ANY MAJOR TRADES?

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 6:12 pm
Bank is cooll
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2006 10:32 pm
~W~ wrote:Bank is cooll



I hate all Banks! Except Marcus Banks that is :mrgreen:
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migya make the ring fall on ya
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 12:57 am
Bank is cooll

I hate all Banks! Except Marcus Banks that is :mrgreen:


I only hate one. Marcus, that is. :mrgreen:

But just as long as people keep overrating his non-existant pg skills...
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 12:16 pm
The numbers speak for themselves. After his trade to Minny, Marcus Banks showed that he's a quality, starting-caliber PG.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 12:51 pm
#32 wrote:The numbers speak for themselves. After his trade to Minny, Marcus Banks showed that he's a quality, starting-caliber PG.

I'll take miller's 13 and 8 (and superior defense) over banks' 11 and 5.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 1:12 pm
Superior defense?!?!

Over Marcus Banks???

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 3:24 pm
miller is a phenomenal defender, he does everything except shoot. If he could shoot he would be amazing
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 3:56 pm
:roll: God, you're gonna make me actually debate with you over this...

Marcus Banks is a far better man-to-man defender. As far as help defense, they're probably dead even... but Banks is head and shoulders above Miller as far as pressuring the ball and stopping momentum.

By the way, it's real easy to say you'd rather have 13 and 8 instead of 12 and 5... but when the minutes get thrown into the mix, you see how slanted that looks. Andre Miller played an average of 36 minutes a night last season... while Marcus Banks only got 30. To put it into realistic perspective, let's use per 48-minute stat's:

Banks:
19.2 PPG, 7.52 APG, 1.92 SPG, 3.2 T/O's per game

Miller:
18.2 PPG, 10.6 APG, 1.73 SPG, 4.1 T/O's per game

Miller (who, I've admitted, is a better passer) gets more assists... but also throws more turnovers. Banks grabs more steals, gets less picks, and scores more points (while shooting a better percentage acrossed the board than Miller in FG's, 3's, and FT's). If you'd rather have more assists than, sure, take Miller. But if you want more points, more steals, better %'s, and less turn-overs (along with a quicker player who plays better up-front defense), than the obvious choice is Marcus Banks.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 6:41 pm
I don't like Andre Miller. All he's good for are lobs and yelling really loud when he goes for a layup. Watching him try to drive and finish at the rim makes me cringe. A lot like when Fish used to try to drive to the rim and fail miserably.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 7:48 pm
Hoonyo wrote:I don't like Andre Miller. All he's good for are lobs and yelling really loud when he goes for a layup. Watching him try to drive and finish at the rim makes me cringe. A lot like when Fish used to try to drive to the rim and fail miserably.



Yet he gets a ton of assists and is a successful nba PG!
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 7:49 pm
:roll: God, you're gonna make me actually debate with you over this...

Marcus Banks is a far better man-to-man defender. As far as help defense, they're probably dead even... but Banks is head and shoulders above Miller as far as pressuring the ball and stopping momentum.

By the way, it's real easy to say you'd rather have 13 and 8 instead of 12 and 5... but when the minutes get thrown into the mix, you see how slanted that looks. Andre Miller played an average of 36 minutes a night last season... while Marcus Banks only got 30. To put it into realistic perspective, let's use per 48-minute stat's:

Banks:
19.2 PPG, 7.52 APG, 1.92 SPG, 3.2 T/O's per game

Miller:
18.2 PPG, 10.6 APG, 1.73 SPG, 4.1 T/O's per game

Miller (who, I've admitted, is a better passer) gets more assists... but also throws more turnovers. Banks grabs more steals, gets less picks, and scores more points (while shooting a better percentage acrossed the board than Miller in FG's, 3's, and FT's). If you'd rather have more assists than, sure, take Miller. But if you want more points, more steals, better %'s, and less turn-overs (along with a quicker player who plays better up-front defense), than the obvious choice is Marcus Banks.

1) Marcus banks' stats are inflated because he played PG for two **** teams and played less minutes. 1 more ppg per 48 minutes doesn't show anything when you play for two terrible teams. Not only that but KG is a great passer and draws doubles to set people up. Andre Miller is a better scorer than banks.
2) less than two tenths of a steal per 48 minutes really is meaningless. So he gets an extra steal every six games, big whoop.
3) Miller gets picked more because, while Carmelo is a star, he is not somebody who is going to get doubled like KG. Banks is better controlling the ball than miller, but not by as much as the numbers would indicate.
4) Miller shoots a whole percentage point worse than banks from the field. And four % worse from the foul line. Considering that banks takes less shots and plays less those numbers should be inflated, heck, even Toine shot 45% from the field in a limited role this year. When you play less minutes and take less shots you're less fatigued, playing lesser defenders, and taking worse shots. Not to mention that KG is such a great passer he'd boost one's FG%. I'll give you three pointers and free throws (free throws by a small margin) but no dice on FG%, which is what really matters. 3pt% is fairly meaningless if you're still a worse scorer despite being able to shoot threes.
5) We'll just have to agree to disagree on the defense
So when we normalize everything then basically
Miller has the advantage in scoring(barely), passing(huge), and FG%
Banks has the advantage in ball control, 3P%(huge), and steals (barely)
I'll take the former over the latter any day of the week
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 8:03 pm
Andre Miller right now is a much better player than Marcus Banks but Banks has potential to be a very good PG. I reckon Miller's ability to set people up and run a team would be great for the Warriors if Diogu, Ellis, Biedrins or O'bryant and Pietrus or another SF really become efficient. Baron is real good but not all the time and he is yet to make the team a winner. Miller might not also but he can run a team real well
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 10:25 pm
1) Marcus banks' stats are inflated because he played PG for two **** teams and played less minutes. 1 more ppg per 48 minutes doesn't show anything when you play for two terrible teams. Not only that but KG is a great passer and draws doubles to set people up. Andre Miller is a better scorer than banks.
2) less than two tenths of a steal per 48 minutes really is meaningless. So he gets an extra steal every six games, big whoop.
3) Miller gets picked more because, while Carmelo is a star, he is not somebody who is going to get doubled like KG. Banks is better controlling the ball than miller, but not by as much as the numbers would indicate.
4) Miller shoots a whole percentage point worse than banks from the field. And four % worse from the foul line. Considering that banks takes less shots and plays less those numbers should be inflated, heck, even Toine shot 45% from the field in a limited role this year. When you play less minutes and take less shots you're less fatigued, playing lesser defenders, and taking worse shots. Not to mention that KG is such a great passer he'd boost one's FG%. I'll give you three pointers and free throws (free throws by a small margin) but no dice on FG%, which is what really matters. 3pt% is fairly meaningless if you're still a worse scorer despite being able to shoot threes.
5) We'll just have to agree to disagree on the defense
So when we normalize everything then basically
Miller has the advantage in scoring(barely), passing(huge), and FG%
Banks has the advantage in ball control, 3P%(huge), and steals (barely)
I'll take the former over the latter any day of the week

So... basically, you used his stats on the normal scale to illustrate your point, but when everything was made fair (via per 48 minutes), suddenly "stats don't tell the whole story" anymore...?

Marcus Banks is a better scorer. He shoots a better percentage from the perimeter and midrange (where 80% of their collective shots are taken). How they finish at the rim is pretty much even... but when they're fouled and go to the line, the advantaged slips to Banks again.

By the way, you mentioned Banks' FG% is inflated because he takes less shots than Miller...? In that case, I think you'll find the following pretty enlightening: Andre Miller shot 10.6 shots a game, hitting 46 percent of them. Marcus Banks (in Minnesota) shot 9.7 shots a game and hit 48% of the time. Miller is shooting a worse percentage because he throwing up a whopping 0.9 more shots per night than Marcus Banks...?

But lets assume your logic is correct in the opposite fashion: is Marcus Banks' 3-point average also inflated due to him taking less perimeter shots? Nope. In fact, he takes almost a full shot more from the perimeter (1.1) than Miller (0.4) per game... and hits a higher percentage. No need to blame that on KG (like you did on everything else in the post): he shot the same amount in Boston (1.3) and hit it just as well.

So, in the end, like I said, Miller gets more assists than Banks. But virtually every other category that matters for a PG (FG%, 3P%, FT% steals, and points) all go to Banks in equal minutes. Miller's a better playmaker; there's no disputing that. But both numbers and playing style prove Banks to be superior in all the other categories.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 11:05 pm
EVEN if I give you that all of those advantages are real advantages, banks is only MARGINALLY better in most of those stats, even if he is better. whereas miller massacres banks' family in assists.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 11:40 pm
So, in the end, like I said, Miller gets more assists than Banks. But virtually every other category that matters for a PG (FG%, 3P%, FT% steals, and points) all go to Banks in equal minutes. Miller's a better playmaker; there's no disputing that. But both numbers and playing style prove Banks to be superior in all the other categories.


Both are PGs. There's no other category that matters for a PG. Banks sucks as a PG. If he were taller, he might have been a succesful SG, tho, but as a PG, he sucks. I'd rather have a blind Fisher running my offense.
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