Barry Zito Thread

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 10:36 am
I've been the biggest Zito contract apologist I've known since he signed the damn thing. I've stood on my soapbox and ranted that the Giants had to sign someone with their $90 million + payroll, and that no one else wanted to come here to play. I've said that Zito is the perfect rebuilding clubhouse guy and mentor for our young pitchers. I've said he was overpriced, but that's what you get for signing top free agents when you're in rebuilding mode.

Now... I think it's just a horrible contract.

I don't think it stunts our rebuilding, however. Tell me who else we'd be spending that money on right now and I'll change my mind. So many overpriced stars have said no to Sabean in the past few years I almost think our top 10 payroll isn't much of an advantage.

Did you really want the swelling Carlos Lee (who turned us down for the Astros) and his 6 year, $100 million contract? Or Gary Matthews Jr. (turned us down) and his 5 year, $50 million contract? Or Alfonso Soriano (turned us down) and his 8 years, $136 million contract?

All bad contracts, and none were even available to us. Sad, ain't it?
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 11:45 am
No one can argue that it isn't a bad contract. It is a terrible contract. You don't pay someone not named Johan Santana 120 mil to pitch for you. It can be (and has been) debated whether Zito is the 3rd best starter on the Giants or the 6th best starter but either way he isn't worth half the contract he's been given.

With that said, blaming him for his contract is silly. That's like blaming Jerome James for the plight of the Knicks - it takes an Isiah Thomas to sign him just like it takes a Brian Sabean to waste that much cash on a Zito. You have to look at who's captaining the ship, not the cargo that's draggin it down to the bottom of the ocean.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 12:54 pm
you are right, we cannot blame him for getting the contract...but we can blame him for being "fragile-minded", and pitching horribly as a result of it!
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 12:30 am
Here is a nice article for all of the Zito Heads out there...

It takes some talent to lose 20 games in a season.

Mike Maroth is the last guy to breach the big two-oh, doing so for the Tigers in 2003, but he subsequently posted adequate seasons with WHIPs in the 1.3s and ERAs in the fours. Brian Kingman of the A's lost 20 in 1980, but he did it with a 3.83 ERA. In the 1970s, such luminaries as Phil Niekro, Wilbur Wood, Jerry Koosman, Mickey Lolich, Steve Rogers, Denny McLain and, yes, Steve Carlton lost 20 or more in a single season.

It probably won't happen in 2008, but oh, we have some candidates. I'm looking at you, Barry Zito.


Barry Zito tied a career-worst 13 losses last season. He could eclipse that mark by the All-Star break.

Zito is 0-5 for the Giants with a 5.61 ERA, and while he hasn't been atrocious every time out, he's got the right (or, depending on your perspective, wrong) combination of a bad offensive team, a bad defensive team and a reputation as an ace who takes the ball every five days no matter what. He's not entirely without fantasy value in NL-only leagues (Tristan Cockcroft reports to me that Zito recently went for $41 worth of FAAB money in the NL version of LABR, and Tristan also gleefully mentions it was not he who made that astronomical bid) because while Zito's strikeouts have declined every season since 2004, he's still a good bet to give you in the 130 to 150 range.
Matt Morris also makes an intriguing lose-a-thon candidate. He's 0-3 through four starts with a 9.15 ERA and a 1.98 WHIP, and he's not owned in any ESPN.com leagues (Zito is owned in 13.3 percent) because he's, well, awful. In fact, Morris is probably too terrible to approach 20 losses; he'd probably get released before he got close.

Joe Blanton is 1-4 but has actually pitched rather well: 4.32 ERA, 1.37 WHIP, just seven walks in 41 2/3 innings -- although the league is hitting .292 against him. He lost 12 in both '05 and '06, and despite their current record the A's do look like a stinker of a team, but Blanton will probably turn it around soon. (He's owned in 70.2 percent of ESPN leagues.)

Then there's Matt Chico, who's 0-4 for the abysmal Nationals. The 25-year-old lefty (who, for some reason, is owned in 0.4 percent of ESPN leagues) dropped nine games in his 31 starts last year, and has carried over his brutal control numbers from 2007: 17 K's and 10 BBs in 28 1/3 innings. Whether or not Chico can eclipse the magic Ray Allen line (20 is Allen's uniform number with the Celtics) probably depends on whether the Nats like him enough to stick with him through the horror of a summer without wins.

No, in the end, our best shot for 20 is still probably Zito. His huge contract means the Giants will keep him in the rotation, and often as not he'll be matched up against an opponent's ace. Like I said, it probably won't happen. But who says the Giants are through with their Barry problems?
-Christopher Harris ESPN.com
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 8:16 am
I don't blame Zito for his contract; I blame him for being the first Giants pitcher since the 1920's to start 0-5. I blame him for not having solid control of the ONE pitch the Giants are paying him to throw (his curveball). I blame him for not being able to keep his sh*t together when a baserunner is behind him. I blame him for having an 80 MPH fastball that looks like he's putting it on a T for batters. I blame him for his nonchalaunt, "don't-panic" attitude that tells me he only takes this as "a game" and isn't too concerned with his sucktatude because there's more to life. I blame him for not even being average.

That last line is really what brings it home. Zito isn't even average. He's terrible. And he's our ace. I guarentee you, there are some sub-par pitches in the league who put their damn game face on and pitch like its their last game ever when they get a spot in a major league rotation. Look at Kevin Correa. But Zito... Zito doesn't even look like he cares. He doesn't even get amped up for games. He doesn't psyche himself up to be the ace on a team featuring Matt Cain and Tim Lincecum. He doesn't even look like he aspires to be as good as them; let alone, better than them (which is what he SHOULD be). Barry Zito is the veteran of this rotation... and he's the only one I'm worried about. He should be the solid one with the experience, but he's the panicky one who melts under pressure like a rookie. I'm not okay with that.

His atrocious contract only compounds what I'm already angry about. If I were angry because Zito wasn't living up to his contract, I'd have already shot myself. I'm angry about a lot of other things... the contract is just the nail in the coffin.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 12:43 pm
Well, my above post was all about Zito's contract, but 32 basically hit the nail on the head on Zito's performance this year. If this continues the Giants should consider trading him in an eat-lots-of-salary type deal to give him a change of scenery. There's no way he'll be good for the team if he sucks for the next five seasons and fans resent the dude.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 1:34 pm
Zito is a crybaby. he's use to the frat house environment of the A's. The same thing with Chavez. they're whiners and they bitch, and go through hissy fits. 6 runs in the first inning. Zito just go away.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 1:50 pm
zito's at it again. 7-0 and its only the 2nd inning.

cant believe i have to watch this garbage every 5th day.

looks like zito is gonna need to learn the knuckle-ball after all.
"Losing is inevitably close to winning," Guber said. "They're inches apart. Drama. If you have drama, you've got a ticket to sell." "They're not real fans," Lacob said. "They don't have season tickets."
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 2:25 pm
I would not be surprised to see Zito be forced into the bullpen one of these games. Just scratched as a starter... for good. They have to have somebody better than this, even though Zito is making the big bucks.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 4:15 pm
sfsfsfgiants wrote:I would not be surprised to see Zito be forced into the bullpen one of these games. Just scratched as a starter... for good. They have to have somebody better than this, even though Zito is making the big bucks.
Doesn't look like thats going to happen. They're already spinning May as a new month, and a fresh start.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 6:22 pm
Barry Zito is awesome.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 7:15 pm
Rehren1296 wrote:
sfsfsfgiants wrote:I would not be surprised to see Zito be forced into the bullpen one of these games. Just scratched as a starter... for good. They have to have somebody better than this, even though Zito is making the big bucks.
Doesn't look like thats going to happen. They're already spinning May as a new month, and a fresh start.


If he keeps pitching like this fresh starts won't mean much. That's the great thing about baseball... no one survives being horrible.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 7:35 pm
StuckInSoCal wrote:That's the great thing about baseball... no one survives being horrible.


Except for Dave Roberts and Ray Durham, who, seemingly, never get benched, no matter what. :wink:
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 10:06 pm
Well... Durham wouldn't be playing if we had someone who could take his job. You take a look at Velez's OBP lately, or see that dropped ball he had today?

Not that I think Durham should be playing. He shouldn't. Sabean should have never resigned him.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 8:59 am
There is really nothing else to do but to put him in long relief.

What hope is there for a major league pitcher with high school speed?

There are many, hundreds no doubt, of pitchers in the minors, college or undrafted ex-players that are better than BZ.

Don't these baseball geniuses check out the physical condition of players they want to sign? If all he could throw was 82 mph, then that would be easy to check out. Reminds me of the Ws signing Webber. Didn't they put him through the most rudimentary workout to see if he could actually play a strenuous sport? Guess not.
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