#32 wrote:The respect you speak of is gained through fear. When people are afraid of their superiors, they become unstable.

Respect is something that is not always given unless made aware of it! Children need to be shown that they need to respect and at times they need to be shown it strongly! Now being a father, I realise that a child needs to be held accountable from the start and that a child wants to be independent but is not capable of being so yet. When a child outright disrespects their parents by disregarding what they are told or through harsh actions and attitudem they need to be shown that that is not acceptable! Depending on the situation, a parent, after trying to explain verbally with logical reasoning and that not working, is required to make things known right there in that moment! The child may or may not be afraid initially but the parent must again explain the reasoning for their reaction! Parents are accountable for alot of their children's attitudes and discipline, done right, is essential for a child developing a good attitude and respect for others.

#32 wrote:Children who straighten up because they're punished have been seen in studies to go right back to their bad behavior once the parental figure is out of sight. Furthermore, punishment doesn't lead the victim to better understand the virtue he is meant to learn; it leads him to despise the punisher. Modern psychologists all agree that the method of punishment is ineffective and needs to change.

It is not punishment! It is being held accountable for their attitude and actions! You have to stop them right there and make it known that what they just said or did is not acceptable!

I have read journals from scientists and psychologists that state that spanking, done in the right situations and not just for everything, is ESSENTIAL for the proper development of a child because it shows then that there is a consequence for their behaviour and that people do not accept disrespect from others.

I now respect my parents more than ever and understand why, in certain situations, I was hit and I see that some children are in need of being stopped and shown, with hitting because they do not listen to anything said to them, that their disrespect is not accepted! The world is worse now than it ever was and it is partly due to lack of discipline from parents!

Consequence and Reaction are nature! For every action there is a proper reaction that keeps things honest and evolving! Making someone accountable for a disrespectful act has always been and will always be right and just!

#32 wrote:Case in point, if fans boo Dunleavy, it's a sign of disrespect. Jason Richardson was even quoted saying he knows it hurts Mike Dunleavy. And, as stated above, hurting someone for screwing up never creates a positive result.

Letting someone that has shown lack of motivation at times remain unaccountable is not going to change anything! Dunleavy has to know that it is expected that he does better and that the fans are paying him and that they want better. Boing is harsh but sometimes harsh reactions are needed to get someone to respect your view

I have to agree with migya here. A good spanking is needed in certain situations. If talking and explaining things you don't get results, other measures need to be taken.

It may look like punishment, but it's not. It's a way of teaching what's good and wrong, what can be done what's not allowed.

Of course, there has to be limits. If not, it becomes a crime... but there's a certain amount of (I won't call it violence, 'cos it's not) "pain" that people have to endure to develop.

Modern psychology disagrees.

Although it admits that punishment is minimally effective if done immediately after the crime. This means that slapping your child on the hand JUST as he grabs a cookie might work... but having him wait in his room until his father gets home to spank him teaches him nothing.

Psychologists mostly agree: punishment leads the victim to hate the punisher.

You can't dismiss it as "being held accountable", because you can hold somebody accountable for something without punishment. Booing Dunleavy for missing a free throw is a form of punishment, no matter how you slice it.

Then puts xtra pressure on him to hit the second ft. Booing Dunleavy for missing the first of two free throws is stupid if you are a "Warrior fan", it's counterproductive and detreMENTAL.

The games that I have been to this year when the opposing player is at the line I Boo or say Brick LOUD right before they shoot there ft and I feel like I make them miss when they miss, especially because usually there's only a few other fans at the Arena that make noise while the opponent shoots the ft so I am definitely heard, same thing for DEFENSE chant's, If so called "Warrior Fan's" Booed the opponent instead of Dunleavy and made more NOISE for the DEFENSE than for PIZZA'S it would be more productive.

#32 wrote:Modern psychology disagrees.

Although it admits that punishment is minimally effective if done immediately after the crime. This means that slapping your child on the hand JUST as he grabs a cookie might work... but having him wait in his room until his father gets home to spank him teaches him nothing.

Psychologists mostly agree: punishment leads the victim to hate the punisher.

You can't dismiss it as "being held accountable", because you can hold somebody accountable for something without punishment. Booing Dunleavy for missing a free throw is a form of punishment, no matter how you slice it.

I am with 32 on everything except Dung - he is not a child, but a professional athlete, and booing comes with the territory, along with oral sex from the warriors girls and megabucks. Hitting a child begets violence, and you are right that study after study overwhelmingly shows that children raised violently become violent.

I am, by no means, a Mike Dunleavy fan. But I think that booing is not only useless; it's counter-productive, as well.

So, I guess, the issue becomes that of whats proper sporting manners... which we've all debated many times.

coltraning wrote:Hitting a child begets violence, and you are right that study after study overwhelmingly shows that children raised violently become violent.

We're not saying that a child has to be raised in a violent enviroment, but that sometimes (when nothing else works), a slight spank is the only way to go. There's a difference between that and violent behavior towards the child (although society doesn't want to acknowledge that gap).

TMC wrote:

coltraning wrote:Hitting a child begets violence, and you are right that study after study overwhelmingly shows that children raised violently become violent.

We're not saying that a child has to be raised in a violent enviroment, but that sometimes (when nothing else works), a slight spank is the only way to go. There's a difference between that and violent behavior towards the child (although society doesn't want to acknowledge that gap).

I gotta agree with Broe here. Very few people would disagree that Dun has underperformed and been overpaid but I think very few would think that booing him will make him perform better. We're stuck with him, it's one of the least tradeable contracts in the league and we know he's capable of decent games. Booing him won't make that happen. I haven't even heard any of the booers argue that. They only argue that it's their right, which it is, I agree, but it's only helping the other team.

#32 wrote:Modern psychology disagrees.

Although it admits that punishment is minimally effective if done immediately after the crime. This means that slapping your child on the hand JUST as he grabs a cookie might work... but having him wait in his room until his father gets home to spank him teaches him nothing.

It is holding the child accountable and showing that the parent is not happy with what was done! Simple as that, respect the parent's wishes especially when there is a good explanation of why what was done was wrong!

It is consequence and it leads to recognition and development of the individual

coltraning wrote:Hitting a child begets violence, and you are right that study after study overwhelmingly shows that children raised violently become violent.

Hitting children as a response to a bad act and bad attitude begets realisation, respect and development to being a more responsible and mature human being

It's funny how we're talking about this in a Dunleavy thread.

John Patrick wrote:It's funny how we're talking about this in a Dunleavy thread.

Funny... but not surprising. After all, it's a thread about spoiled childs.

All I ment is that if you are a Warrior Fan and bother going to the game, WHY boo your team, no matter what player? Fine if you are not a Warrior fan
and boo Dun, Maybe you like the Raptors for some odd reason and are booing Dun. But I guarentee because everyone thinks Dun hasnt lived up to his draft pick potental (as I do), he get booed buy Warrior Fans.
Go Figure...
ROOT FOR THE WARRIORS OR DONT GO.

cladden wrote:Very few people would disagree that Dun has underperformed and been overpaid but I think very few would think that booing him will make him perform better. We're stuck with him, it's one of the least tradeable contracts in the league and we know he's capable of decent games. Booing him won't make that happen. I haven't even heard any of the booers argue that. They only argue that it's their right, which it is, I agree, but it's only helping the other team.

Beautifully stated, cladden!

I can't imagine anybody disagreeing with this. Love that last sentence; you drive the point home extremely well.

John Patrick wrote:It's funny how we're talking about this in a Dunleavy thread.

dunnyboy obviously never got smacked enough!

Sure there's many that would volunteer to dish out some discipline to the nerd