migya wrote:

32 wrote:

O.G. Broe wrote:

JayPat wrote:No. We need Baron. Did you see what our offense was like without him?

The answer to your question is no he didn't.

If he did, he'd notice the Warriors offense lives and dies by Baron Davis. Monta Ellis is a great player, but a less than decent playmaker. Baron Davis is the soul of the Warriors.

Strange how before the trade the team won just as much without Baron as they did with him
The team will be just fine without Baron and with a great PF to go with Biedrins. A capable PG is much easier to find than a great big Monta may just be that man

If you watch Warriors game with a healthy Richardson and Baron Davis, we win about 65% of those games. Keep that in mind, champ.

If you'd like to see more results like last night's game against Portland than, by all means, get rid of Baron Davis. God knows he's the only thing that kept the Clippers game from looking like that as well. Didn't you notice the HUGE runs the Clippers went on when Baron was in foul trouble...?! Or have you not seen those games yet...?

I'm sorry but I have to say it. Monta has been doing a shitty job at PG. Why do you think our record is so bad w/o him? (I know the answer is Baron, but do you think if Monta were a decent PG we'd havethat bad of a record?

I agree. I'm in total agreement. Monta's turnover prone, rushes passes, and telegraphs everything he throws.

The truth is, most people here hope (or wish) Monta would get better as a PG, but it just hasn't happened yet. Hopefully a year or two from now, he'll have improved... but I doubt he'll ever reach Baron's level, as far as playmaking.

32 wrote:

migya wrote:

32 wrote:

O.G. Broe wrote:

JayPat wrote:No. We need Baron. Did you see what our offense was like without him?

The answer to your question is no he didn't.

If he did, he'd notice the Warriors offense lives and dies by Baron Davis. Monta Ellis is a great player, but a less than decent playmaker. Baron Davis is the soul of the Warriors.

Strange how before the trade the team won just as much without Baron as they did with him
The team will be just fine without Baron and with a great PF to go with Biedrins. A capable PG is much easier to find than a great big Monta may just be that man

If you watch Warriors game with a healthy Richardson and Baron Davis, we win about 65% of those games. Keep that in mind, champ.

If you'd like to see more results like last night's game against Portland than, by all means, get rid of Baron Davis. God knows he's the only thing that kept the Clippers game from looking like that as well. Didn't you notice the HUGE runs the Clippers went on when Baron was in foul trouble...?! Or have you not seen those games yet...?

What I've seen is the team win some games without Baron, like they did early in the season! The trade is what seems to have imbalanced the team strangely enough. All I can see is that SJackson and Harrington take too many shots and that is taking away from the team because before, players like Barnes and Pietrus were contributing more and things were working better

migya wrote:

32 wrote:

migya wrote:

32 wrote:

O.G. Broe wrote:

JayPat wrote:No. We need Baron. Did you see what our offense was like without him?

The answer to your question is no he didn't.

If he did, he'd notice the Warriors offense lives and dies by Baron Davis. Monta Ellis is a great player, but a less than decent playmaker. Baron Davis is the soul of the Warriors.

Strange how before the trade the team won just as much without Baron as they did with him
The team will be just fine without Baron and with a great PF to go with Biedrins. A capable PG is much easier to find than a great big Monta may just be that man

If you watch Warriors game with a healthy Richardson and Baron Davis, we win about 65% of those games. Keep that in mind, champ.

If you'd like to see more results like last night's game against Portland than, by all means, get rid of Baron Davis. God knows he's the only thing that kept the Clippers game from looking like that as well. Didn't you notice the HUGE runs the Clippers went on when Baron was in foul trouble...?! Or have you not seen those games yet...?

What I've seen is the team win some games without Baron, like they did early in the season! The trade is what seems to have imbalanced the team strangely enough. All I can see is that SJackson and Harrington take too many shots and that is taking away from the team because before, players like Barnes and Pietrus were contributing more and things were working better

Well then you need to catch up to the present & get your torrent time machine current cause you are missing it, by the time the Warriors make the playoffs you will be complaining about the Portland game

O.G. Broe wrote:

migya wrote:

32 wrote:

migya wrote:

32 wrote:

O.G. Broe wrote:

JayPat wrote:No. We need Baron. Did you see what our offense was like without him?

The answer to your question is no he didn't.

If he did, he'd notice the Warriors offense lives and dies by Baron Davis. Monta Ellis is a great player, but a less than decent playmaker. Baron Davis is the soul of the Warriors.

Strange how before the trade the team won just as much without Baron as they did with him
The team will be just fine without Baron and with a great PF to go with Biedrins. A capable PG is much easier to find than a great big Monta may just be that man

If you watch Warriors game with a healthy Richardson and Baron Davis, we win about 65% of those games. Keep that in mind, champ.

If you'd like to see more results like last night's game against Portland than, by all means, get rid of Baron Davis. God knows he's the only thing that kept the Clippers game from looking like that as well. Didn't you notice the HUGE runs the Clippers went on when Baron was in foul trouble...?! Or have you not seen those games yet...?

What I've seen is the team win some games without Baron, like they did early in the season! The trade is what seems to have imbalanced the team strangely enough. All I can see is that SJackson and Harrington take too many shots and that is taking away from the team because before, players like Barnes and Pietrus were contributing more and things were working better

Well then you need to catch up to the present & get your torrent time machine current cause you are missing it, by the time the Warriors make the playoffs you will be complaining about the Portland game

Don't get to cheeky broe, it doesn't make you any better Try being a little more than a narrowminded fan

32 wrote:And, here, I thought the 2-man thread was a lost art.

Hey, would you rather see one of those one-man threads J-Rich does?

Really, what I think migya is basing his argument about trading Baron are his constant injuries. We all know how much he means to the team, but only if he can stay healthy...

TMC wrote:

32 wrote:And, here, I thought the 2-man thread was a lost art.

Hey, would you rather see one of those one-man threads J-Rich does?

Really, what I think migya is basing his argument about trading Baron are his constant injuries. We all know how much he means to the team, but only if he can stay healthy...

Look at my other posts here to find out the total reason why I think he should be used to get something better As I've said, he is never around enough, he gets paid too much for the circumstances and the team wouldn't even be a contender with him as the PG, not with all the shots he takes and relatively bad defense he plays, to go along with the injuries

I know seeing is believing which explains your defense comment about Baron because Baron has been playing solid D all year and has turned it all the way up Seriously migya it shows you aren't watching the games.

O.G. Broe wrote:I know seeing is believing which explains your defense comment about Baron because Baron has been playing solid D all year and has turned it all the way up Seriously migya it shows you aren't watching the games.

I gotta agree this time; if you're knocking Baron's defense and claiming the team was capable of winning without him, it's clear that you aren't getting a very good view of the team this season. Baron Davis' defense has been phenoninal this season; Nelson's running offense has really turned him lose on the midcourt steals (Jackson, too).

And the team is helpless without Baron. I can clearly see it in under 2 weeks' time. Case in point, check the last 3 games:

Team (WITH Baron) beats the LA Clippers in a spanking.
Team WITHOUT Baron) loses to the lottery-bound Trailblazers.
Team (WITH Baron) utterly destroys none other than the hottest team in the league.

We beat our competition for the playoffs AND the best team in the league when Baron plays, but we lose to one of the worst teams when he's out. Its a science by now. Baron drives this team.

O.G. Broe wrote:I know seeing is believing which explains your defense comment about Baron because Baron has been playing solid D all year and has turned it all the way up Seriously migya it shows you aren't watching the games.

Baron gets steals but that stat doesn't show the horrible defense he plays sometimes! He doesn't guard his man that well at all but get those steals by being opportunistic, nice to have but not a sign of a good defender. It is not like opposition PGs get shut down when they go against Baron!

migya wrote:

O.G. Broe wrote:I know seeing is believing which explains your defense comment about Baron because Baron has been playing solid D all year and has turned it all the way up Seriously migya it shows you aren't watching the games.

Baron gets steals but that stat doesn't show the horrible defense he plays sometimes! He doesn't guard his man that well at all but get those steals by being opportunistic, nice to have but not a sign of a good defender. It is not like opposition PGs get shut down when they go against Baron!

...?

Let me get this straight... Baron Davis averages 2.0 steals a night and he's a horrible defender, but your boy Pietrus (who averages 0.8 SPG) is a lockdown defender...?

I'm not directing this comment at you, but anybody who doesn't think Stephen Jackson and Baron Davis have been the best defenders for the Warriors all season haven't watched more than 2 games. Anybody droning on about Pietrus, Monta, Azuibuke, or Barnes just hasn't been watching. Jackson and Davis are the backbone of that defense.

Check the Warriors' past 9 games. When Stephen Jackson played a full game (in 4 contests), the opposition never hit 100 (last night's Dallas game doesn't count because the 4th quarter was bench players). The Warriors held the other teams to 93, 96, and 89. When Jackson doesn't play, check the opponenets' scores: 122, 113, 106, 107, 106.

Baron is vital to the team, now. But that does not necessarily mean he is untradable.

He is one of the best PG's out there, so there is some value that can be gotten in return. He is prone to injury, which makes him somewhat expendable to the W's.

But, if he is traded, there has to be a floor general brought in. Ellis is not ready to be the strarting PG. He tried, and was at best an average PG. (It was when BOTH BD and Sjax the point forward were out that the W's tanked.) A true PG would be needed, AND a team leader. Baron is both to the team.

So, for example, a trade that sent BD+, and brought in KG only addresses the need for a team leader. BD+ for Gasol brings an allstar, but does not address the PG or leadership the W's would lose.

It would be difficult to find the right mix in return for BD, but no one is a permanent franchise player on the W's.

Completely agree, drazz. Baron Davis directs the floor like no other. Therefore, it would be stupid to trade that sort of play for anything less than another amazing playmaker... and, even then, finding equal value is tricky.

32 wrote:

migya wrote:

O.G. Broe wrote:I know seeing is believing which explains your defense comment about Baron because Baron has been playing solid D all year and has turned it all the way up Seriously migya it shows you aren't watching the games.

Baron gets steals but that stat doesn't show the horrible defense he plays sometimes! He doesn't guard his man that well at all but get those steals by being opportunistic, nice to have but not a sign of a good defender. It is not like opposition PGs get shut down when they go against Baron!

...?

Let me get this straight... Baron Davis averages 2.0 steals a night and he's a horrible defender, but your boy Pietrus (who averages 0.8 SPG) is a lockdown defender...?

I'm not directing this comment at you, but anybody who doesn't think Stephen Jackson and Baron Davis have been the best defenders for the Warriors all season haven't watched more than 2 games. Anybody droning on about Pietrus, Monta, Azuibuke, or Barnes just hasn't been watching. Jackson and Davis are the backbone of that defense.

Check the Warriors' past 9 games. When Stephen Jackson played a full game (in 4 contests), the opposition never hit 100 (last night's Dallas game doesn't count because the 4th quarter was bench players). The Warriors held the other teams to 93, 96, and 89. When Jackson doesn't play, check the opponenets' scores: 122, 113, 106, 107, 106.

SJackson plays defense and passes well but Baron's defense can be bad often. He lags off his man alot at times and doesn't exactly shut anybody down