matt cain, ace pitcher #2

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2009 5:33 am
ah yes, this season has reminded me of the matt cain of old (basically his first 2 mlb seasons)...the guy used to throw near no-hitters every few games, and seemed on path to become our superstar pitcher before timmy came up and took the spotlight

when he's on, hes just as crazy as timmy, and even harder to hit...this season is a breakthrough for him b/c it looks like the extra run support has helped him gain a little mojo and mental boost

im curious though, can anyone explain how he gets so little strikeouts, when his repertoire is of the dominating/strikeout mold?

p.s. anyone else feel insecure concerning timmy's spot on the top of the pitching ranks...basically every team has its own surefire prospect pitcher, and alot of them are already tearing up the mlb...guys like gallardo, billingsey, felix hernandez, greinke, weaver, cueto, kershaw...even verlander is around timmy's age...i could go on and on...i feel insecure that on any given year, any one of them could take timmy's title of best young pitcher...thats the thing with baseball, too many gem's out there that you really have to be the best of the best to distinguish urself year in year out...truth of the matter is, timmy hasnt been any better than most those guys this year

i dont keep track of minor leagues (baseball isnt my forte)...can anybody fill me in on how great these giant prospects such as bumgarner, alderson, posey, villona supposedly are? and who's the a's top prospects these days? which of their young pitchers in the current rotation were really good in the minors and have a legit chance at becoming top notch pitchers? sean gallagher was supposed to be the prize in that trade last year...what happened to him? pablo sandoval has been on a hitting tear...where did this dude come from, and whats his potential (just a good hitter for average, or has slugger potential as well)?...thanks for fillin' me in
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2009 7:27 am
TruE SExy wrote:ah yes, this season has reminded me of the matt cain of old (basically his first 2 mlb seasons)...the guy used to throw near no-hitters every few games, and seemed on path to become our superstar pitcher before timmy came up and took the spotlight

when he's on, hes just as crazy as timmy, and even harder to hit...this season is a breakthrough for him b/c it looks like the extra run support has helped him gain a little mojo and mental boost

im curious though, can anyone explain how he gets so little strikeouts, when his repertoire is of the dominating/strikeout mold?

p.s. anyone else feel insecure concerning timmy's spot on the top of the pitching ranks...basically every team has its own surefire prospect pitcher, and alot of them are already tearing up the mlb...guys like gallardo, billingsey, felix hernandez, greinke, weaver, cueto, kershaw...even verlander is around timmy's age...i could go on and on...i feel insecure that on any given year, any one of them could take timmy's title of best young pitcher...thats the thing with baseball, too many gem's out there that you really have to be the best of the best to distinguish urself year in year out...truth of the matter is, timmy hasnt been any better than most those guys this year

i dont keep track of minor leagues (baseball isnt my forte)...can anybody fill me in on how great these giant prospects such as bumgarner, alderson, posey, villona supposedly are? and who's the a's top prospects these days? which of their young pitchers in the current rotation were really good in the minors and have a legit chance at becoming top notch pitchers? sean gallagher was supposed to be the prize in that trade last year...what happened to him? pablo sandoval has been on a hitting tear...where did this dude come from, and whats his potential (just a good hitter for average, or has slugger potential as well)?...thanks for fillin' me in


Great post, and good questions.. First of all, when Cain came up he would routinely hit 98 on the gun. He was strictly power, and that's where a lot of the strikeouts came from. Now you'll see him start out around 92-93 and build up to toward the end of the game he's hitting 95-96. He's also throwing the curve for first pitch strikes which keeps hitters from sitting on the first pitch fastball. He'll give up the occasional solo home run but if you notice, when runners are on he gets tough. he gets the big strikeouts when he needs them, but he's also pitching to the defense better.

As for Timmy, all i care about is him being successful for this team and not where he ranks in the majors. There are always going to be good young pitchers, he just needs to remain consistent so when this team builds a serious offense, they'll be a perennial playoff team.

The prospects:
Bumgarner is the jewel pitching prospect, another power guy. He's blazing through the minors. He's a true fast track guy. He's in the Cain and Lincecum mold. Alderson I believe is more of a control guy but with good stuff as well. He's been consistent at every level. Posey is leading the SJ GIANTS in home runs and is on the fast track but the organization is being patient with him. He'll probably get a sniff of the big leagues later this year. Villalona is a longer term project but people are really impressed with his power at 18 years old.

There are also some other prospects that could be good players. Conor Gillespie, Nick Noonan, Brandon Crawford and a couple others. THey also drafted that pitcher that Sabean compares to Matt Cain which could be another nice ace in the hole.

And last but not least, Pablo Sandoval. Not many of us new a whole lot about sandoval when he came up. The whole system was so bare that nobody new who the real prospects were or if there were any. Pablo is actually starting to find his power stroke, because he's being a bit more selective. (not a whole lot, he's still Pablo) What makes him so good is his ability to hit bad pitches. If you watched yesterdays game it was a good example. His double down the right field line, he's out in front, the pitch is on the outer edge of the plate and he still pulls it down the line for a double. He's been great.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2009 12:06 pm
great, thanks for the run through rob

to tell the truth, i'd be hugely dissapointed if timmy doesnt come up with another 1-2 cy youngs before his career's done...winning a cy young last year at such an early age set the basis for a possible hall of fame career, so im expecting the most out of him and hopefully he can have a poor man's pedro's career

as for cain, i want to see him start racking up those K's sometime down the line, like verlander is doing now...its good that hes pitching smart and things are working out so far this year, but to consistently be the devastating pitcher that he can be, he'll eventually need to power it up

pablo's been amazing, but i'll bet hes on steroids lol

bumgarner...im a believer now...add me to the bandwagon
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2009 12:20 pm
TruE SExy wrote:great, thanks for the run through rob

to tell the truth, i'd be hugely dissapointed if timmy doesnt come up with another 1-2 cy youngs before his career's done...winning a cy young last year at such an early age set the basis for a possible hall of fame career, so im expecting the most out of him and hopefully he can have a poor man's pedro's career

as for cain, i want to see him start racking up those K's sometime down the line, like verlander is doing now...its good that hes pitching smart and things are working out so far this year, but to consistently be the devastating pitcher that he can be, he'll eventually need to power it up

pablo's been amazing, but i'll bet hes on steroids lol

bumgarner...im a believer now...add me to the bandwagon


Well i don't think timmy has to settle for a poor mans anything. He's that good, and he's so competitive. He doesn't seem satisfied at all. Him and Cain both have that fire in them that doesn't want them to lose. Cain needs to keep pitching smart, the more economical the better. With this bullcrap era of pitch counts, it's the only way to complete games these days.

I doubt Pablo is juiced, but it has come to the point that you suspect everybody you see. I would be pretty upset if he was. He's such a good hitter though and has done it every single year he's played. Minors or the big leagues. I think he has power to hit home runs but his pitch selection doesn't allow him to always get pitches he can drive out of the park. The guy could win the batting title though and that's crazy.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2009 1:50 pm
All I care for is that we have both Lincecum and Cain in a Giants uni for many, many years to come. These guys are the future of the Giants rotation. And then you have Bumgarner coming up sometime in the near future. The pen has been way better than it has the past couple years. The pitching is just fine.

The hitting, of course, needs work. Pablo is our best hitter. Rowand has actually came along pretty nicely this season so far compared to last season. And Molina is there every now and then. But everyone else has struggled. If guys like Schierholtz, Sandoval, and even Posey keep maturing... we'll have three solid hitters in the near future. All we need to do after that is add a hitter with pop and we'll be set.
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2009 3:47 pm
poor man's pedro sounds worse than it is...put it this way, johan santana in his prime was a poor man's pedro...if timmy could continue to pitch like that, he'd be at the very least a top 3 pitcher of his generation (depending on how guys like strasburg pan out)
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2009 3:56 pm
TruE SExy wrote:poor man's pedro sounds worse than it is...put it this way, johan santana in his prime was a poor man's pedro...if timmy could continue to pitch like that, he'd be at the very least a top 3 pitcher of his generation (depending on how guys like strasburg pan out)


Dont forget about the good young arms on the other side of the Bay!

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2009 4:39 pm
which ones specifically? havent been following baseball closely except for my favorite players
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2009 4:56 pm
TruE SExy wrote:which ones specifically? havent been following baseball closely except for my favorite players


A's seem to always bring up some quality arms. Check out Vin Mazzaro who i think is gonna face timmy again this series. There are two more that i think are escaping me. They don't have Cain and Lincecum but they have quality. Especially vinny.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2009 10:00 pm
I'm so glad Cain's doing well this year. I remember during the offseason there were rumors of a trade with Cain which I was really against. Always knew he would be good but didnt think he'd be having this kind of season.

As for Timmy, he'll be just fine. After a season like last year, it's easy to be let down with anything but greatness but he's doing well and I'm glad he's not being subjected to any sophmore jinx or succumbing to the pressure of being a cy young pitcher.

Our pitching is great and will only get better with the young arms coming up. I'm salivating at the thought of having a possible rotation of Timmy, Cain, Madbum, Alderson, and Zito (have to throw him in there because of the contract but if he can keep this season's form, that wouldn't be a bad 5th starter). We finally have a decent bullpen and with Valdez/Romo/Wilson working the 7th/8th/9th respectively, plus Affeldt as a get your ass out of a jam specialist, we finally have guys who are dependable game closers.

The offense is still anemic but recently have woken up a bit. Ishikawa has found a bit of a stroke in recent games and Sandovals just a beast who is only getting better. All in all i like where this team is headed . . . I just hope Sabean doesn't pull one of his bone-headed trades where we lose young guys for old rent-a-players.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 9:20 am
RobDIKUM wrote:
TruE SExy wrote:which ones specifically? havent been following baseball closely except for my favorite players


A's seem to always bring up some quality arms. Check out Vin Mazzaro who i think is gonna face timmy again this series. There are two more that i think are escaping me. They don't have Cain and Lincecum but they have quality. Especially vinny.


I would say Vin Mazarro will eventually be the #2 guy behind Trevor Cahill. He pitched great against the Giants last night. Cahill is kind of in the Matt Cain boat from the past couple seasons. He has 7 straight outings going atleast 6 innings and allowing less than 3 runs and only has a couple wins to show for it. None of these guys right now are on par with Lincecum, but right now....I dont think anybody is.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 9:41 am
"Always" Next wrote:
RobDIKUM wrote:
TruE SExy wrote:which ones specifically? havent been following baseball closely except for my favorite players


A's seem to always bring up some quality arms. Check out Vin Mazzaro who i think is gonna face timmy again this series. There are two more that i think are escaping me. They don't have Cain and Lincecum but they have quality. Especially vinny.


I would say Vin Mazarro will eventually be the #2 guy behind Trevor Cahill. He pitched great against the Giants last night. Cahill is kind of in the Matt Cain boat from the past couple seasons. He has 7 straight outings going atleast 6 innings and allowing less than 3 runs and only has a couple wins to show for it. None of these guys right now are on par with Lincecum, but right now....I dont think anybody is.


Cahill looks pretty good, but if Mazarro keeps this trend going for a long time he could be better. Usually people taper off over time and don't continue the hot streak, but if Vin is as good as he looked he could be better than Cahill I think. By the way, Jonathon Sanchez sucks ass, get him out of the rotation.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 9:47 am
RobDIKUM wrote:
"Always" Next wrote:
RobDIKUM wrote:
TruE SExy wrote:which ones specifically? havent been following baseball closely except for my favorite players


A's seem to always bring up some quality arms. Check out Vin Mazzaro who i think is gonna face timmy again this series. There are two more that i think are escaping me. They don't have Cain and Lincecum but they have quality. Especially vinny.


I would say Vin Mazarro will eventually be the #2 guy behind Trevor Cahill. He pitched great against the Giants last night. Cahill is kind of in the Matt Cain boat from the past couple seasons. He has 7 straight outings going atleast 6 innings and allowing less than 3 runs and only has a couple wins to show for it. None of these guys right now are on par with Lincecum, but right now....I dont think anybody is.


Cahill looks pretty good, but if Mazarro keeps this trend going for a long time he could be better. Usually people taper off over time and don't continue the hot streak, but if Vin is as good as he looked he could be better than Cahill I think. By the way, Jonathon Sanchez sucks ass, get him out of the rotation.


If Mazarro is better, the A's are going to have a very strong pitching staff in the near future. Cahill is NASTY! Did you watch the game last night? He has a dirty sinker ball that he can use to get K's as well as ground balls. AFter seeing how this season has played out, as excited as I was about getting Holliday, I think maybe more could have been done with Huston Street and Carlos Gonzales, but the A's and Giants look to both have a good future on the way.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 10:46 am
"Always" Next wrote:
RobDIKUM wrote:
"Always" Next wrote:
RobDIKUM wrote:
TruE SExy wrote:which ones specifically? havent been following baseball closely except for my favorite players


A's seem to always bring up some quality arms. Check out Vin Mazzaro who i think is gonna face timmy again this series. There are two more that i think are escaping me. They don't have Cain and Lincecum but they have quality. Especially vinny.


I would say Vin Mazarro will eventually be the #2 guy behind Trevor Cahill. He pitched great against the Giants last night. Cahill is kind of in the Matt Cain boat from the past couple seasons. He has 7 straight outings going atleast 6 innings and allowing less than 3 runs and only has a couple wins to show for it. None of these guys right now are on par with Lincecum, but right now....I dont think anybody is.


Cahill looks pretty good, but if Mazarro keeps this trend going for a long time he could be better. Usually people taper off over time and don't continue the hot streak, but if Vin is as good as he looked he could be better than Cahill I think. By the way, Jonathon Sanchez sucks ass, get him out of the rotation.


If Mazarro is better, the A's are going to have a very strong pitching staff in the near future. Cahill is NASTY! Did you watch the game last night? He has a dirty sinker ball that he can use to get K's as well as ground balls. AFter seeing how this season has played out, as excited as I was about getting Holliday, I think maybe more could have been done with Huston Street and Carlos Gonzales, but the A's and Giants look to both have a good future on the way.


Yeah it's always tough with sinkerballers if they stay down in the zone. But Mazarro just looks nastier to me. We'll see i guess.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 4:15 pm
i like the giants/a's subgroup we got goin here..

mazarro looks good, but alot of pitchers come in and make their mark, then are unable to adjust to the adjustments made against them...i dont want to get my hopes up on him yet

btw speaking of young pitchers, liriano must be the saddest story of recent baseball...i still remember when he made johan santana semi-expendable
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