JREED23 wrote:

bada wrote:Keep in mind the guy has coached in the NFL for 16 years! This separates him from the failures everyone keeps mentioning.

Here are the NFL experience of recent college to NFL coaches before becoming an NFL head coach:

Spurrier - 0
Petrino - 2
Saban - 4
Erickson - 0

Who knows if he will be the right guy or not, but to lump him as a "college" coach I dont think it accurate considering he has coached in the NFL twice as long as he has college.

Not quite, Carroll only had 4 years at HC in the NFL. As a HC and assistant/coordinator he had 14 Total seasons in college and 12 in the NFL.

Are you referring to Erickson's career when he accepted the Seahawks job or 9ers? I assume your referring to the seahawks.

Spurrier did play in the NFL for 8 seasons and he coached 2 years at the pro ranks in the USFL - the origins of the "fun 'n' gun" offense.

And don't forget:
Butch Davis - 5 years
Rich Brooks - 4 years
Mike Riley - 0

Jimmy Johnson is about the only exception.

What I was actually referring to, in my previous post, was the rapid success that former NFL HCs have in the college ranks - not so much the other way around. If any college coach deserves a crack (or second, third, fourth crack) at the NFL it is Carroll or Urban Meyer, though I doubt his spread would translate well.

And lets not forget that after going 6-10 with Jets, Carroll inherited a team that just went to the Superbowl the previous year.

If I could put aside my hate for the Seashawks for a moment and offer an unbiased opinion; They pulled the trigger on Mora too soon - it's not like they guy had much to work with. Hell, 5-11 is a one game improvement over what the future HOFer Holmgren did in the previous year.

no, 16 seasons as a coach in the NFL (not saying HEAD coach)

1984 - Buffalo Bills (DB Coach)
1985 - Minn Vikings (DB Coach)
1986 - Minn Vikings (DB Coach)
1987 - Minn Vikings (DB Coach)
1988 - Minn Vikings (DB Coach)
1989 - Minn Vikings (DB Coach)
1990 –NY Jets Defensive Coordinator
1991 –NY Jets Defensive Coordinator
1992 –NY Jets Defensive Coordinator
1993 –NY Jets Defensive Coordinator
1994 –NY Jets Head Coach
1995 -SF 49ers Defensive Coordinator
1996 -SF 49ers Defensive Coordinator
1997 -NE Head Coach
1998 -NE Head Coach
1999 -NE Head Coach

That is 16 years in the NFL. Yes, he did have some previous college coaching exp in the late 70's and early 80's. But since he started in the NFL, he has coached 16 years there and been at SC for 8 season.

I agree to a point about Mora. I was fine with giving him another year but there were some dynamics there that warranted a house cleaning which is why the GM and the Coach were gone. There was some bad blood and "sides" drawn, mostly around Holmgren. Needed to just clean house.

I just wish they would have make Jeff Fisher and Bud Adams an offer they could not refuse. Carroll certainly not my 1st, 2nd or even 3rd choice, but what is done is done and I am excited to see what he brings to the table.

JREED23 wrote:For $33 mil the Hawks should be expecting for than just a house cleaner. .

Well the money is completely a non issue. Does not matter whether it is 1 million a year or 50 million a year. Does not count against your cap and that is really not that much money for Allen. He would not blink an eye at that if he thinks that would help the team.

JREED23 wrote:I just don't see them passing on Jim Mora after just one season, especially after it was an improvement. Mora is going to get another chance some where else and teams like the Hawks, Falcons, and even the 9ers are going to regret not giving the guy more of a shot. Look at how long the Jags have given Rio. It's premature and indicative of a still-young/inexperience franchise that is hitting the panic button and making a classless move.

You have nothing to base that comment on. You have zero idea what was going on inside that building or between coach and players.

Additionally the owner has non-hodkins lymphoma and has about a 25% chance to live more than the next 5 years. If he or the football people around him are convinced that Carroll can help deliver him a championship in his lifetime, then I have no problems with that (other than I dont think Carroll is that guy but that is besides the point).

bada wrote:

JREED23 wrote:

bada wrote:Keep in mind the guy has coached in the NFL for 16 years! This separates him from the failures everyone keeps mentioning.

Here are the NFL experience of recent college to NFL coaches before becoming an NFL head coach:

Spurrier - 0
Petrino - 2
Saban - 4
Erickson - 0

Who knows if he will be the right guy or not, but to lump him as a "college" coach I dont think it accurate considering he has coached in the NFL twice as long as he has college.

Not quite, Carroll only had 4 years at HC in the NFL. As a HC and assistant/coordinator he had 14 Total seasons in college and 12 in the NFL.

Are you referring to Erickson's career when he accepted the Seahawks job or 9ers? I assume your referring to the seahawks.

Spurrier did play in the NFL for 8 seasons and he coached 2 years at the pro ranks in the USFL - the origins of the "fun 'n' gun" offense.

And don't forget:
Butch Davis - 5 years
Rich Brooks - 4 years
Mike Riley - 0

Jimmy Johnson is about the only exception.

What I was actually referring to, in my previous post, was the rapid success that former NFL HCs have in the college ranks - not so much the other way around. If any college coach deserves a crack (or second, third, fourth crack) at the NFL it is Carroll or Urban Meyer, though I doubt his spread would translate well.

And lets not forget that after going 6-10 with Jets, Carroll inherited a team that just went to the Superbowl the previous year.

If I could put aside my hate for the Seashawks for a moment and offer an unbiased opinion; They pulled the trigger on Mora too soon - it's not like they guy had much to work with. Hell, 5-11 is a one game improvement over what the future HOFer Holmgren did in the previous year.

no, 16 seasons as a coach in the NFL (not saying HEAD coach)

1984 - Buffalo Bills (DB Coach)
1985 - Minn Vikings (DB Coach)
1986 - Minn Vikings (DB Coach)
1987 - Minn Vikings (DB Coach)
1988 - Minn Vikings (DB Coach)
1989 - Minn Vikings (DB Coach)
1990 –NY Jets Defensive Coordinator
1991 –NY Jets Defensive Coordinator
1992 –NY Jets Defensive Coordinator
1993 –NY Jets Defensive Coordinator
1994 –NY Jets Head Coach
1995 -SF 49ers Defensive Coordinator
1996 -SF 49ers Defensive Coordinator
1997 -NE Head Coach
1998 -NE Head Coach
1999 -NE Head Coach

That is 16 years in the NFL. Yes, he did have some previous college coaching exp in the late 70's and early 80's. But since he started in the NFL, he has coached 16 years there and been at SC for 8 season.

I agree to a point about Mora. I was fine with giving him another year but there were some dynamics there that warranted a house cleaning which is why the GM and the Coach were gone. There was some bad blood and "sides" drawn, mostly around Holmgren. Needed to just clean house.

I just wish they would have make Jeff Fisher and Bud Adams an offer they could not refuse. Carroll certainly not my 1st, 2nd or even 3rd choice, but what is done is done and I am excited to see what he brings to the table.

I stand corrected, I don't know how I screwed up my math on that one. But still if you're going to count his time spent as a position coach in the NFL, you gotta consider his time as a coordinator in college.

Fisher would have been the better choice but he would have demanded a huge contract to lure him out of Tenn. He would have wanted much more than the $6.6 million your paying Carroll - he is already making about $6 million and he's longest tenured HC on a more competitive team.

JREED23 wrote:

bada wrote:

JREED23 wrote:

bada wrote:Keep in mind the guy has coached in the NFL for 16 years! This separates him from the failures everyone keeps mentioning.

Here are the NFL experience of recent college to NFL coaches before becoming an NFL head coach:

Spurrier - 0
Petrino - 2
Saban - 4
Erickson - 0

Who knows if he will be the right guy or not, but to lump him as a "college" coach I dont think it accurate considering he has coached in the NFL twice as long as he has college.

Not quite, Carroll only had 4 years at HC in the NFL. As a HC and assistant/coordinator he had 14 Total seasons in college and 12 in the NFL.

Are you referring to Erickson's career when he accepted the Seahawks job or 9ers? I assume your referring to the seahawks.

Spurrier did play in the NFL for 8 seasons and he coached 2 years at the pro ranks in the USFL - the origins of the "fun 'n' gun" offense.

And don't forget:
Butch Davis - 5 years
Rich Brooks - 4 years
Mike Riley - 0

Jimmy Johnson is about the only exception.

What I was actually referring to, in my previous post, was the rapid success that former NFL HCs have in the college ranks - not so much the other way around. If any college coach deserves a crack (or second, third, fourth crack) at the NFL it is Carroll or Urban Meyer, though I doubt his spread would translate well.

And lets not forget that after going 6-10 with Jets, Carroll inherited a team that just went to the Superbowl the previous year.

If I could put aside my hate for the Seashawks for a moment and offer an unbiased opinion; They pulled the trigger on Mora too soon - it's not like they guy had much to work with. Hell, 5-11 is a one game improvement over what the future HOFer Holmgren did in the previous year.

no, 16 seasons as a coach in the NFL (not saying HEAD coach)

1984 - Buffalo Bills (DB Coach)
1985 - Minn Vikings (DB Coach)
1986 - Minn Vikings (DB Coach)
1987 - Minn Vikings (DB Coach)
1988 - Minn Vikings (DB Coach)
1989 - Minn Vikings (DB Coach)
1990 –NY Jets Defensive Coordinator
1991 –NY Jets Defensive Coordinator
1992 –NY Jets Defensive Coordinator
1993 –NY Jets Defensive Coordinator
1994 –NY Jets Head Coach
1995 -SF 49ers Defensive Coordinator
1996 -SF 49ers Defensive Coordinator
1997 -NE Head Coach
1998 -NE Head Coach
1999 -NE Head Coach

That is 16 years in the NFL. Yes, he did have some previous college coaching exp in the late 70's and early 80's. But since he started in the NFL, he has coached 16 years there and been at SC for 8 season.

I agree to a point about Mora. I was fine with giving him another year but there were some dynamics there that warranted a house cleaning which is why the GM and the Coach were gone. There was some bad blood and "sides" drawn, mostly around Holmgren. Needed to just clean house.

I just wish they would have make Jeff Fisher and Bud Adams an offer they could not refuse. Carroll certainly not my 1st, 2nd or even 3rd choice, but what is done is done and I am excited to see what he brings to the table.

I stand corrected, I don't know how I screwed up my math on that one. But still if you're going to count his time spent as a position coach in the NFL, you gotta consider his time as a coordinator in college.

Fisher would have been the better choice but he would have demanded a huge contract to lure him out of Tenn. He would have wanted much more than the $6.6 million your paying Carroll - he is already making about $6 million and he's longest tenured HC on a more competitive team.

Again, that would not have been a problem. Money is not the issue... the issue is did they even consider it and I dont think they did

Really my whole point is it bugs me when people (not saying you) say "He wont be successful. College coaches never are". He is NOT a college coach. He is an NFL coach that has ALSO coached college ball.

Much more willing to look at his average performance as an NFL HC as a predictor then this "college coach" thing.

bada wrote:

JREED23 wrote:For $33 mil the Hawks should be expecting for than just a house cleaner. .

Well the money is completely a non issue. Does not matter whether it is 1 million a year or 50 million a year. Does not count against your cap and that is really not that much money for Allen. He would not blink an eye at that if he thinks that would help the team.

JREED23 wrote:I just don't see them passing on Jim Mora after just one season, especially after it was an improvement. Mora is going to get another chance some where else and teams like the Hawks, Falcons, and even the 9ers are going to regret not giving the guy more of a shot. Look at how long the Jags have given Rio. It's premature and indicative of a still-young/inexperience franchise that is hitting the panic button and making a classless move.

You have nothing to base that comment on. You have zero idea what was going on inside that building or between coach and players.

Additionally the owner has non-hodkins lymphoma and has about a 25% chance to live more than the next 5 years. If he or the football people around him are convinced that Carroll can help deliver him a championship in his lifetime, then I have no problems with that (other than I dont think Carroll is that guy but that is besides the point).

I believe that money is never "a non issue" when it comes to business, regardless of the owner's condition. I realize it doesn't count against the cap, and I never inferred that it was an unreasonably expensive salary - I do believe it makes him the highest paid coach in the league though. Seahawks have become known for paying their coaches a lot - Holmgren was making $8 mill as a HC and GM.

I was unaware that I needed knowledge of the inner workings of the Seahawks organization to comment that firing Mora was premature and that move was indicative of a young organization.

Additionally, the fact that the owner is in such poor health supports my belief that they are "hitting the panic button", I did not know this though. I can't blame them for "panicking" even if that isn't the case and I suppose I can't consider it "classless" considering the circumstances, if in fact they influenced the decision.

JREED23 wrote:

bada wrote:

JREED23 wrote:For $33 mil the Hawks should be expecting for than just a house cleaner. .

Well the money is completely a non issue. Does not matter whether it is 1 million a year or 50 million a year. Does not count against your cap and that is really not that much money for Allen. He would not blink an eye at that if he thinks that would help the team.

JREED23 wrote:I just don't see them passing on Jim Mora after just one season, especially after it was an improvement. Mora is going to get another chance some where else and teams like the Hawks, Falcons, and even the 9ers are going to regret not giving the guy more of a shot. Look at how long the Jags have given Rio. It's premature and indicative of a still-young/inexperience franchise that is hitting the panic button and making a classless move.

You have nothing to base that comment on. You have zero idea what was going on inside that building or between coach and players.

Additionally the owner has non-hodkins lymphoma and has about a 25% chance to live more than the next 5 years. If he or the football people around him are convinced that Carroll can help deliver him a championship in his lifetime, then I have no problems with that (other than I dont think Carroll is that guy but that is besides the point).

I believe that money is never "a non issue" when it comes to business, regardless of the owner's condition. I realize it doesn't count against the cap, and I never inferred that it was an unreasonably expensive salary - I do believe it makes him the highest paid coach in the league though. Seahawks have become known for paying their coaches a lot - Holmgren was making $8 mill as a HC and GM.

I was unaware that I needed knowledge of the inner workings of the Seahawks organization to comment that firing Mora was premature and that move was indicative of a young organization.

Additionally, the fact that the owner is in such poor health supports my belief that they are "hitting the panic button", I did not know this though. I can't blame them for "panicking" even if that isn't the case and I suppose I can't consider it "classless" considering the circumstances, if in fact they influenced the decision.

Premature is fine. It was the classless comment that got me. Paul Allen has done a lot of things to run his organization with the utmost class.

No problems with anything else you said.

bada wrote:

JREED23 wrote:

bada wrote:

JREED23 wrote:

bada wrote:Keep in mind the guy has coached in the NFL for 16 years! This separates him from the failures everyone keeps mentioning.

Here are the NFL experience of recent college to NFL coaches before becoming an NFL head coach:

Spurrier - 0
Petrino - 2
Saban - 4
Erickson - 0

Who knows if he will be the right guy or not, but to lump him as a "college" coach I dont think it accurate considering he has coached in the NFL twice as long as he has college.

Not quite, Carroll only had 4 years at HC in the NFL. As a HC and assistant/coordinator he had 14 Total seasons in college and 12 in the NFL.

Are you referring to Erickson's career when he accepted the Seahawks job or 9ers? I assume your referring to the seahawks.

Spurrier did play in the NFL for 8 seasons and he coached 2 years at the pro ranks in the USFL - the origins of the "fun 'n' gun" offense.

And don't forget:
Butch Davis - 5 years
Rich Brooks - 4 years
Mike Riley - 0

Jimmy Johnson is about the only exception.

What I was actually referring to, in my previous post, was the rapid success that former NFL HCs have in the college ranks - not so much the other way around. If any college coach deserves a crack (or second, third, fourth crack) at the NFL it is Carroll or Urban Meyer, though I doubt his spread would translate well.

And lets not forget that after going 6-10 with Jets, Carroll inherited a team that just went to the Superbowl the previous year.

If I could put aside my hate for the Seashawks for a moment and offer an unbiased opinion; They pulled the trigger on Mora too soon - it's not like they guy had much to work with. Hell, 5-11 is a one game improvement over what the future HOFer Holmgren did in the previous year.

no, 16 seasons as a coach in the NFL (not saying HEAD coach)

1984 - Buffalo Bills (DB Coach)
1985 - Minn Vikings (DB Coach)
1986 - Minn Vikings (DB Coach)
1987 - Minn Vikings (DB Coach)
1988 - Minn Vikings (DB Coach)
1989 - Minn Vikings (DB Coach)
1990 –NY Jets Defensive Coordinator
1991 –NY Jets Defensive Coordinator
1992 –NY Jets Defensive Coordinator
1993 –NY Jets Defensive Coordinator
1994 –NY Jets Head Coach
1995 -SF 49ers Defensive Coordinator
1996 -SF 49ers Defensive Coordinator
1997 -NE Head Coach
1998 -NE Head Coach
1999 -NE Head Coach

That is 16 years in the NFL. Yes, he did have some previous college coaching exp in the late 70's and early 80's. But since he started in the NFL, he has coached 16 years there and been at SC for 8 season.

I agree to a point about Mora. I was fine with giving him another year but there were some dynamics there that warranted a house cleaning which is why the GM and the Coach were gone. There was some bad blood and "sides" drawn, mostly around Holmgren. Needed to just clean house.

I just wish they would have make Jeff Fisher and Bud Adams an offer they could not refuse. Carroll certainly not my 1st, 2nd or even 3rd choice, but what is done is done and I am excited to see what he brings to the table.

I stand corrected, I don't know how I screwed up my math on that one. But still if you're going to count his time spent as a position coach in the NFL, you gotta consider his time as a coordinator in college.

Fisher would have been the better choice but he would have demanded a huge contract to lure him out of Tenn. He would have wanted much more than the $6.6 million your paying Carroll - he is already making about $6 million and he's longest tenured HC on a more competitive team.

Again, that would not have been a problem. Money is not the issue... the issue is did they even consider it and I dont think they did

Really my whole point is it bugs me when people (not saying you) say "He wont be successful. College coaches never are". He is NOT a college coach. He is an NFL coach that has ALSO coached college ball.

Much more willing to look at his average performance as an NFL HC as a predictor then this "college coach" thing.

I never said he would be a bad HC (I understand you're not saying I did) but I disagree that he is a NFL coach.
Iowa State (SC) 1978 - 1 year
Ohio State (SC) 1979 - 1
North Carolina State (DC) 1980–1982 - 3
Pacific (OC) 1983 -1
USC 2001–2009 -9

15 years as a college coordinator and head coach, 6 of his 16 NFL years were spent as a position coach.

There is no right or wrong here, I just believe that his experience supports the argument that he is a college coach with NFL experience.

I am fired up about some of the assistants that are coming along.... especially Ken Norton Jr as LB coach. What a job he has done coaching up the USC LB's and I loved his fire as a player. He should be able to get more out of this talented LB core.

Like the hiring of Alex Gibbs as OL coach. Gives the staff a longtime NFL guy with a proven track record.

I also like the Jeremy Bates hire.

I am not sure about the DC hire. Would have liked a guy with NFL experience (my personal favorite would have been Jerry Gray with the Redskins).

All in all, a step up from Knapp and Bradley

bada wrote:I am fired up about some of the assistants that are coming along.... especially Ken Norton Jr as LB coach. What a job he has done coaching up the USC LB's and I loved his fire as a player. He should be able to get more out of this talented LB core.

Like the hiring of Alex Gibbs as OL coach. Gives the staff a longtime NFL guy with a proven track record.

I also like the Jeremy Bates hire.

I am not sure about the DC hire. Would have liked a guy with NFL experience (my personal favorite would have been Jerry Gray with the Redskins).
All in all, a step up from Knapp and Bradley

OMG! They must have heard me! Just saw that Walker is no longer a candidate and they are interviewing Jerry Gray! DO NOT LET HIM LEAVE SEATTLE WITHOUT A SIGNED CONTRACT!!!! PLEASE!!!!!!!

I am just so excited since I never heard any inclination of a link between Gray and Seattle.

Floyd Reese one of two finalists for the GM job. Omar Khan from the Steelers the other.

Landing Reese would be a big win. He is a proven successful personel guy.

As a bonus he has worked with Jerry Gray before I believe.

If we land Reese and Gray with the hirings of Gibbs and Bates, this will be a great staff for Carroll.

bada wrote:Floyd Reese one of two finalists for the GM job. Omar Khan from the Steelers the other.

Landing Reese would be a big win. He is a proven successful personel guy.

As a bonus he has worked with Jerry Gray before I believe.

If we land Reese and Gray with the hirings of Gibbs and Bates, this will be a great staff for Carroll.

I don't really believe in great staffs anymore til they prove it. I mean, on paper, Jags and Bates were a great fit for Morris' first season as the Bucs HC, and the team only improved once both were fired.

In fact, it was so bad that the team is gonna get rid of most of that coaching staff. Only Greg Olson, Joe Barry and Rich Bisaccia did a good job (again, on paper, because lack of talent also plays a role), and seems like we're gonna lose the latter.


But, back to the Seahawks, I like Gray's signing (if it finally happens) a lot. His job with the Bills D was pretty good, and I think he deserves another shot as coordinator, and one in which he can make an impact. He'll have that kind of players in Seattle.


As for Reeses, I also like the idea of bringing someone with previous GM experience to fill that position. And I think he wouldn't have a problem working with Carroll, as both have worked together before.

Just wondering what kind of power he'll have, because, between Carroll and Leiweke, I don't know what's left for him.

Well, Schneider lands the GM job. Apparently, you were half right Bada. Reese was a finalist, but Khan was not. The other finalist was, in fact, Schneider.

xbay wrote:Well, Schneider lands the GM job. Apparently, you were half right Bada. Reese was a finalist, but Khan was not. The other finalist was, in fact, Schneider.

Reese f'ed himself! He leaked to the media that he was the leading candidate (which he was). But that pissed the Hawks off so he essentially cost himself the job.

Dont know much about Schneider as he has never been the final decision maker. But he wont be here either.

Home: Arizona Cardinals, San Francisco 49ers, St. Louis Rams, Atlanta Falcons, Carolina Panthers, New York Giants, Kansas City Chiefs, San Diego Chargers

Away: Arizona Cardinals, San Francisco 49ers, St. Louis Rams, New Orleans Saints, Tampa Bay Buccaneers, Chicago Bears, Denver Broncos, Oakland Raiders

Once again, Bada, be aware these are the teams who the Seahawks will face. When they face them won't be known 'til sometime after the Super Bowl.

The Seahawks have so many questions that I still can't decide which kind of team they'll be... so it's not like we can analyze their rivals just yet.

Although I've got to say that it doesn't look like a terrible schedule. Tough?. Yes. But I've seen worse.