TMC wrote:

#32 wrote:I think Nelson thinks the same way about Diogu. Ike Diogu felt so comfortable inside his post game, he really didn't have any more room to grow... so Nelson's pushing him to expand his game. Diogu said, in the interview, he's making major changes to his game to fit Nelson's system.

If Nelly can motivate Ike Diogu so that he becomes even more dangerous, than why not?

I think it's much more simple than that. Nellie doesn't like Ike's game. It's not the most suitable PF for his system, so he's not cutting him any slack.

Guess we'll see who's right during the season. If you're right, Ike's minutes should grow steadily. If I'm right, they'll stay roughly the same (which means he's going to play 20 minutes some games and 2 others).

That's what I'm guessing. I think Ike's playing time will begin to grow, slowly, throughout the year... with him ending the season as a 15-20 MPG role player (Nelson will give up Murphy before the season's over... and Diogu is next in line). I'm betting that Ike will probably become Biedrins' backup by the year's end.

I think it would be best for Ike to end up filling in for Biedrins from the bench, even though Biedrins will most likely get in foul trouble less often but i'd be happy knowing theres a consistant player who can get boards and also score down low or get fouled if he doesnt have a good shot

cabarkapa wrote:I think it would be best for Ike to end up filling in for Biedrins from the bench, even though Biedrins will most likely get in foul trouble less often but i'd be happy knowing theres a consistant player who can get boards and also score down low or get fouled if he doesnt have a good shot

I can't see Ike being remotely effective at center. I'd rather have him playing PF. If it has to be as a backup, so be it...

#32 wrote:

migya wrote:

#32 wrote:I take it as positive, because Nelson's going to Ike when the Warriors need a lift (proving that he understands Ike's value), but he's continually holding Ike back so that he works harder on his game.

The best way to make a player better is to play him NOW, especially if he has this value, and teach him from his performances each game.

Not necessarily. You need to treat every player different.

A guy like Andris Biedrins? He needed playing time to get better. But a guy like Adonal Foyle? He needed to ride some pine, which inspired him to work his ass off to get back into the rotation. Now, Foyle is in shape and delivers pretty well when called upon.

I think Nelson thinks the same way about Diogu. Ike Diogu felt so comfortable inside his post game, he really didn't have any more room to grow... so Nelson's pushing him to expand his game. Diogu said, in the interview, he's making major changes to his game to fit Nelson's system.

If Nelly can motivate Ike Diogu so that he becomes even more dangerous, than why not?

no. Diogu tries as hard as anybody on that team but Matt Barnes and always has. Diogu is better than murphy and has been for a year. Diogu isn't playing because Nellie doesn't like his game. which he has a history of doing

tHe_pEsTiLeNcE wrote:no. Diogu tries as hard as anybody on that team but Matt Barnes and always has. Diogu is better than murphy and has been for a year. Diogu isn't playing because Nellie doesn't like his game. which he has a history of doing

This is where the argument turns purely into opinion.

I have no doubt that Diogu is better than Murphy, but he's ineffective if the offense doesn't run through him.

He's played 113 minutes since coming back (11 games; roughly 10.3 MPG). He's scored 71 points in that time (which is about 6.5 PPG in 10.3 minutes). That's pretty impressive, at a first glance... but not when you take into account that he's taken 46 shot attempts in that time (which is about 4.2 shot attempts per game).

And did I mention that he throws away 1.3 turnovers a night (in only 10 minutes)?

Taking into account the possessions where he's fouled and goes to the line (he averages about 3 free throws a game), along with the times he throws the ball away, the numbers clearly show that the offense is purely ran through Ike Diogu when he's on the floor. 6 offensive attempts (4 shot attempts, the extra possession that results in free throws, and the turnover possession) in 10 minutes.

Nelson understands that Diogu is only effective when he's getting the ball a lot. He scores and does it at a high percentage, which is good, for short term results. But Diogu doesn't play any defense (and, regardless of how much the opposition scores, the Warriors are a sound defensive team this year, shown by their team BPG and SPG numbers). Ike also doesn't set any screens (the way Biedrins, Murphy, and Foyle do) because he's too concerned setting up positioning for himself.

And, to end this tale of the rawness of Ike Diogu, he's still a hacker (committing 1.6 PF's in only 10 minutes; which would equal 4.9 PF's in a 30 minute showing).

Can everybody honestly not see how green the kid is? Let the guy develop a bit more and he'll be a force. Let Don Nelson work. Falling back on an imaginary grudge that Don Nelson holds -over a guy he's barely known for 3 months- is not logical.

The numbers speak for themselves. In order for Ike to be successful, he needs a horde of possessions, 4 other competent defenders who can cover his ass, and a referee who holds his whistle. More often than not, the Warriors can't supply him with this. So why don't we simply wait for him to develop his game?

Ike Diogu should conform to the Warriors' needs; not the other way around.

#32 wrote:Can everybody honestly not see how green the kid is? Let the guy develop a bit more and he'll be a force.

Yeah, we all see that. It's just that development comes from playing. That's why POB is in the NBDL (that... or he sucks more than I even I thought).

I'm not saying that Ike should start (will do with time, but not now), but he should get between 15 and 20 minutes per game at least. I mean, it's not like we have much better options...

Well, lately, Ike Diogu's getting about 10 minutes a night. But he's got a HUGE problem that doesn't take playing time to solve: knowing the playbook!

The guy STILL doesn't know where he's supposed to be! Even when he's in, he looks dazed and confused.

TMC wrote:

#32 wrote:Can everybody honestly not see how green the kid is? Let the guy develop a bit more and he'll be a force.

Yeah, we all see that. It's just that development comes from playing. That's why POB is in the NBDL (that... or he sucks more than I even I thought).

I'm not saying that Ike should start (will do with time, but not now), but he should get between 15 and 20 minutes per game at least. I mean, it's not like we have much better options...

Diogu definately needs to play and he should be the starting PF because he is the best the team has at that position