Sat Jun 23, 2007 8:06 pm
Again, Harrington is not a proper PF and not a need for the team. There are enough shooters and scorers and a rebounder/defender PF is needed so Haslem would fit perfectly
Last edited by migya on Sun Jun 24, 2007 1:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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» Sun Jun 24, 2007 12:55 am
Nice proposal. I'd go for it. Harrington is an upgrade over Walker and Posey combined in scoring. They definitely could use another scorer. Kapono, Wade, and Shaq are their only consistent scoring options. Mostly Wade because Shaq doesn't show up 'til the end of the season. Walker is too inconsistent and has lost couple steps in his game.
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» Sun Jun 24, 2007 12:51 pm
migya wrote:Again, Harrington is not a proper PF and not a need for the team. There are enough shooters and scorers and a rebounder/defender PF is needed so Haslem would fit perfectly

Are you kidding? Al Harrington is tailor-made for the Warriors system. A big guy that can shoot, handle, and pass?

The issue that needs to be addressed is rebounding, I agree, but not at the expense of actual talent. Trading Harrington for Haslem, while addressing a need, is clearly a downgrade, as Haslem isn't even in Harrington's league when it comes to scoring, distributing, or handling the ball. It would be like the Fisher trade: addressing an issue, but our roster definately gets worse, which isn't something we can afford to do right now.
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» Sun Jun 24, 2007 6:55 pm
32 wrote:
migya wrote:Again, Harrington is not a proper PF and not a need for the team. There are enough shooters and scorers and a rebounder/defender PF is needed so Haslem would fit perfectly

Are you kidding? Al Harrington is tailor-made for the Warriors system. A big guy that can shoot, handle, and pass?

The issue that needs to be addressed is rebounding, I agree, but not at the expense of actual talent. Trading Harrington for Haslem, while addressing a need, is clearly a downgrade, as Haslem isn't even in Harrington's league when it comes to scoring, distributing, or handling the ball. It would be like the Fisher trade: addressing an issue, but our roster definately gets worse, which isn't something we can afford to do right now.



Harrington can run and score some, that's it. He can't guard a star big at all and his rebounding is guard like. Haslem, in comparison, can shoot the midrange jumper very well, score inside, rebound and defend very well. He would be a major asset. I'd give up Harington straight up for him if I could
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» Mon Jun 25, 2007 12:43 am
32 wrote:Are you kidding? Al Harrington is tailor-made for the Warriors system. A big guy that can shoot, handle, and pass?


Yeah, but we need something else. Boozer alone destroyed our inside game against Utah. We need to get tougher inside, and if that means trading for a worse player that will improve our lacking areas, so be it.

If we stand pat, we'll have (at best) a repeat of last season, and the objective always has to be improve on what you have done before.
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» Tue Jun 26, 2007 9:11 am
TMC wrote:
32 wrote:Are you kidding? Al Harrington is tailor-made for the Warriors system. A big guy that can shoot, handle, and pass?


Yeah, but we need something else. Boozer alone destroyed our inside game against Utah. We need to get tougher inside, and if that means trading for a worse player that will improve our lacking areas, so be it.

If we stand pat, we'll have (at best) a repeat of last season, and the objective always has to be improve on what you have done before.


agreed...

however, is there that much difference between haslem & al on defense?? i don't think so.

there's not really much of a comparison on offense too...sure, he's got a nice mid-range shot, but how many open looks have come courtesy of a double/triple team on shaq?

what haslem gains on D, al makes up on offense...

it's a wash...
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» Tue Jun 26, 2007 9:30 am
aletha33 wrote:agreed...

however, is there that much difference between haslem & al on defense?? i don't think so.

there's not really much of a comparison on offense too...sure, he's got a nice mid-range shot, but how many open looks have come courtesy of a double/triple team on shaq?

what haslem gains on D, al makes up on offense...

it's a wash...


Well, I consider Haslem a much better rebounder than Al, too. It's true that Al is (overall) a better player, but Haslem's strenghts come in areas we really need help. This would be a trade to improve as a team, not to improve the talent on the roster.
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» Tue Jun 26, 2007 9:37 am
TMC wrote:
aletha33 wrote:agreed...

however, is there that much difference between haslem & al on defense?? i don't think so.

there's not really much of a comparison on offense too...sure, he's got a nice mid-range shot, but how many open looks have come courtesy of a double/triple team on shaq?

what haslem gains on D, al makes up on offense...

it's a wash...


Well, I consider Haslem a much better rebounder than Al, too. It's true that Al is (overall) a better player, but Haslem's strenghts come in areas we really need help. This would be a trade to improve as a team, not to improve the talent on the roster.


i hear where you're coming from...but again, it doesn't work out that way. what al lacks in the rebounding department - and being 'much better' equates to what, 3, 4 more rebounds a game? - al will make up on offense.

when i say it's a wash, not only am i referring to individual talent, but how it will impact the team.

i see no gain from adding haslem and ridding ourselves of al...
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» Tue Jun 26, 2007 9:49 am
aletha33 wrote:i see no gain from adding haslem and ridding ourselves of al...


Well, another side benefit would be that Haslem's contract doesn't escalate as much as Al's contract does, which would help us to re-sign Monta and AB... That works in favor of the trade, too.
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» Tue Jun 26, 2007 10:05 am
TMC wrote:
aletha33 wrote:i see no gain from adding haslem and ridding ourselves of al...


Well, another side benefit would be that Haslem's contract doesn't escalate as much as Al's contract does, which would help us to re-sign Monta and AB... That works in favor of the trade, too.


well, put that way, that does tend to sway me...
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» Tue Jun 26, 2007 10:07 am
I think we are all undervaluing Harrington’s value to the W’s. Maybe it is because of the way Boozer and the Jazz manhandled us or his poor performance in the Dallas series but we gotta remember that Al was put in a difficult position of playing Center for the last month of the season. Everyone knows he is NOT a center, but I think he did a remarkable job for playing out of position.

I agree he is not a great rebounder but he held his own on the defensive side of the ball. Sure he could not guard Boozer but neither could AB. Few people can stop Boozer. He is just too strong and the refs let him push and play very physical in that series. Lets not forget that Harrington held Yao to just 4 FG attempts in the Houston game. Some of that was scheme as we fronted Yao but Al totally frustrated Yao and didn’t ever let him get comfortable. It was really an amazing game from him.

I actually would like to see Al play more 3 man. He is actually a pretty good perimeter defender. His length and strength on the perimeter makes it very tough for opposing wing players. Al brings this team so much versatility and allows Nelson to do what he does best and mix and match lineups to create mismatches. He can play all 3 frontcourt spots and can do things few others can from those spots. We saw several times while playing C he got the rebound and just took off and led the break. Can Haslim do that? He can take the ball to the basket aggressively and can handle the ball well for his size. Can Haslim do that? He can extend the defense with range to the 3pt line (remember % wise he was our best 3 pt shooter). Can Haslim do that?

Haslim is a better rebounder and post defender, but Harrington is a WAY better offensive player, passer, ball handler, and perimeter defender and his versatility is off the chart. While we would gain a little toughness, we would love some of the freedoms in our lineup that Nelson thrives on.

I would not be adverse to including Al in the right deal (i.e. part of a package for KG) but I think we would miss him. After all, it was not just coincidence that we went on a tear once he got here. He is an important piece of the puzzle.

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