Tim Hardaway - Homophobe

Area for news articles related to the Warriors

Moderators: Mr. Crackerz, JREED, Guybrush, hobbes

User avatar
Role Player
Posts: 357
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2005 1:22 am
Location: Oakland
Poster Credit: 0
PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 12:37 pm
#32, I see what you're saying, but what makes you think anyone would necessarily want to look at you seductively? Why not give someone the benefit of the doubt AS A HUMAN BEING rather than chalk their their actions/feelings up to stale old stereotypes? If you were put into the situation, why not try to get over the stigma to see what happens? What happens most of the time - absolutely nothing. Worst case scenario - you get a funny look. Not the biggest deal to me. But I feel like I already pointed out why that probably wouldn't happen. And the analogies you gave - come on. You compare a kid whose life could possibly be endangered by talking to a stranger in comparison to the remote possibility of getting a strange look form a gay teammate? I get your point that you want to not be involved in risky situations because you don't want to chance it, I just don't see what is so risky about putting your trust in a gay teammate and changing with them, especially when the risk is just getting a weird look. It seems like the reward - being able to feel open towards and trusting of another human being and teammate who happens to be pretty different from you - is worth the low risk. I think I remember you saying you were religious a while back, and I'm just wondering how that plays into this issue for you? You seem to have a much more nuanced and open view about gay people as compared to some religious fanatics. And I never said you were bigoted or anything close to that.

I find it kind of amusing that straight guys all over seem to be upset at the thought of being 'objectified' by another man. Maybe they know what women feel like now! The thought that a gay man seeing another man naked could turn him on because a straight guy seeing a naked girl would turn him on is valid. I love seeing naked women. But what about the clothed ones? Are we not just as attacted to clothed women? And what does that say about us being around gay guys in regular situations? Could they not be attracted to us then? Does that mean we should separate ourselves from them always, at the risk of getting a 'seductive look'? I know this is all silly hypothetical stuff, but I feel the questions need to be asked, because it tends to be a slippery slope when people start coming to conclusions about this. I guess I just see myslef as a secure, straight male, whole wouldn't mind sharing the locker room with a gay guy. And I know that other people are different. What's important is that we are able to talk about it in a manner such as this, with people who have differeing views from our own. I'm definitely grateful for that. If we can't share our views openly, we're just as bad as people like Hardaway. So #32, if you thought I was calling you names, I apologize. I guess I just feel pretty strongly about this because I have close gay family members and friends who have to deal with all sorts of crap all the time.
Basketball hope in the City Of Dope?
User avatar
Hall of Famer
Posts: 13536
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2005 10:03 pm
Location: Golden State
Poster Credit: 52
PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 12:58 pm
Dude, if a kid losing his life is the worst case scenario to talking with a stranger, than rape is the worst case scenario to changing clothes next to a homsexual. You gotta be consistent with your examples.

In both of the above cases, it can be concluded that the stranger and the homosexual are both twisted, minorities giving a bad name to their respective parts of society. Just like most sane adults won't kidnap and/or kill a child, most gay people won't rape or abuse a teammate in a locker room.

This whole issue just really boils down to the individual. You, for example, would feel totally fine changing next to a gay person. I, on the other hand, would not.

But, by the same token, I'm sure there are other situations that make you uncomfortable... and wouldn't necessarily do anything to me.

I know, for one, my girlfriend doesn't like going to parties hosted by my wealthy grandparents because she's afraid of getting into an uncomfortable conversation with somebody there. When everybody's kids are going to law school and they ask you where you're going, it stings a little to admit that you're at a JC. But I don't think she holds anything against my grandparents (or their friends). Its just a situation that she would prefer to avoid. And I think that's okay. It does no harm and everyone goes on with their business. I'd imagine my decision to change in a separate room would probably yeild the same result: nobody would get hurt and we'd take the field ready to play.

Changing elsewhere doesn't make my gay teammate any less of a teammates; if anything, it makes ME the isolated one. Why is it wrong for me to isolate myself, while doing no harm to my gay teammate (especially, if it prevents me from being uncomfortable)?
Image
GOLDEN STATE WARRIORS DIE HARD
Image
Image
User avatar
Role Player
Posts: 357
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2005 1:22 am
Location: Oakland
Poster Credit: 0
PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 2:37 pm
Look, little kids getting abducted by strangers is a semi-common occurance. Athletes getting raped by their gay teammates is not. In fact, it's never happened to my knowledge.
Basketball hope in the City Of Dope?
User avatar
All Star
Posts: 3042
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 5:42 pm
Poster Credit: 0
PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 3:15 pm
32 wrote:Dude, if a kid losing his life is the worst case scenario to talking with a stranger, than rape is the worst case scenario to changing clothes next to a homsexual. You gotta be consistent with your examples.

In both of the above cases, it can be concluded that the stranger and the homosexual are both twisted, minorities giving a bad name to their respective parts of society. Just like most sane adults won't kidnap and/or kill a child, most gay people won't rape or abuse a teammate in a locker room.

This whole issue just really boils down to the individual. You, for example, would feel totally fine changing next to a gay person. I, on the other hand, would not.

But, by the same token, I'm sure there are other situations that make you uncomfortable... and wouldn't necessarily do anything to me.

I know, for one, my girlfriend doesn't like going to parties hosted by my wealthy grandparents because she's afraid of getting into an uncomfortable conversation with somebody there. When everybody's kids are going to law school and they ask you where you're going, it stings a little to admit that you're at a JC. But I don't think she holds anything against my grandparents (or their friends). Its just a situation that she would prefer to avoid. And I think that's okay. It does no harm and everyone goes on with their business. I'd imagine my decision to change in a separate room would probably yeild the same result: nobody would get hurt and we'd take the field ready to play.

Changing elsewhere doesn't make my gay teammate any less of a teammates; if anything, it makes ME the isolated one. Why is it wrong for me to isolate myself, while doing no harm to my gay teammate (especially, if it prevents me from being uncomfortable)?

32 - you do know there is about 100% chance you have changed or showered in front of gay guys in the locker room or taken a piss in front of them in the john??? They just didn't tell you...Still, if you would want to change elsewhere because you were afraid an openly gay teammate was checking you out, I guess you would. We all change and evolve. There was a time when a white man would have been horrified to see a black man drink from the same water fountain or swim in the same swimming pool. I remember the first time I heard about gay marriage, and I had a violently disgusted reaction and thought the idea was laughable at best. I came around and realized the problem was my thinking and now it seems like a fundamental human right to me.
To Live is A Value Judgment - Albert Camus
3 reasons for living: Jazz, Hoops and women

President Barack Hussein Obama - America chose Hope over Fear
ImageImage
User avatar
Hall of Famer
Posts: 13536
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2005 10:03 pm
Location: Golden State
Poster Credit: 52
PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 4:33 pm
baytobrooklyn wrote:Look, little kids getting abducted by strangers is a semi-common occurance. Athletes getting raped by their gay teammates is not. In fact, it's never happened to my knowledge.

Again, you can't let one example (the kids) encompass every child in the world... while the homosexual example only includes athletes. While I'll admitting abduction is a more common crime than rape, it's also viewed as a lesser crime in our legal system.

And, colt, I'm not afraid that I'm going to "catch" gayness by changing in the same room as a homosexual, it just makes me uncomfortable.

Would everybody disagreeing with me be offended by the notion of women feeling uncomfortable changing with men? Is it because rape is any more likey? Or is it simply because its an uncomfortable situation for the women?

I don't understand the difference...
Image
GOLDEN STATE WARRIORS DIE HARD
Image
Image
User avatar
All Star
Posts: 3042
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 5:42 pm
Poster Credit: 0
PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 8:17 pm
32 wrote:
baytobrooklyn wrote:Look, little kids getting abducted by strangers is a semi-common occurance. Athletes getting raped by their gay teammates is not. In fact, it's never happened to my knowledge.

Again, you can't let one example (the kids) encompass every child in the world... while the homosexual example only includes athletes. While I'll admitting abduction is a more common crime than rape, it's also viewed as a lesser crime in our legal system.

And, colt, I'm not afraid that I'm going to "catch" gayness by changing in the same room as a homosexual, it just makes me uncomfortable.

Would everybody disagreeing with me be offended by the notion of women feeling uncomfortable changing with men? Is it because rape is any more likey? Or is it simply because its an uncomfortable situation for the women?

I don't understand the difference...

32, I never said you were afraid you were going to catch gayness. I'm sure you aren't. What I said was I am pretty certain your views will evolve. And like I said, whether you know it or not, you have been seen on numerous occasions by gays in the locker room. If we need an analogy, it would be like being in a locker room with a lesbian. She's not going to be interested in guys and gays are not going to be interested in straights...
To Live is A Value Judgment - Albert Camus
3 reasons for living: Jazz, Hoops and women

President Barack Hussein Obama - America chose Hope over Fear
ImageImage
User avatar
Hall of Famer
Posts: 13536
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2005 10:03 pm
Location: Golden State
Poster Credit: 52
PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 11:43 pm
Attraction doesn't discriminate; if a gay person thinks a guy is cute, I'm sure his sexual preference has nothing to do with it. I think some lesbian girls I've met are gorgeous (and they, likewise, thought a few of my straight girl buddies were cute). Just because a man is gay doesn't mean he's solely attracted to other gay men.

And I'm sure my views will evolve. But that doesn't mean its because I'm wrong; its because nobody's opinions are set in stone. I can't name one subject that I haven't enhanced my opinion on in the past 5 years.

Why is it bothering so many people that I would prefer to change in a different room from a gay person?

I'm not discriminating them anymore than I would discriminate a women who wanted to change in a guy's bathroom. The bottom line is principle. Women change in a different room from men due, mostly, to attraction and sexuality. Why should a gay person be allowed to view whomever he desires in a dressing room, whereas I can't?

This is like me calling women sexist for not letting me change with them.
Image
GOLDEN STATE WARRIORS DIE HARD
Image
Image
User avatar
All Star
Posts: 3042
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 5:42 pm
Poster Credit: 0
PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 12:29 am
Dude. trust me, gay guys see you naked in the locker room all the time. It may even have happened that one of them thought you were cute. The only difference is YOU don't know they are gay. Tell me what changes for you when you find out that your friend socool, who has been showering with you after the pickup games for 4 years and never done anything remotely forward, tells you he is gay? I am just not following it. Anyway, I could care less if you want to leave and go to another place to change, your prerogative, but gay guys have had plenty of opportunity to hit on you in the locker room in your life already, you just didn't know. The odds are, if we go into a locker room with 100 guys in it, 5-10 of them are gay...
To Live is A Value Judgment - Albert Camus
3 reasons for living: Jazz, Hoops and women

President Barack Hussein Obama - America chose Hope over Fear
ImageImage
User avatar
Hall of Famer
Posts: 13536
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2005 10:03 pm
Location: Golden State
Poster Credit: 52
PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 12:43 am
This is a dead-end conversation. I don't think we're gonna change each other's minds.

Ah well. Agree to disagree. :wink:
Image
GOLDEN STATE WARRIORS DIE HARD
Image
Image
User avatar
All Star
Posts: 3042
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 5:42 pm
Poster Credit: 0
PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 11:07 am
32 wrote:This is a dead-end conversation. I don't think we're gonna change each other's minds.

Ah well. Agree to disagree. :wink:

fair enough, bro 8)
To Live is A Value Judgment - Albert Camus
3 reasons for living: Jazz, Hoops and women

President Barack Hussein Obama - America chose Hope over Fear
ImageImage
User avatar
Hall of Famer
Posts: 18461
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:48 am
Location: Somewhere in this site...
Poster Credit: -4
PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 8:24 am
I'm a bit late...

coltraning wrote:Dude. trust me, gay guys see you naked in the locker room all the time. It may even have happened that one of them thought you were cute. The only difference is YOU don't know they are gay.


I understand why the situation would be uncomfortable for some people, like #32 says. I mean, it's a new phenomenon... It'd be strange if everybody felt right from the very beginning. That will change with time (I hope so, at least).

What I can't understand is the need to make it public. I mean, a teammate is gay... so what?. I'm not going to my job telling everybody about my sexual orientation... Why does it have to be public knowledge?.

Of course we have been with gay guys on locker rooms (on numbers alone, there's a big probability, as Colt pointed)... But what is weird is telling everybody, not just your friends or relatives. Making it public is putting you on the spotlight, and that's part of what scares people.
User avatar
Hall of Famer
Posts: 13536
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2005 10:03 pm
Location: Golden State
Poster Credit: 52
PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 10:13 am
TMC wrote:What I can't understand is the need to make it public. I mean, a teammate is gay... so what?. I'm not going to my job telling everybody about my sexual orientation... Why does it have to be public knowledge?.

In Amaechi's case, it's money. With all the bad hype from Tim Hardaway, going along with the shock of his confession to begin with, his book with likely rake in more money than his NBA career ever did.
Image
GOLDEN STATE WARRIORS DIE HARD
Image
Image
User avatar
All Star
Posts: 3042
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 5:42 pm
Poster Credit: 0
PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 11:52 am
TMC wrote:I'm a bit late...

coltraning wrote:Dude. trust me, gay guys see you naked in the locker room all the time. It may even have happened that one of them thought you were cute. The only difference is YOU don't know they are gay.


I understand why the situation would be uncomfortable for some people, like #32 says. I mean, it's a new phenomenon... It'd be strange if everybody felt right from the very beginning. That will change with time (I hope so, at least).

What I can't understand is the need to make it public. I mean, a teammate is gay... so what?. I'm not going to my job telling everybody about my sexual orientation... Why does it have to be public knowledge?.

Of course we have been with gay guys on locker rooms (on numbers alone, there's a big probability, as Colt pointed)... But what is weird is telling everybody, not just your friends or relatives. Making it public is putting you on the spotlight, and that's part of what scares people.

All change is uncomfortable, TMC, and that is a common complaint, why do they have to let everyone know? I think that as long as being gay is thought of as a stigma and shameful, and people are persecuted for their sexuality, it will take great courage for these folks to come out. Flip the script. Imagine hanging with a bunch of guys who regularly referred to guys who slept with women in the most hateful and disparaging ways, and we couldn't say a damn thing cause we were afraid of being "outed" as p**sy lovers, etc...imagine having to keep completely quiet about the most intrinsic part of your nature, not talk about your wife or girlfriend, not have pics of your kids and wife on the wall, basically live a lie, in fear that you would be shunned or even attacked if you were identified as a chickf**ker. We would find that an utter misery and untenable. That is exactly what gays go through in many situations now. By the same token, when folks stop irrationally hating and fearing gays, it won't be any kind of issue. My wife is in the theater world, and sexuality is a complete non-issue there. People are free to be whatever they want and be with whoever they want and no one cares...by people's reactions it is still a huge issue in the sports world, since the stereotype is that macho guys are not gay. Ironic, since football probably has the largest # of closet cases of any sport, according to surveys. Anecdotally, friends of mine who have played football confirm this. The reality is, it is hard for bigots to hate people they personally know, whether black, Jewish, Gay, muslim, etc...since they have to deal with an individual rather than a stereotype.

Tangentially, I remember a lecture my wife and I attended on STDs when we were doing outreach to innercity youth. Apparently, it is extremely hard for a circumcised hetero man to get AIDS from a woman in any of the traditional methods of hetero vaginal and oral sex or even pitching in anal sex while very easy to get it through being a catcher in anal sex. (They try to keep that information quiet, so as to discourage unprotected sex, period, cause there are LOTS of other diseases they can get) In light of that, it is interesting to me that there was never more scrutiny of how Magic got AIDs. Since he wasn't a junkie, a hemophiliac or getting a transfusion, the strong likelihood is that he got it through unprotected anal sex. But that discussion seems radioactive when we are talking about one of the 5 greatest players of all time. I think the day a hero of ours currently playing comes out we'll all have to confront our deepest fears and cliches about what defines maleness.

I don't expect folks to agree, but believe that our views on this are rapidly evolving. I grew up in a time where homophobia was in the air we breathed, and I was a hater as well. The first time I ever heard anyone challenge an anti-gay comment was my father challenging me, when I was 14. The first thought that went through my head was "is my dad gay" cause I couldn't conceive that someone would defend gays unless they were one. I now recognize that he was defending the most basic civil right, the right to be with the person you love. I am a recovering homophobe. I won't lie and say I am comfortable when I see 2 guys kiss on the street (it still makes me a little nauseous), but I now recognize that it is as hardwired in them as it is for me to react when I see a hot woman go by in a short skirt...at some point, I think someone's sexuality will get a completely indifferent shrug, and I don't think it is any coincidence that the single biggest thing the fundamentalist religions (and I include folks like Pol Pot, Mao and Stalin as fundamentalists of Marx) try to control is sex, and the more intolerant and controlling they are, the more likely we are to see folks beheaded or persecuted, since much fundamentalist rage is repressed sexuality.

Sorry for the novel, just find it fascinating how sports continues to be a microcosm of our world. :wink:
To Live is A Value Judgment - Albert Camus
3 reasons for living: Jazz, Hoops and women

President Barack Hussein Obama - America chose Hope over Fear
ImageImage
User avatar
Hall of Famer
Posts: 18461
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2005 4:48 am
Location: Somewhere in this site...
Poster Credit: -4
PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 12:21 pm
coltraning wrote:All change is uncomfortable, TMC, and that is a common complaint, why do they have to let everyone know? I think that as long as being gay is thought of as a stigma and shameful, and people are persecuted for their sexuality, it will take great courage for these folks to come out. Flip the script. Imagine hanging with a bunch of guys who regularly referred to guys who slept with women in the most hateful and disparaging ways, and we couldn't say a damn thing cause we were afraid of being "outed" as p**sy lovers, etc...imagine having to keep completely quiet about the most intrinsic part of your nature, not talk about your wife or girlfriend, not have pics of your kids and wife on the wall, basically live a lie, in fear that you would be shunned or even attacked if you were identified as a chickf**ker. We would find that an utter misery and untenable. That is exactly what gays go through in many situations now. By the same token, when folks stop irrationally hating and fearing gays, it won't be any kind of issue. My wife is in the theater world, and sexuality is a complete non-issue there. People are free to be whatever they want and be with whoever they want and no one cares...by people's reactions it is still a huge issue in the sports world, since the stereotype is that macho guys are not gay. Ironic, since football probably has the largest # of closet cases of any sport, according to surveys. Anecdotally, friends of mine who have played football confirm this. The reality is, it is hard for bigots to hate people they personally know, whether black, Jewish, Gay, muslim, etc...since they have to deal with an individual rather than a stereotype.

Tangentially, I remember a lecture my wife and I attended on STDs when we were doing outreach to innercity youth. Apparently, it is extremely hard for a circumcised hetero man to get AIDS from a woman in any of the traditional methods of hetero vaginal and oral sex or even pitching in anal sex while very easy to get it through being a catcher in anal sex. (They try to keep that information quiet, so as to discourage unprotected sex, period, cause there are LOTS of other diseases they can get) In light of that, it is interesting to me that there was never more scrutiny of how Magic got AIDs. Since he wasn't a junkie, a hemophiliac or getting a transfusion, the strong likelihood is that he got it through unprotected anal sex. But that discussion seems radioactive when we are talking about one of the 5 greatest players of all time. I think the day a hero of ours currently playing comes out we'll all have to confront our deepest fears and cliches about what defines maleness.

I don't expect folks to agree, but believe that our views on this are rapidly evolving. I grew up in a time where homophobia was in the air we breathed, and I was a hater as well. The first time I ever heard anyone challenge an anti-gay comment was my father challenging me, when I was 14. The first thought that went through my head was "is my dad gay" cause I couldn't conceive that someone would defend gays unless they were one. I now recognize that he was defending the most basic civil right, the right to be with the person you love. I am a recovering homophobe. I won't lie and say I am comfortable when I see 2 guys kiss on the street (it still makes me a little nauseous), but I now recognize that it is as hardwired in them as it is for me to react when I see a hot woman go by in a short skirt...at some point, I think someone's sexuality will get a completely indifferent shrug, and I don't think it is any coincidence that the single biggest thing the fundamentalist religions (and I include folks like Pol Pot, Mao and Stalin as fundamentalists of Marx) try to control is sex, and the more intolerant and controlling they are, the more likely we are to see folks beheaded or persecuted, since much fundamentalist rage is repressed sexuality.

Sorry for the novel, just find it fascinating how sports continues to be a microcosm of our world. :wink:


:D :D :D

Nice post, Colt. But you don't have to persuade me on how difficult it may be for them to take that step. I'm well aware of that. That's not what I'm saying...

Guess that what I'm saying is that, if we really want to be equals (at least in our civil rights, and the sexual orientation is part of those civil rights as one possible way of discrimination) then we should really be equals no matter what. That means that, at this point, being gay should be exactly like if I say that I'm white... so what?

But seems like some of those guys use their sexual orientation to make money or to defend completely different issues (like Amaechi is doing here, using it to improve the sales of his book).

I agree that it's extremely difficult (and deserving of praise) to come out and say that someone is gay... but some of them just tell the people they care about, while others go to the media with the story... after they're done with whatever they were doing, once they are out of the business and need to get back into it. That's a scam. That creates a different reaction for those guys... and that's what creates, in a way, a disdain for certain guys that come out publicly.
User avatar
All Star
Posts: 3042
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2006 5:42 pm
Poster Credit: 0
PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 12:32 pm
TMC wrote:
coltraning wrote:All change is uncomfortable, TMC, and that is a common complaint, why do they have to let everyone know? I think that as long as being gay is thought of as a stigma and shameful, and people are persecuted for their sexuality, it will take great courage for these folks to come out. Flip the script. Imagine hanging with a bunch of guys who regularly referred to guys who slept with women in the most hateful and disparaging ways, and we couldn't say a damn thing cause we were afraid of being "outed" as p**sy lovers, etc...imagine having to keep completely quiet about the most intrinsic part of your nature, not talk about your wife or girlfriend, not have pics of your kids and wife on the wall, basically live a lie, in fear that you would be shunned or even attacked if you were identified as a chickf**ker. We would find that an utter misery and untenable. That is exactly what gays go through in many situations now. By the same token, when folks stop irrationally hating and fearing gays, it won't be any kind of issue. My wife is in the theater world, and sexuality is a complete non-issue there. People are free to be whatever they want and be with whoever they want and no one cares...by people's reactions it is still a huge issue in the sports world, since the stereotype is that macho guys are not gay. Ironic, since football probably has the largest # of closet cases of any sport, according to surveys. Anecdotally, friends of mine who have played football confirm this. The reality is, it is hard for bigots to hate people they personally know, whether black, Jewish, Gay, muslim, etc...since they have to deal with an individual rather than a stereotype.

Tangentially, I remember a lecture my wife and I attended on STDs when we were doing outreach to innercity youth. Apparently, it is extremely hard for a circumcised hetero man to get AIDS from a woman in any of the traditional methods of hetero vaginal and oral sex or even pitching in anal sex while very easy to get it through being a catcher in anal sex. (They try to keep that information quiet, so as to discourage unprotected sex, period, cause there are LOTS of other diseases they can get) In light of that, it is interesting to me that there was never more scrutiny of how Magic got AIDs. Since he wasn't a junkie, a hemophiliac or getting a transfusion, the strong likelihood is that he got it through unprotected anal sex. But that discussion seems radioactive when we are talking about one of the 5 greatest players of all time. I think the day a hero of ours currently playing comes out we'll all have to confront our deepest fears and cliches about what defines maleness.

I don't expect folks to agree, but believe that our views on this are rapidly evolving. I grew up in a time where homophobia was in the air we breathed, and I was a hater as well. The first time I ever heard anyone challenge an anti-gay comment was my father challenging me, when I was 14. The first thought that went through my head was "is my dad gay" cause I couldn't conceive that someone would defend gays unless they were one. I now recognize that he was defending the most basic civil right, the right to be with the person you love. I am a recovering homophobe. I won't lie and say I am comfortable when I see 2 guys kiss on the street (it still makes me a little nauseous), but I now recognize that it is as hardwired in them as it is for me to react when I see a hot woman go by in a short skirt...at some point, I think someone's sexuality will get a completely indifferent shrug, and I don't think it is any coincidence that the single biggest thing the fundamentalist religions (and I include folks like Pol Pot, Mao and Stalin as fundamentalists of Marx) try to control is sex, and the more intolerant and controlling they are, the more likely we are to see folks beheaded or persecuted, since much fundamentalist rage is repressed sexuality.

Sorry for the novel, just find it fascinating how sports continues to be a microcosm of our world. :wink:


:D :D :D

Nice post, Colt. But you don't have to persuade me on how difficult it may be for them to take that step. I'm well aware of that. That's not what I'm saying...

Guess that what I'm saying is that, if we really want to be equals (at least in our civil rights, and the sexual orientation is part of those civil rights as one possible way of discrimination) then we should really be equals no matter what. That means that, at this point, being gay should be exactly like if I say that I'm white... so what?


I hear you, and I hope we get to a place where the reaction is just "so what", but that is not at all the case today. it is not remotely the same for you and me to say "I'm straight". There are zero consequences for that professionally or personally, whereas for a pro team sport athlete to say "i'm gay" is professional suicide at this point. In our society, there is no group discriminated against and hated as gays. Again, I don't know what Amechi's motivation was, but based on the reaction, he would have been shunned and worse, if he had come out while playing.
To Live is A Value Judgment - Albert Camus
3 reasons for living: Jazz, Hoops and women

President Barack Hussein Obama - America chose Hope over Fear
ImageImage
PreviousNext

Return to News Articles

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron