Game Thread: Warriors @ Utah Jazz 2006-04-17

Talk about the upcoming Warriors game here

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 8:47 pm
in a couple of years i could see monta from into a tony parker kind of player, but talller and more athletic. monta has the speed of tony parker. i like this kid alot. career high 27 was impressive. Ike was a "beast!" Biedrins played well, so did d-fish. i like the young players we have. we have a real bright future w/ these young guys.
Warriors are BAAAALLLLIINN!

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 8:48 pm
I'm getting so tired of explaining the grown-up world to people who don't get it. THIS IS NOT A PICK-UP GAME!!! The best players don't necessarily get the most minutes. Why can't you understand that the players who make the most MONEY get the most minutes? You hope that the most talented players are the one's that get signed to the biggest contracts but unfortunately that is not always the case. That is why the Collective Bargaining Agreement is a chess-game unto itself. Monty has nothing to do with it. Mullin signed some big contracts and then drafted better talent thereby putting himself into a bit of a quandry. That's not negative on Mullin, hindsight is 20/20.

Do you understand the dangers and ramifications of playing rookies and youngsters the bulk of the minutes while you're paying the bench-warming veterans salary cap busting contracts? Let me give you a hint: GILBERT ARENAS!!! The only thing that would make me lose interest in the Warriors is if Monta, Ike and Biedrins turn into Arenas situations.

The young players have proven they deserve the bulk of the minutes and so it is up to Mullin to find those minutes, NOT MONTY. Monty would LOVE to give those kids all the minutes starting the first game next season, but if we have to continue to pay Murphy, Foyle, Fisher and to some extent Baron's contracts it is going to be trouble. We don't need to get rid of all those contracts at once, but one-by-one they have to go as our youngsters rookie contracts end.

Your frustration at the rookies lack of playing time is understood, but it has less to do with Monty and much more to do with the millions that goes to Murphy, Foyle and Fisher. If everything goes the way it should: Murphy will be gone, Ike will get all of his minutes, Biedrins will get all of Foyle's minutes (or as many he can take and stay out of foul trouble), and the reserve front-court minutes will be split between Zarko, Foyle and hopefully Taft.

I like our chances with that front-court rotation and then we'll go to the playoffs and the team will be happy and so will Mullin and Monty and hopefully you too #32 and then you won't have any reason to hate Monty. Doesn't that sound nice, playoffs and all? So buck-up kid, turn that frown upside down and have a little optimism. There is reason to, I swear, even with Monty. And go read some FAQs on the CBA.
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 9:02 pm
you're talking about playing minutes, when real fans are commenting on monty's coaching ability. a monkey and point at a player and its a universal signal to get into the game. we dont care about that (at least i dont). what i care about is monty's failure to prepare the first and second unit to play.

i'm equally tired of explaning how blatantly obvious it is that monty just doesnt try. he just stands there and hopes the natural course of events will equal a warriors victory.

are you related to him or something? there is optimism and then there is thinkingwarrior's obsession with a toupee wearing, aging man....

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 9:17 pm
drfrank wrote:i'm equally tired of explaning how blatantly obvious it is that monty just doesnt try. he just stands there and hopes the natural course of events will equal a warriors victory.

You're just wrong, drfrank. I mean, I wish there was a more polite way to say it, but look you're just dead wrong. Monty is a good coach, he know how to teach players to be better basketball players. He knows how to diagram plays, he knows how to put in rotations that keep the other team off balance. He knows how to get the most out of his players (hasn't figured it out with Baron yet, but Baron's a real hard-ass). This is so obvious to me and that is why I get so frustrated by all the Monty bashing. People on this forum act like all the rookies good play is evidence that Monty's a bad coach. I just don't understand it. Clearly you and others on this list are sure that he is a bad coach while to me he is obviously a good coach. He needs to learn how to deal with older players better but he is such a good fit for the kiddies. I love watching Monta and Bynum listen to him, they just stand their absorbing the wisdom. In the end that is what is in short supply here on this forum: wisdom.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 9:22 pm
good point, check it out. thats why these other bums are gonna get traded who dont listen and respect him. thats whats great about the youngers, they will respect him and grow into monte's mold.
"Losing is inevitably close to winning," Guber said. "They're inches apart. Drama. If you have drama, you've got a ticket to sell." "They're not real fans," Lacob said. "They don't have season tickets."
PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 10:57 pm
i agree with you, he's a good x's and o's guy. but why dont the players actually run plays? why do we jack up so many 3's? why are players not benched for repeating repeated mistakes? why is it that our most successful plays are inbounding the ball? how come we dont set good picks? how come good picks are set against us? how come our defenders go under picks when guarding shooters? how come we double team a good passer leaving an open shot? how come we bite on pump fakes? how comes so many fouls are called against us? how come so few fouls are called against our opponents? how come we dont have a home court advantage? how come we shoot the ball poorly? how come we seem disorganized at the most important junctures in the games? how come we cant close out games?

...i can go on but my fingers are cramping up
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 11:23 pm
yeah -to follow up on the disease's point. If you are 9 and 23 in games decided in the last 2 minutes, when practically every 2nd play is followed by a timeout, it seems pretty obvious you need to look at how coaching decisions impacted that woeful record in crunch time. Tim Kawakami of the San Jose Merc believes Montgomery costs the Ws 3-4 games a year.Of course, Fisher's foul was utterly inexplicable, though the loss gives Ws 2 bumps up in the lottery - maybe not so inexplicable? Where's Jim Garrison when you need him?
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 10:21 am
drfrank wrote:i agree with you, he's a good x's and o's guy. but why dont the players actually run plays? why do we jack up so many 3's? why are players not benched for repeating repeated mistakes? why is it that our most successful plays are inbounding the ball? how come we dont set good picks? how come good picks are set against us? how come our defenders go under picks when guarding shooters? how come we double team a good passer leaving an open shot? how come we bite on pump fakes? how comes so many fouls are called against us? how come so few fouls are called against our opponents? how come we dont have a home court advantage? how come we shoot the ball poorly? how come we seem disorganized at the most important junctures in the games? how come we cant close out games?

...i can go on but my fingers are cramping up

=D> Thank you!

Coaching has so much more to it than simply drawing up a play on a chalkboard! These guys don't respect Montgomery, they don't like him, they don't fear him, and they don't take him seriously. And when you're a coach, you need to command that sort of compliance from your team.

Take, for example, if thinkingwarriors was our general during the war and told me & drfrank to flank the rightside. Do you think that we have a respect for what you're plan of action is? Do you think we agree with your logic? Do you think that we believe your plan will succeed (after watching you cause the death of migya and TMC through your horrible planning all season)? Hell no! We've seen how you talk about Montgomery on this message board! We don't agree with anything you say! So, in the end, we're probably gonna go off and flank the left or charge the post or something. The last thing human beings want to do is follow the orders of somebody they take for a dimwit.

Likewise, when Montgomery tells the Warriors, "Okay, guys, good play last night. Ike, I know you scored over 20 points and Troy went 2-for-13, but we're gonna give him another shot tonight."... what the hell do you think goes through their mind? Especially after hearing that EXACT same thing 10, 15 times? They lose respect for him and, therefore, don't follow his orders.

Montgomery should be fired.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 11:03 am
#32 wrote:
drfrank wrote:jerry sloan is amazing.
the better coach won tonight.
but it doesnt take a lot to beat an under-coached mike montgomery team.

thinkingwarriors, you're the idiot.

Amen.


Ppl think Jerry was blessed with Malone, Horny and Stockton so therefore he should have a good record every year. Now, he doen't have anybody close to their talent and status in the past 4 or 5 years and he has still lead the jazz to playoff contention or into the playoffs one year. That gets my props. Would monty be able to take the group that Jerry has right now and take them to playoff contention? I really doubt it. Would Jerry be able to take the group we have right now to the playoffs? I have no doubt and maybe further.

Tim
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 6:21 pm
The common thread here and the common disagreement is that I think the Warriors biggest problems are their personnel. Many of you think the biggest problem is the coaching.

I think it doesn't matter how good or bad of a coach Monty is because the personnel, particularly the front court wasn't good enough to either execute any sort of interior offense or defense, hence why we shot so many outside shots and why our interior defense was so porous. I don't think any of us disagree with that statement.

What we aren't seeing eye-to-eye on is why they better quality youngsters got so few minutes until later in the season. For one, I think it was a process for the youngsters to get to where they ended up by the final games. But more importantly are all the points I made about guaranteed money and the CBA.

#32 and drfrank I ask you to comment on the economic realities of the CBA and how they impact what happens on the court. Is there a worse front-court making more money in the NBA than our front-court? What are the long term ramifications of guaranteed money going to Murphy and Foyle? In short, I believe it should be clear that all of your valid beefs about playing time shouldn't rest on Monty's shoulders.

As for the respect factor, I think it is true that certain veteran players don't respect Monty. Players like Baron and Murphy in particular. But other players like Fisher, Monta, Bynum, Biedrins and Diogu work well with him and have done well under him. To discount the good play of certain players, particularly young players as having nothing to do with the head coach is inexplicable to me.

Sure, Murphy doesn't box out well and is the definition of a matador defender and Baron doesn't move his feet to stay in front of his man or close out on shooters. They clearly don't listen to Monty or respect him.

But the youngsters do ALL of the hustle plays. They clearly have fun and they do all the things drfrank said far less now than earlier this season, in short they've improved. The fact they still do some of those things isn't because Monty is a bad coach it is because they are still young. To blame their leaving picks early, going on the wrong side of screens confusion during pressure situations, too many fouls, etc. on Monty is false. All their mistakes are mistakes of aggression or inexperience. I can't wait to see the same youngsters getting LOTS more minutes next season and see how much they will have improved with an offseason with Monty teaching them.
PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 7:14 pm
i can see you complaining about the personnel next season, saying, "we're still young, its only the 2nd year for these guys." in this league, that is not a valid excuse. monty was giving an all-star point guard to go with an already talented and athletic team. what happened? nothing happened. there was ZERO improvement. and dont give me this bullshit about us finding out about monta ellis' skills. we would of found this out while winning basketball games.

do you know for sure that monty has his hands tied as far as minute distribution? i personally havent seen this confirmed. monty panics and tries to patch up a sinking ship. sometimes, he doesnt bother. thats why we score like 8 points in an entire quarter. and what do you want me to say about the "economic realities of the CBA"??? how does that have anything to do with monty being over his head. you admit that these young players make mistakes. obviously its hard for rookies to adjust. but why dont mistakes get pointed out? do these guys even watch film? the game against the rockets, it seemed like they didnt know that yao is a 7'6" chinese dude that likes to score inside. oh, and as far as murphy not respecting monty. why doesnt monty do something about this? why not get murphy some help? oooh thats right, monty is over his head.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 8:12 pm
drfrank, in the end we just see this past season as two different things. I was encouraged, you and #32 were discouraged. Oh well, nothing more to say. Let's move on.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2006 11:58 pm
I am disappointed (Had High Expectations) but encouraged :!: With J Rich emerging into a leader/Star in this league , 2 diamond draft picks (Ike & Monta), Bedrins continual development , With One of the top point guard's in the league when healthy now being challenged to emerge into his potential and elevate his Game, And Mullin accepting the blame but vowing to the commitment of turning this Franchise into a Winner By Any means necessary :!: The right move this Off season will catapult this TEAM out of the shadows of the past and Create A New Bright Present / Future :!: Which I feel is Mullin & the Warriors Destiny.... Warriors 07 Bitches :mrgreen:
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 2:47 am
O.G. broe wrote:I am disappointed (Had High Expectations) but encouraged :!: With J Rich emerging into a leader/Star in this league , 2 diamond draft picks (Ike & Monta), Bedrins continual development , With One of the top point guard's in the league when healthy now being challenged to emerge into his potential and elevate his Game, And Mullin accepting the blame but vowing to the commitment of turning this Franchise into a Winner By Any means necessary :!: The right move this Off season will catapult this TEAM out of the shadows of the past and Create A New Bright Present / Future :!: Which I feel is Mullin & the Warriors Destiny.... Warriors 07 Bitches :mrgreen:


Feels weird, but I agree with broe. If anything, this season has shown the roster flaws, and a lot of things went the wrong way. We have to get a realiable starting sf (a center would be nice, too, until Biedrins keeps developing, but most teams don't really have a true center anymore), and a good coach, and we're in pretty good shape for next season.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2006 10:40 am
how can ANYONE be encouraged???? ANYONE...

12 years and counting .... and yet our fan support and been the leagues top 10. Quite frankly seeing young stars improve JUST ISNT GOOD ENOUGH anymore. I'm insulted to hear that we are building and our future is looking better... AH we've been building for the last 12 years.

Who do i Blame, well not the FANS, so its the players, and the coaching and the damn organization.

They should lower the price of the tickets every year until they make the playoffs, PERIOD. This product is pathetic, losing games in the last 4 mintues is unbearable.

Anyone who cares about the Warriors should NOT be encourage with the production, performance, and the result. Yes, J Rich improved alot AGAIN, but if he keeps bricking FREE THROWS at the end of GAME, hell, everyone bricking free throws at end of games... You can't win... Bottom line is that we are AGAIN IN THE LOTTERY...
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