migya wrote:You never trade a superstar for nothing! It would have been stupid for the sixers to get next to nothing for Iverson! AMiler fils the PG position real well and that is the 2nd hardest position to fil well, after Center.

Yes, you do. That's what tanking the season is all about. They trade stars to get worse, get more picks for the draft and hope you're so bad that the team ends up with a top 2 pick (for this draft, in which there will be 2 players above anyone else).

Of course, Billy King is too dumb to understand that... which is surprising, because even Danny Ainge has been able to understand that they have to lose as much as possible.

migya wrote:They are not at the "backend of the draft" but may get a top 5 pick if not top 2! The trade put them in a good position to get a very high draft pick and gave them tradeable pieces like Joe Smith, who could be a filler in any trade scenario

Joe Smith is a expirer. If anything, they should have traded him in this deadline, alongside Miller. But he's more valuable to Phily as a expirer than as a player...

migya wrote:The Bucks would gladly give up Villa and anyone else besides Mo Williams and Redd for a top 2 pick! Villa is good but has not done that well at all with the Bucks.

Mo Williams is a free agent at the end of the season. And they won't trade Villa if not for a top 2 pick but that wouldn't make sense for Philly. You don't trade Oden or Durant for Charlie... no matter how good Villa is.

migya wrote:Jefferson has come on well the last month but he is expendable for a top 2 to 5 pick. The Celts could get their hands on the top 2 picks and that would mean filling to frontline spots with Oden and Durant! Ainge would go for that.

Jefferson is not available for trades. Boston even refused to trade him for Pau (which killed any chance the Celtics had of making that trade). Again... could happen for a top two pick. Again, wouldn't make sense for Philly.

migya wrote:Randolph is a headcase who has done surprisingly well this seson after he was dropping previously but the Blazers are going young in rebuilding and getting a top 2 to 5 pick in this draft would be ideal. They would not be so in love with Randolph.

I can see this happening, but you know how I feel about Randolph... No way I'd do this trade from Philly's standpoint.

migya wrote:As far as the Pacers and Jermaine - They have been rocky for the past two seasons and after the the trade to get Murphy, dun and Diogu, Jermaine is likely not going to stay with them. Getting a top 2 to 5 pick would be a dream for the Pacers as they will never get anywhere near the same value in return for Jermaine, as always happens when trading superstars

Jermaine won't be traded until he demands to be traded. And, in that case, he probably won't want to go to Philly.

TMC wrote:

migya wrote:You never trade a superstar for nothing! It would have been stupid for the sixers to get next to nothing for Iverson! AMiler fils the PG position real well and that is the 2nd hardest position to fil well, after Center.

Yes, you do. That's what tanking the season is all about. They trade stars to get worse, get more picks for the draft and hope you're so bad that the team ends up with a top 2 pick (for this draft, in which there will be 2 players above anyone else).

Of course, Billy King is too dumb to understand that... which is surprising, because even Danny Ainge has been able to understand that they have to lose as much as possible.

Who says the sixers need to trade all their good players in order to tank the season or get into the top 2 or 3 in the draft! It would be near impossible to come back from that and would likely take at least 5 years and some luck in the drafts and/or key free agents wanting to go there

TMC wrote:

migya wrote:They are not at the "backend of the draft" but may get a top 5 pick if not top 2! The trade put them in a good position to get a very high draft pick and gave them tradeable pieces like Joe Smith, who could be a filler in any trade scenario

Joe Smith is a expirer. If anything, they should have traded him in this deadline, alongside Miller. But he's more valuable to Phily as a expirer than as a player...

Again, you don't trade everything you've got just to get ONE draft pick, be it a slightly better position or not! The sixers have some young talent to work with AND they are still heading for the 2nd pick in the draft (going by win/loss records). Letting Joe Smith go will be a great move as to create salary spce to prepare to resign Iguodala and put themselves in a position to get a free agent or two

TMC wrote:

migya wrote:The Bucks would gladly give up Villa and anyone else besides Mo Williams and Redd for a top 2 pick! Villa is good but has not done that well at all with the Bucks.

Mo Williams is a free agent at the end of the season. And they won't trade Villa if not for a top 2 pick but that wouldn't make sense for Philly. You don't trade Oden or Durant for Charlie... no matter how good Villa is.

Well, if Villa was that great (which he hasn't been this season), the sixers would be smart to take a look at him and see a possibilty of trading their pick, likely #2 in the draft, for Villa and someone else, maybe a future 1st rounder of the Bucks. My point was to show that the sixers have options and they did not have to trade away all their good players, which lucky for them they didn't.

As for Mo Williams, I see him as a top 5 PG in the nba right now! He has been amazing and the only reason why the Bucks have any chance of making the playoffs because they have had next to noone out side of him and Redd. He should be able to get a monster contract and for good reason

TMC wrote:

migya wrote:Jefferson has come on well the last month but he is expendable for a top 2 to 5 pick. The Celts could get their hands on the top 2 picks and that would mean filling to frontline spots with Oden and Durant! Ainge would go for that.

Jefferson is not available for trades. Boston even refused to trade him for Pau (which killed any chance the Celtics had of making that trade). Again... could happen for a top two pick. Again, wouldn't make sense for Philly.

Ainge surely is not that stupid! Jefferson COULD be great but even I'm losing some faith as he still has not become a monster and looks lacking. Getting his hands on both top picks (or there abouts) in the draft would be enough for Ainge and Jefferson would be nice (maybe more maybe not) for the sixers and someone else like Delonte or another of the Celts young guys could be had as well. Again, I was just showing that there are options for the sixers

TMC wrote:

migya wrote:Randolph is a headcase who has done surprisingly well this seson after he was dropping previously but the Blazers are going young in rebuilding and getting a top 2 to 5 pick in this draft would be ideal. They would not be so in love with Randolph.

I can see this happening, but you know how I feel about Randolph... No way I'd do this trade from Philly's standpoint.

I'm not a fan of Randolph's attitude, but am of his ability! The sixers wouldn't go for this, unless a youngster like Webster was included and that could well be unlikely. Just showing that there are options again

TMC wrote:

migya wrote:As far as the Pacers and Jermaine - They have been rocky for the past two seasons and after the the trade to get Murphy, dun and Diogu, Jermaine is likely not going to stay with them. Getting a top 2 to 5 pick would be a dream for the Pacers as they will never get anywhere near the same value in return for Jermaine, as always happens when trading superstars

Jermaine won't be traded until he demands to be traded. And, in that case, he probably won't want to go to Philly.

Well all things look grim for Jermaine and the Pacers as the new lineup after the trade with the Warriors does not favour Jermaine and he likely will want out, as he has for some time. The sixers would not be the desired destination for Jermaine but anyway

migya wrote:Who says the sixers need to trade all their good players in order to tank the season or get into the top 2 or 3 in the draft!

They shouldn't trade their good YOUNG guys... but a PG in his 30s?. He won't be around by the time they're competitive again. It would be different if Miller were 5 years younger.

migya wrote:Well, if Villa was that great (which he hasn't been this season), the sixers would be smart to take a look at him and see a possibilty of trading their pick, likely #2 in the draft, for Villa and someone else, maybe a future 1st rounder of the Bucks. My point was to show that the sixers have options and they did not have to trade away all their good players, which lucky for them they didn't.

As for Mo Williams, I see him as a top 5 PG in the nba right now! He has been amazing and the only reason why the Bucks have any chance of making the playoffs because they have had next to noone out side of him and Redd. He should be able to get a monster contract and for good reason

Villa can't be properly evaluated this season, due to his injury... and Mo is good, but not top 5. Far from that. He's just a very good scoring PG. He'll get a contract around $7-8 million per year, not more.

migya wrote:Ainge surely is not that stupid! Jefferson COULD be great but even I'm losing some faith as he still has not become a monster and looks lacking.

Lacking what?. He's become a double-double machine this season, and is, by far, the only Celtic worth some praise right now.

TMC wrote:

migya wrote:Who says the sixers need to trade all their good players in order to tank the season or get into the top 2 or 3 in the draft!

They shouldn't trade their good YOUNG guys... but a PG in his 30s?. He won't be around by the time they're competitive again. It would be different if Miller were 5 years younger.

AMiller is one of the best playmaking PGs in thenba right now and he makes some players around him better, as he is doing with Iguodala. Miller is also pretty allround and PGs as good as him aren't found easy and without a proper PG, the sixers would never be any good, doesn't matter if they get Oden or even if they got Duncan! AMiller is ideal for them and he will be as effective as he is for another 4 or 5 years at least as he doesn't rely on his athleticism and is not injuryprone at all

TMC wrote:

migya wrote:Well, if Villa was that great (which he hasn't been this season), the sixers would be smart to take a look at him and see a possibilty of trading their pick, likely #2 in the draft, for Villa and someone else, maybe a future 1st rounder of the Bucks. My point was to show that the sixers have options and they did not have to trade away all their good players, which lucky for them they didn't.

As for Mo Williams, I see him as a top 5 PG in the nba right now! He has been amazing and the only reason why the Bucks have any chance of making the playoffs because they have had next to noone out side of him and Redd. He should be able to get a monster contract and for good reason

Villa can't be properly evaluated this season, due to his injury... and Mo is good, but not top 5. Far from that. He's just a very good scoring PG. He'll get a contract around $7-8 million per year, not more.

Villa wasn't that impressive at the start of the season when he was healthy, he had flashes of being great but he just didn't do a whole lot.

Mo Williams is one of the most allround PGs in the nba! He was one of your favourites in the offseason (not one of mine I must admit but he has made a believer out of me) and he has shown this season that he is one of the best PGs right now! He is doing great recently and that is without Redd and opposition defenses geared against him as the Bucks have noone else that really causes any probalems

TMC wrote:

migya wrote:Ainge surely is not that stupid! Jefferson COULD be great but even I'm losing some faith as he still has not become a monster and looks lacking.

Lacking what?. He's become a double-double machine this season, and is, by far, the only Celtic worth some praise right now.

Jeferson has been doing well for the last month and a half but before that he was coasting along. Al Jefferson should be great but he just hasn't and it must be for lack of motivation because he has the physical skills and he is on the right team to flourish, as Pierce is a superstar, there is really not many others that are big time scorers and the Celts frontline is pretty awful

migya wrote:Mo Williams is one of the most allround PGs in the nba! He was one of your favourites in the offseason (not one of mine I must admit but he has made a believer out of me) and he has shown this season that he is one of the best PGs right now!

I still like him, but he plays no defense and is a trigger-happy PG. He's really good at what he does, but he's far from a complete player...

I'd say he's top 15... arguably top 10. But not more.

TMC wrote:

migya wrote:You never trade a superstar for nothing! It would have been stupid for the sixers to get next to nothing for Iverson! AMiler fils the PG position real well and that is the 2nd hardest position to fil well, after Center.

Yes, you do. That's what tanking the season is all about. They trade stars to get worse, get more picks for the draft and hope you're so bad that the team ends up with a top 2 pick (for this draft, in which there will be 2 players above anyone else).

Of course, Billy King is too dumb to understand that... which is surprising, because even Danny Ainge has been able to understand that they have to lose as much as possible.

migya wrote:They are not at the "backend of the draft" but may get a top 5 pick if not top 2! The trade put them in a good position to get a very high draft pick and gave them tradeable pieces like Joe Smith, who could be a filler in any trade scenario

Joe Smith is a expirer. If anything, they should have traded him in this deadline, alongside Miller. But he's more valuable to Phily as a expirer than as a player...

migya wrote:The Bucks would gladly give up Villa and anyone else besides Mo Williams and Redd for a top 2 pick! Villa is good but has not done that well at all with the Bucks.

Mo Williams is a free agent at the end of the season. And they won't trade Villa if not for a top 2 pick but that wouldn't make sense for Philly. You don't trade Oden or Durant for Charlie... no matter how good Villa is.

migya wrote:Jefferson has come on well the last month but he is expendable for a top 2 to 5 pick. The Celts could get their hands on the top 2 picks and that would mean filling to frontline spots with Oden and Durant! Ainge would go for that.

Jefferson is not available for trades. Boston even refused to trade him for Pau (which killed any chance the Celtics had of making that trade). Again... could happen for a top two pick. Again, wouldn't make sense for Philly.

migya wrote:Randolph is a headcase who has done surprisingly well this seson after he was dropping previously but the Blazers are going young in rebuilding and getting a top 2 to 5 pick in this draft would be ideal. They would not be so in love with Randolph.

I can see this happening, but you know how I feel about Randolph... No way I'd do this trade from Philly's standpoint.

migya wrote:As far as the Pacers and Jermaine - They have been rocky for the past two seasons and after the the trade to get Murphy, dun and Diogu, Jermaine is likely not going to stay with them. Getting a top 2 to 5 pick would be a dream for the Pacers as they will never get anywhere near the same value in return for Jermaine, as always happens when trading superstars

Jermaine won't be traded until he demands to be traded. And, in that case, he probably won't want to go to Philly.

Thank God for you, TMC.

I was afraid I was gonna have to answer all that.

32 wrote:Thank God for you, TMC.

I was afraid I was gonna have to answer all that.

We'll take turns. Next time you'll do the dirty job.

TMC wrote:

migya wrote:Mo Williams is one of the most allround PGs in the nba! He was one of your favourites in the offseason (not one of mine I must admit but he has made a believer out of me) and he has shown this season that he is one of the best PGs right now!

I still like him, but he plays no defense and is a trigger-happy PG. He's really good at what he does, but he's far from a complete player...

I'd say he's top 15... arguably top 10. But not more.

You'll find Mo Williams will get huge contract offers from a number of teams

migya wrote:

TMC wrote:

migya wrote:Mo Williams is one of the most allround PGs in the nba! He was one of your favourites in the offseason (not one of mine I must admit but he has made a believer out of me) and he has shown this season that he is one of the best PGs right now!

I still like him, but he plays no defense and is a trigger-happy PG. He's really good at what he does, but he's far from a complete player...

I'd say he's top 15... arguably top 10. But not more.

You'll find Mo Williams will get huge contract offers from a number of teams

Could be... but it would be overpaying (not that that's rare in today's NBA).

I think it's stupid to over pay for shoot-first PG's.

Sure, Mo Williams averages 19 PPG on the crappy ass Bucks, but his former competition, TJ Ford, is dropping 8 dimes a night for the Raptors. To me, that's more value from a PG; having a guy who runs the offense well.

It's the difference between Monta and Baron, really. Monta can score in bunches... but when Baron gets everybody involved, the Warriors are unstoppable.

You must look up the facts befroe spurting things out #32

TJ Ford is a very good PG but Mo Williams is doing more this season!


Ford = 14.1pts, 7.7asts, 3.3rebs, 1.2stls, 0.1blks, 44.5 FG%, 32.6 3PTFG% (0.3 3s a game), 79.8 FT% & 3.1 TOs

Williams = 18.7pts, 6.1asts, 5.1rebs, 1.3stls, 0.1blks, 45.4 FG%, 353.9 FT% (1.3 3s a game), 85.6 FT% & 3.1 TOs


Mo Williams scores more, rebounds more, shoots better from the outside and more regularly, has better percentages and averages 6 assists which is very good as well

Calderon is outplaying both of them. Any smart team would trade for him instead of signing those f*ckers to big contracts.

In fact, if they get a good deal, Toronto should trade TJ Ford as soon as possible.

migya wrote::roll: You must look up the facts befroe spurting things out #32

HAHAHAHA, this is coming from you...

migya wrote:TJ Ford is a very good PG but Mo Williams is doing more this season!


Ford = 14.1pts, 7.7asts, 3.3rebs, 1.2stls, 0.1blks, 44.5 FG%, 32.6 3PTFG% (0.3 3s a game), 79.8 FT% & 3.1 TOs

Williams = 18.7pts, 6.1asts, 5.1rebs, 1.3stls, 0.1blks, 45.4 FG%, 353.9 FT% (1.3 3s a game), 85.6 FT% & 3.1 TOs


Mo Williams scores more, rebounds more, shoots better from the outside and more regularly, has better percentages and averages 6 assists which is very good as well

You left out a major stat, miggy: TJ Ford averages 7 less minutes a night than Mo Williams.

That means, per 48 (which can be used here, because they both get a lot of minutes), Ford's steals and blocks are higher, proving he's a better defender. Not only that, but his FG% is within 1 point from Mo Williams, showing he can score just as easily, but takes less shots.

Oh, and per 48? Here's how their assists match up:

Wiliams: 7.9 A/48
Ford: 12.32 A/48

That's a huge difference, migya. WIlliams is clearly a shoot-first PG and Ford is clearly a pass-first PG. There's no sense arguing that. Besides, lets look at the numbers that MATTER (the one's in the win column).

Before the season, everybody had the Bucks pegged for the playoffs, with the Raptors barely missing out. But, currently, Toronto's sitting on a 31-26 record (leading their division), while the Bucks are stuck on 20-37 (dead last in their division). That's clearly not due to better personelle; anybody and their mother would have told you prior to the season that the Bucks have the better team (everyone was especially creaming over the addition of Charlie).

And, somehow, the Raptors are kicking the Bucks asses in the standings...?

Couldn't be due to the fact that they opperate with a pass-first PG, could it?

I know big, fancy numbers impress you miggy, but you've lost another argument. Ford is a better defender, a better passer, and just as good of a shooter as Mo Williams. The only difference is that Mo takes 4 more shots a night... and TJ prefers to get his entire team involved. The difference shows in their records.

32 wrote:Before the season, everybody had the Bucks pegged for the playoffs, with the Raptors barely missing out. But, currently, Toronto's sitting on a 31-26 record (leading their division), while the Bucks are stuck on 20-37 (dead last in their division). That's clearly not due to better personelle; anybody and their mother would have told you prior to the season that the Bucks have the better team (everyone was especially creaming over the addition of Charlie).

And, somehow, the Raptors are kicking the Bucks asses in the standings...?

Couldn't be due to the fact that they opperate with a pass-first PG, could it?

No, it's because the Bucks have been hit hard by injuries. Also, I'm not a big fan of Sam Mitchell... but he's Red Auerbach compared with Stotts. Put a healthy Bucks team in the Atlantic and they'd be leading by 5 games over Toronto.

Also, keep in mind that Toronto has the best player of both rosters in Bosh. That's the guy that changes the balance... not Ford.

TMC wrote:No, it's because the Bucks have been hit hard by injuries. Also, I'm not a big fan of Sam Mitchell... but he's Red Auerbach compared with Stotts. Put a healthy Bucks team in the Atlantic and they'd be leading by 5 games over Toronto.

Also, keep in mind that Toronto has the best player of both rosters in Bosh. That's the guy that changes the balance... not Ford.

The Bucks injuries haven't been enough to put them at the complete bottom of their division. Michael Redd missed a month. That's tough. But their most injury-prone player, thus far, has been Charlie Villenueva, even though he's not a franchise player anyways (he's only giving them 12 and 6, per night).

Andrew Bogut, Charlie Bell, and Ruben Patterson have been healthy all season... and Mo Williams only missed two weeks. What's more: they picked up Earl Boykins for virtually nothing (Steve Blake? Please ).

Aside from Redd being out a month, they've got nothing to bitch about.

And you can't escape by claiming "Bosh is the reason the Raptors have been doing so well", because the guy's putting up identical averages from last season (when they missed the postseason). 23, 10, and 1. Last year, it was 23, 9, and 1. One more rebound a night doesn't cause THIS much improvement.

The truth is, having TJ Ford run the point position, rather than a shoot-first guard like Mo Williams, puts the entire team in the game and often leads to more wins. Look at the Toronto roster. It's practically the same from last season... but the only difference is TJ Ford (a pass-first point) running the show instead of Mike James (a shoot-first PG). James put up numbers VERY similar to Mo Williams last year... and the Craptors stunk.

The only reason you're acting like the Raptors are THAT much better than Bucks is because you hate Terry Stotts. Come on. The ONLY difference between last year's team and this year's team is TJ Ford instead of Mike James. And they're flying through the Atlantic.