Jason Kidd to Dallas...AGAIN

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 5:50 pm
It looks like there will be a new deal submitted for league approval as early as tomorrow...involving Trenton Hassel and Keith Van Horn instead of Jerry Stackhouse and Devean George.

It's looking more and more like Jason Kidd's start for the road team in Sunday's NBA All-Star Game will indeed be his farewell to the Eastern Conference.

That's because the New Jersey Nets and Dallas Mavericks are again closing in on a deal that would send Kidd back to his original team, according to NBA front-office sources.

A reconfigured trade likely won't be submitted for league approval until Monday -- and is bound to draw a longer-than-usual examination from the league before it's approved after the many complications that derailed the teams' original agreement on Wednesday -- but sources say that the Mavericks and Nets have reached a tentative agreement on the two major changes to save the blockbuster swap.

Sources say Mavs swingman Trenton Hassell and the retired Keith Van Horn will be plugged into the trade in place of Jerry Stackhouse and Devean George. If the newly proposed deal goes through, New Jersey would receive 24-year-old point guard Devin Harris, center DeSagana Diop, guard Maurice Ager, forwards Hassell and Van Horn, two first-round draft picks and $3 million in cash for Kidd and Nets forward Malik Allen.

To make up for the removal of George -- who blocked his inclusion by citing a little-known league rule that prevents certain players with one-year contracts from being traded without their consent -- Dallas has secured Van Horn's participation via sign-and-trade in George's place. Out of the game since the 2006 NBA Finals, Van Horn will be required to report to New Jersey and submit to a physical to complete the transaction, with sources adding that the amount Van Horn receives this season -- believed to be more than $4 million -- will not be pro-rated even though Van Horn would be joining the Nets with less than half the season remaining.

The Nets, meanwhile, have apparently given their blessing to taking Hassell from Dallas instead of Stackhouse. The Mavericks have been pushing for that switch since Friday in the wake of Stackhouse's quotes Wednesday that gave the impression that the teams had already arranged for the Nets to immediately buy out the 33-year-old's contract so the Mavericks could re-sign him after a 30-day waiting period.

It's believed that New Jersey had been resisting Hassell because his guaranteed salary in 2009-2010 ($4.4 million) is more than twice as much as Stackhouse's guarantee that season ($2 million) and because Hassell might be less amenable to a buyout than Stackhouse. But it looks as though the Nets will consent to the change to end a saga that had dragged on for days because George unexpectedly blocked the trade, even though they preferred the long-term financial implications of taking Stackhouse and buying him out.

If Van Horn's inclusion is sanctioned by the league Monday, this deal will likewise create a bigger luxury-tax bill for Mavs owner Mark Cuban than the original, with Dallas keeping Stackhouse and George.

At its core, though, both teams appear poised to ultimately get what they wanted in spite of a growing list of obstacles.

Dallas would come out of the protracted negotiations with an elite veteran point guard for the first time since Steve Nash's departure in the summer of 2004. Kidd's arrival also creates a foursome to rival any star core in the West -- along with Dirk Nowitzki, Josh Howard and Jason Terry -- and a likely antidote to the Mavericks' well-chronicled troubles with mental toughness, confidence and leadership in back-to-back playoff humblings by Miami and Golden State.

The bottom-line equation would stay the same for New Jersey as well, with Nets president Rod Thorn coming away with a highly regarded young point guard to replace Kidd in Harris, two expiring contracts (Diop and Van Horn) and the two first-round picks. It's a pretty good haul for a 34-year-old whose recent public disclosure that it was time for the Nets to trade him could have weakened Thorn's bargaining position.

Marc Stein is the senior NBA writer for ESPN.com. To e-mail him, click here.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 5:55 pm
If this is true, it's a good deal for Dallas, whereas the first deal was awful for them. Here's their lineup now

PG - Kidd/Terry
SG - Stackhouse/Terry/Jones
SF - Howard/George
PF - Nowitzki/Bass
C - Dampier/?
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 6:03 pm
Yup..............this is a much better deal for Dallas...........now I bet those West Gm's that were pissed at George and Stack are wishing they hadnt moaned so much..............because this makes Dallas a hell of alot better than the first deal.

Ohh well.................something still may come up at the eleventh hour! you never know.

Also, I like how theres no rumours about any moves for us, always a good sign as most of Mullys moves have come out of knowhere...........heres hoping.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 7:28 pm
Much Better Deal for Dallas...


I wonder if Van Horn is gonna get P.T?


4 days untill the Trade Deadline...
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 7:38 pm
Mr.Kunlathep_Chucnjit wrote:Much Better Deal for Dallas...


I wonder if Van Horn is gonna get P.T?


4 days untill the Trade Deadline...


Actually yeah...............I dont get why everyone is asking why Van Horn is going to play??? (not aiming at you Mr)...........the guy is retired, hes off running his own businesses...........isnt it simply going to be that he comes out of retirement and signs the contract (which will be about 4 mil by the way.........nice for him) and then be waived or bought out by N.J.................???..............like Mckie in the Gasol trade (although slightly different as he was coaching).
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 9:56 pm
tHe_pEsTiLeNcE wrote:If this is true, it's a good deal for Dallas, whereas the first deal was awful for them. Here's their lineup now

PG - Kidd/Terry
SG - Stackhouse/Terry/Jones
SF - Howard/George
PF - Nowitzki/Bass
C - Dampier/?


If the deal works out, it seems like Devean George should be loved in Dallas, he got them a much better deal!
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 3:25 am
I don't think it's much better. The original deal had Stackhouse back in Dallas after being cut by New Jersey... and that would have happened if not for him opening his mouth.

This one just allows them to keep Stackhouse. As for Devean George... I like Hassell more than I like George.


Still, everybody knew this trade was going to happen. The Nets wouldn't pass on a chance to replace Kidd with a top PG like Devin Harris.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 6:36 am
TMC wrote:I don't think it's much better. The original deal had Stackhouse back in Dallas after being cut by New Jersey... and that would have happened if not for him opening his mouth.

This one just allows them to keep Stackhouse. As for Devean George... I like Hassell more than I like George.


Still, everybody knew this trade was going to happen. The Nets wouldn't pass on a chance to replace Kidd with a top PG like Devin Harris.


i agree...

+
George is going to get Cut at the end of the season...
He should have went to N.J and got some P.T

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 9:24 am
after all that the mavs have not really advanced
that much.....cuban must have loved all the drama
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 9:58 am
Ugh. They STILL get Kidd, and now they don't even need to give up George or Stackhouse (both rotation players for them). That's HORRIBLE for New Jersey. They didn't even get Brandan Bass. They got Devin Harris. For Jason Kidd. That's it.

They should riot in Jersey. I'll bet you Kidd looks better than Nash, when he gets to Dallas. I would NOT be shocked to see him average a trouble double for the remainder of the year. Kidd FINALLY got himself some weapons to work with.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 11:15 am
32 wrote:Ugh. They STILL get Kidd, and now they don't even need to give up George or Stackhouse (both rotation players for them). That's HORRIBLE for New Jersey. They didn't even get Brandan Bass. They got Devin Harris. For Jason Kidd. That's it.

They should riot in Jersey. I'll bet you Kidd looks better than Nash, when he gets to Dallas. I would NOT be shocked to see him average a trouble double for the remainder of the year. Kidd FINALLY got himself some weapons to work with.


Are you kidding? While I think this is also a good deal for Dallas, it's the best deal New Jersey could have hoped for. Kidd is 35 years old, and in return for him they get Devin Harris (who is already almost as good as Kidd and ten years younger), Desagana Diop (who helps their pitiful frontcourt), and two first rounders. This is all for a guy who is seriously declining and within two years won't necessarily even be at starter level. I think you're looking at what Kidd was, not what Kidd is, because what Kidd is is a guy who can't play defense worth a lick, can't score worth a lick, and just passes and rebounds well. Don't get me wrong, I think this is a good trade for Dallas, but it's an effin' coup for New Jersey to get that much for a 35 year old who demanded a trade. New Jersey was 23-30, what was the point of continuing to pay a guy 20 million dollars per year when he was going to be good for 1-2 more years max.

As for Kidd averaging a triple double on Dallas, the only place in the league he could possibly do that is the Warriors, because we're the only team where it's easier to grab rebounds than the Nets.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 11:23 am
No. I'm not kidding. Kidd is a cerebral player that bases his game around know-how, fundamental skill, and a passing style that can best be described as the drunken boxing of basketball. It's never fair when you, as a defender, can't tell what's coming... and JKidd is especially good at that.
I disagree with the notion that he can't play defense anymore; Kidd is still one of the league's bigger points that can body up guys like Baron Davis, Deron Williams, and Derek Fisher with ease. And rebounding has never been a problem for him; not in Phoenix or Dallas (before), so I dunno why that would change. He's always managed to grab 7-9 boards a game. In Dallas, with weapons like Dirk, Josh Howard, and Jerry Stack, Kidd will rocket up his assist numbers, too.

He's lost his quickness, but he's clearly not done. I think 2-years is a worst-case scenario for him, too. If all goes normally for Kidd, he should be able to play until he's 40. He's THAT good. I think Kidd has been lost in the shuffle of the Eastern Conference for some time now and people forget just HOW GOOD he is. Kidd, on his best day, is still the best point guard in the league (yes, over Nash. Kidd has him in everything but scoring).

On a final note, I don't think Devin Harris will ever come close to being what Jason Kidd is NOW (aka, out of his prime). He's one of those undersized 2 guards that's trying to play the point, like Monta and Kevin Martin. He'll get his points from the foul line, like usual, but he'll never be the player Kidd is.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 11:53 am
32 wrote:No. I'm not kidding. Kidd is a cerebral player that bases his game around know-how, fundamental skill, and a passing style that can best be described as the drunken boxing of basketball. It's never fair when you, as a defender, can't tell what's coming... and JKidd is especially good at that.
I disagree with the notion that he can't play defense anymore; Kidd is still one of the league's bigger points that can body up guys like Baron Davis, Deron Williams, and Derek Fisher with ease. And rebounding has never been a problem for him; not in Phoenix or Dallas (before), so I dunno why that would change. He's always managed to grab 7-9 boards a game. In Dallas, with weapons like Dirk, Josh Howard, and Jerry Stack, Kidd will rocket up his assist numbers, too.

He's lost his quickness, but he's clearly not done. I think 2-years is a worst-case scenario for him, too. If all goes normally for Kidd, he should be able to play until he's 40. He's THAT good. I think Kidd has been lost in the shuffle of the Eastern Conference for some time now and people forget just HOW GOOD he is. Kidd, on his best day, is still the best point guard in the league (yes, over Nash. Kidd has him in everything but scoring).

On a final note, I don't think Devin Harris will ever come close to being what Jason Kidd is NOW (aka, out of his prime). He's one of those undersized 2 guards that's trying to play the point, like Monta and Kevin Martin. He'll get his points from the foul line, like usual, but he'll never be the player Kidd is.


It's not about that. It's about what New Jersey could have gotten for him. And this is the best trade they had over the table. Devin Harris might never be Kidd, I'm with you on that, but he's probably the best player the Nets could have gotten in any trade involving Kidd.

The Gasol trade was high robbery. This one was just lopsided.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 12:26 pm
TMC wrote:
32 wrote:No. I'm not kidding. Kidd is a cerebral player that bases his game around know-how, fundamental skill, and a passing style that can best be described as the drunken boxing of basketball. It's never fair when you, as a defender, can't tell what's coming... and JKidd is especially good at that.
I disagree with the notion that he can't play defense anymore; Kidd is still one of the league's bigger points that can body up guys like Baron Davis, Deron Williams, and Derek Fisher with ease. And rebounding has never been a problem for him; not in Phoenix or Dallas (before), so I dunno why that would change. He's always managed to grab 7-9 boards a game. In Dallas, with weapons like Dirk, Josh Howard, and Jerry Stack, Kidd will rocket up his assist numbers, too.

He's lost his quickness, but he's clearly not done. I think 2-years is a worst-case scenario for him, too. If all goes normally for Kidd, he should be able to play until he's 40. He's THAT good. I think Kidd has been lost in the shuffle of the Eastern Conference for some time now and people forget just HOW GOOD he is. Kidd, on his best day, is still the best point guard in the league (yes, over Nash. Kidd has him in everything but scoring).

On a final note, I don't think Devin Harris will ever come close to being what Jason Kidd is NOW (aka, out of his prime). He's one of those undersized 2 guards that's trying to play the point, like Monta and Kevin Martin. He'll get his points from the foul line, like usual, but he'll never be the player Kidd is.


It's not about that. It's about what New Jersey could have gotten for him. And this is the best trade they had over the table. Devin Harris might never be Kidd, I'm with you on that, but he's probably the best player the Nets could have gotten in any trade involving Kidd.

The Gasol trade was high robbery. This one was just lopsided.

Well, that goes without saying.

I was just expressing my side of the argument to Pest, who had labled Devin Harris as "almost as good as Kidd, but 10 years younger". I don't think Harris is "almost as good" as Kidd. In fact, I don't think it's even close at all.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 2:44 pm
If you consider the fact that Kidd demanded a trade, which always brings down value, NJ didn't really get a bad deal...obviosly it's great for Dallas to get Kidd back, but I hardly think the Nets were ripped off.
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