ANY MAJOR TRADES?

Discuss any moves or trades here, real, rumored, made up, you name it!

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 1:25 am
TMC wrote:
So, in the end, like I said, Miller gets more assists than Banks. But virtually every other category that matters for a PG (FG%, 3P%, FT% steals, and points) all go to Banks in equal minutes. Miller's a better playmaker; there's no disputing that. But both numbers and playing style prove Banks to be superior in all the other categories.


Both are PGs. There's no other category that matters for a PG. Banks sucks as a PG. If he were taller, he might have been a succesful SG, tho, but as a PG, he sucks. I'd rather have a blind Fisher running my offense.



Then you want to lose!
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 1:31 am
So, in the end, like I said, Miller gets more assists than Banks. But virtually every other category that matters for a PG (FG%, 3P%, FT% steals, and points) all go to Banks in equal minutes. Miller's a better playmaker; there's no disputing that. But both numbers and playing style prove Banks to be superior in all the other categories.


Both are PGs. There's no other category that matters for a PG. Banks sucks as a PG. If he were taller, he might have been a succesful SG, tho, but as a PG, he sucks. I'd rather have a blind Fisher running my offense.



Then you want to lose!


You know, in a weird way... that was my point. :mrgreen:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 10:47 am
1) Marcus banks' stats are inflated because he played PG for two **** teams and played less minutes. 1 more ppg per 48 minutes doesn't show anything when you play for two terrible teams. Not only that but KG is a great passer and draws doubles to set people up. Andre Miller is a better scorer than banks.
2) less than two tenths of a steal per 48 minutes really is meaningless. So he gets an extra steal every six games, big whoop.
3) Miller gets picked more because, while Carmelo is a star, he is not somebody who is going to get doubled like KG. Banks is better controlling the ball than miller, but not by as much as the numbers would indicate.
4) Miller shoots a whole percentage point worse than banks from the field. And four % worse from the foul line. Considering that banks takes less shots and plays less those numbers should be inflated, heck, even Toine shot 45% from the field in a limited role this year. When you play less minutes and take less shots you're less fatigued, playing lesser defenders, and taking worse shots. Not to mention that KG is such a great passer he'd boost one's FG%. I'll give you three pointers and free throws (free throws by a small margin) but no dice on FG%, which is what really matters. 3pt% is fairly meaningless if you're still a worse scorer despite being able to shoot threes.
5) We'll just have to agree to disagree on the defense
So when we normalize everything then basically
Miller has the advantage in scoring(barely), passing(huge), and FG%
Banks has the advantage in ball control, 3P%(huge), and steals (barely)
I'll take the former over the latter any day of the week

So... basically, you used his stats on the normal scale to illustrate your point, but when everything was made fair (via per 48 minutes), suddenly "stats don't tell the whole story" anymore...?

Marcus Banks is a better scorer. He shoots a better percentage from the perimeter and midrange (where 80% of their collective shots are taken). How they finish at the rim is pretty much even... but when they're fouled and go to the line, the advantaged slips to Banks again.

By the way, you mentioned Banks' FG% is inflated because he takes less shots than Miller...? In that case, I think you'll find the following pretty enlightening: Andre Miller shot 10.6 shots a game, hitting 46 percent of them. Marcus Banks (in Minnesota) shot 9.7 shots a game and hit 48% of the time. Miller is shooting a worse percentage because he throwing up a whopping 0.9 more shots per night than Marcus Banks...?

But lets assume your logic is correct in the opposite fashion: is Marcus Banks' 3-point average also inflated due to him taking less perimeter shots? Nope. In fact, he takes almost a full shot more from the perimeter (1.1) than Miller (0.4) per game... and hits a higher percentage. No need to blame that on KG (like you did on everything else in the post): he shot the same amount in Boston (1.3) and hit it just as well.

So, in the end, like I said, Miller gets more assists than Banks. But virtually every other category that matters for a PG (FG%, 3P%, FT% steals, and points) all go to Banks in equal minutes. Miller's a better playmaker; there's no disputing that. But both numbers and playing style prove Banks to be superior in all the other categories.
[/quote]
I believe that fatigue+KG+extra shot = at least one % on FG shooting.
I already gave you 3p shooting but since he only takes one per game it isn't a big deak.
As I said in the above post, .2 steals/48 minutes advantage is pretty close to meaningless.
Miller is an equal or better scorer, and equal or better FG shooter, and a better passer
Banks' steals are better by such a small margin that it's really meaningless (one extra steal every six games!)
banks' 3p% and ft% matter very little because miller is scoring more pts. I think it doesn't matter how you get your points as long as you get them. Your main man shaq has a worse 3p% and ft% than murphy, who would you rather have?
Most importantly, the reason banks doesn't get any minutes is because he either
A) doesn't have the staminat
or
B) isn't good enough


But these stats are meaningless to a degree when you realize this: Miller is playing with a perrenial SMOY candidate as his backup and still getting better minutes than banks, who is playing with troy, "the worst defender in the league" hudson as a backup. That alone should be enough.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 11:22 am
Yeah. Troy Hudson also sucks. Almost as much as Banks. \:D/
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 11:50 am
I'm done with this thread. Nobody's responses have any substance. People are disagreeing just to disagree.

Take a cue from my sig and recognize the truth: You don't have to LIKE Marcus Banks, but you WILL recognize the skills. Say he's "not a good PG", make up lame KG excuses, dismiss actual stats, and boycott the truth if you hate him THAT much... but I'm through arguing with you people. There's no rhyme or reason to your side anymore, aside from TMC's "I hate Banks" deal (which I think is more comic relief than anything).
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 12:02 pm
Take a cue from my sig and recognize the truth: You don't have to LIKE Marcus Banks, but you WILL recognize the skills.


What skills? :mrgreen:
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 1:00 pm
I'm done with this thread. Nobody's responses have any substance. People are disagreeing just to disagree.

Take a cue from my sig and recognize the truth: You don't have to LIKE Marcus Banks, but you WILL recognize the skills. Say he's "not a good PG", make up lame KG excuses, dismiss actual stats, and boycott the truth if you hate him THAT much... but I'm through arguing with you people. There's no rhyme or reason to your side anymore, aside from TMC's "I hate Banks" deal (which I think is more comic relief than anything).

The reality is, if marcus banks played for denver he'd get maybe 25 minutes per game and might even back up to boykins. Andre miller has one of the best backup PGs in the league and banks has a terrible one and Miller still plays more minutes. Rationalize that if banks is a better player.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 1:22 pm
Miller's been in the league longer... with a chance to prove himself from the start, on Cleveland... whereas Banks has been roadblocked the past few years on Boston and is just now starting to show his stuff.

BTW, how does me saying "Banks is a better defensive player" suddenly melt into a "whose the better all-around player" argument? If you're asking me, I'd take Miller on my starting lineup over Banks because a point guard's main duty is to pass the ball... but you'd better believe Banks would be in the game if I was trying to keep a lead. He's a far better defender. That was my only point to begin with.
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 4:39 pm
It sounds like the suns are interested in getting banks, which would mean either he'd be the third string or they're looking to move leandro
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 7:11 pm
TMC wrote:Yeah. Troy Hudson also sucks. Almost as much as Banks. \:D/



Troy Hudson was very good in his first season in the TWolves. He really has disappeared, mostly due to injuries
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 12:55 am
Troy Hudson was very good in his first season in the TWolves. He really has disappeared, mostly due to injuries


Hudson was a shoot first, shoot second PG. He was good at that. That's all. Great player for one of those streeball tourneaments in which he can do it all by himself, but don't let some decent scoring numbers fool you. Hudson sucks.

And now that we are talking seriously, Hudson sucks more than Banks. You cannot imagine how much it pains me to say so. :wink:
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 4:20 pm
Suns signed banks. Which means that the marion+leandro for fortson+Lewis is a lot more likely since what're the suns gonna do with three starter quality point guards
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 6:23 pm
tHe_dIsEaSe wrote:Suns signed banks. Which means that the marion+leandro for fortson+Lewis is a lot more likely since what're the suns gonna do with three starter quality point guards



Suns would get riped off on that deal!!!! Marion is alot better than Lewis and Barbosa just had his best season and Fortson hardly played! I'd trade Marion and Barbosa for Lewis, Ridnour and future 1st round pick
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 6:44 pm
Seattle would be insane to do that trade. Ridnoir is starting quality; Barbosa simply sucked off the teat of Steve Nash. Plus, throwing in a future first rounder would be stupid, considering Seattle has been in the toilet as of late.

It's true, Marion is better than Lewis... but Lewis is the kind of player that would thrive in a Steve Nash offense, so it all equals out. An athletic superstar who can shoot the long ball. Sounds like the kind of guy Steve Nash could turn into a 30 PPG scorer. The trade sounds fair enough to me. Both teams improve.
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 7:33 pm
Ridnour is good but will never be more than just good, never very good! Lewis would thrive with Nash but unless Amare is healthy and rebounding and blocking shots, and unless Diaw continues to be as good as he has been, playing defense especially, the Suns will lose much without Marion becasue he does it all except passing! Barbosa is an energizer and that is something the Sonics don't really have. If they resign Wilcox and he plays well like he has shown he can, with Marion and Allen, they finally would have three players that can carry them, better than they have had in years
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