Miller is one of the few Raiders that I like. I see him having a career along the lines of Todd Heap... a really productive tight end with great hands, and a really tough player that can take a hit. He will probably be an all-star a couple of times, but nothing more than that.

Vernon, on the other hand, has an endless possibility. I actually think that he has the chance to be the best tight end ever. Even though he hasnt shown up his year and change, he is the fastest tight end in the league, the strongest tight end in the league, and the best trash talking tight end in the league. I think that if they were to use him right, he will put up better stats than some hall of fame receievers.

TMC wrote:Not my fight, but here's my take (as impartial as a fan of another team can be).

Na, man, I always like listening to your opinion, even though you are a Bucs fan.

sfsfsfgiants wrote:Miller is one of the few Raiders that I like. I see him having a career along the lines of Todd Heap... a really productive tight end with great hands, and a really tough player that can take a hit. He will probably be an all-star a couple of times, but nothing more than that.

Vernon, on the other hand, has an endless possibility. I actually think that he has the chance to be the best tight end ever. Even though he hasnt shown up his year and change, he is the fastest tight end in the league, the strongest tight end in the league, and the best trash talking tight end in the league. I think that if they were to use him right, he will put up better stats than some hall of fame receievers.

Yeah, that's what I said. Miller is more of a possession receiver like Todd Heap type.

Vernon's mixed with trash talking and the potential to play WR in the slot or putting him at the top and Jackson in the slot for a certain play. You can do so many things with him, there are endless possibilities.

sfsfsfgiants wrote:Miller is one of the few Raiders that I like. I see him having a career along the lines of Todd Heap... a really productive tight end with great hands, and a really tough player that can take a hit. He will probably be an all-star a couple of times, but nothing more than that.

I think Olsen (Bears) is the one that will shine the most from this year's draft. I think Miller will be a good one, but not on Todd Heap's level.

Not until he proves it, that is.

I think that they will both be pretty good in the future.

pawnograffiti wrote:Gore is actually quite a talented runningback.. but still i couldn't compare him to Lamont Jordan cause they are 2 different moulds.

Gore has electrifying speed and can get to the edges very quick... But he has nothing on Lamont Jordan on being a bruising runner up the middle.

But if you asked me to compare Gore vs Rhodes, Well yeah there games are very similar. Gore by a Mile though in the conversation, he is the better runningback now and then... Rhodes does have a superbowl though

Know I'm a little late on this response, but do you have any Idea what you are talking about?!? No, the answer is you don't. Based on what you posted I assume you have never seen Gore run before.

I'll use the video here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ehKxL8yMSwA, to prove my points.

1)

pawnograffiti wrote:Gore has electrifying speed

Gore is not a fast back. - He gets caught from behind way too much. Don't confuse quickness with flat out speed.

2)

pawnograffiti wrote:[Gore] can get to the edges very quick

Gore is more of an inside runner than outside, most of the play calls are up the gut, but like any good RB he finds space - Watch the entire video and tell me most of those big runs didn't start up the middle.

3)

pawnograffiti wrote: he has nothing on Lamont Jordan on being a bruising runner up the middle.

This is where I actually think you are crazy! Gore is way more of a bruising back than Jordan - Check around 0:45 of the video (don't recall Jordan ever doing anything like that), no actually check the whole video! Gore has defenders draped all over him, and is shaking and breaking tackles left and right. Most of his yards come after contact.

4) This doesn't have much to do with this post, but check out the run at about 2:25! That shi't is just crazy - Jordan could never do something like that, but very few RBs ever could.

I tried to find some Jordan clips, but all I found was madden clips and electric table football. What? Not enough highlights or do Raider fan's not know how to use computers? (OK, that's a cheap shot, but it's all fun)

But if you look who is having the better season thus far it's be Jordan by far, who is having himself a nice season: 350 yards, 5.1 avg, 2 TDs, 11 Rec 121 yards. Gore has him beat in TDs but his 3.4 avg is killing us.

Edit: Actually the clip here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GlROL0ZaBpM Is better quality and supports my argument that Gore is an inside back better. But it doesn't have the circus play that the first vid has at 2:25.

Dude i seen Gore play and i'm not gonna say he's 100% get to the outside kind of back.; But from the games i've seen i just don't think he pounds it up the middle like Lamont would (Hey if i studied as mush red and gold footage then you, maybe i could make a different comment on it)

pawnograffiti wrote:Dude i seen Gore play and i'm not gonna say he's 100% get to the outside kind of back.; But from the games i've seen i just don't think he pounds it up the middle like Lamont would (Hey if i studied as mush red and gold footage then you, maybe i could make a different comment on it)

Don't have to study much, just check out a couple of 5 min clips, and they'll tell you different. But gore did have some holes you could drive a big rig threw, and damn we ran the draw and play action well last year...what happened? And I have watched a lot of raider games because they broadcast them here all the time - Jordan doesn't keep his feet moving like Gore. Sure he delivers big hits w/ his shoulder down but doesn't finish like he should.

pawnograffiti wrote:Dude i seen Gore play and i'm not gonna say he's 100% get to the outside kind of back.; But from the games i've seen i just don't think he pounds it up the middle like Lamont would (Hey if i studied as mush red and gold footage then you, maybe i could make a different comment on it)

Dude, most of his runs last year came up the middle behind Moran Norris, Larry Allen, and Jonas Jennings.

Hell, man, I could run through Allen and Jennings.

I don't know about running through, but running around them is possible.

xbaywarrior wrote:I don't know about running through, but running around them is possible.

It'd be like running around a city block.

They're beefin' right now, they got into a fight on the sideline last week. I hope the bad play by that side of the line has been due to some sort of beef and not that Allen is just getting old. I hope they hit rock bottom and are able to return to last years form. If not then I bet we'll shake up the personnel a little - look for more Bass and Harris (ugh) to get some PT.

They're our two best lineman. I seriously don't know how our line would be without them.

Allen is one of the best ever. People fight when they are having a rough time. I'm glad that they care enough to show emotion. Say goodbye to Justin Smiley, though. He is going to be gone next year, and David Baas will take his spot.

sfsfsfgiants wrote:Allen is one of the best ever. People fight when they are having a rough time. I'm glad that they care enough to show emotion. Say goodbye to Justin Smiley, though. He is going to be gone next year, and David Baas will take his spot.

Allen's the best guard ever IMO.

I don't even care about Smiley. I've been waiting for the day Baas starts full time. I liked him ever since we drafted him during that Smith, Baas, Gore 1-2-3 round draft year.