Cheating Patriots

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 4:05 pm
OK, I know there is an NFL Thread but I think this is a REALLY big topic. Supposedly, Goodell has determined that the Patriots ARE guilty of stealing signals and were videotaping the Jets coaches on the sideline.

To me that is HUGE. Maybe I am nieve and this stuff goes on all the time and the Patriots are just the ones that got caught, but I think the Pats need to be diciplined severly for this. This is just outright CHEATING. And there have been these same accusations for years with them.

When you watch the Pats play over the past several years, they really do seem to always be in great position and ahead of the game.... this really puts into doubt whether they are just a smart team and coaching staff or they were cheating to gain an advantage.

Thoughts?
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 4:17 pm
One school of thought on this is the baseball saying - "if you aren't cheating you aren't trying." I don't really agree in full with that, though. In baseball stealing signs is part of the game although it is a little silly to go out of the way to do it. Football though, it is pretty different. I'd say a good punishment would be to deny the Patriots the use of sideline-to-player electronic communication for a few games. That would make teams think twice about it.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 4:22 pm
They are going to try and push to take away draft picks from them this year. Good, show some balls, Goodell. Showing that even the most "classy" orginazation isnt just that...
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 4:28 pm
I see it totally different than stealing signs in baseball. First off, those can easily be changed and you are not using anything other than your eyes which both teams have. It is kind of like counting cards in blackjack. If you can do it, god bless you.

In the Patriots case, they are using technology not allowed or available to the other team. What this videotaping allows them to do is match up the video of the signals to the polariods taken of every pre snap and snap of the ball. They can then match up the signals to pre snap allingment, line stunt schemes, blitz packages and coverage packages. You basically can get their whole game plan. Not just whether an outside fastball is coming on this ONE pitch.

It is just a HUGE advantage to know on any given play when you show a certain formation that the def end is going to run a stunt and crash hard inside and the blitz is coming from outside the left tackle...etc.

In my estimation, anything short of them losing a 1st round pick next year is too lenient. This creates much more of a competitive inbalance that HGH or anything like that and a player who tests positive for that is suspended for 25% of the season on a first offense.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 5:35 pm
I wasn't really speaking about stealing pitch signs so much as steal and bunt signs - but it still pales in comparison to its effect on the game versus football.

But docking a draft pick is a good way to settle it. Maybe both taking away a pick and not letting them communicate with mics and headphones would be sufficient.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 5:54 pm
Thunder wrote:Maybe both taking away a pick and not letting them communicate with mics and headphones would be sufficient.


They wont do that, that's the way that they call plays....
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 7:19 pm
You can call plays without having coach to player headsets - think of most high school programs and even some lesser college programs . . . or even the NFL in 60's and 70's - it is very possible to do it - thing is it is a hassle though.

It is actually a rule in the NFL that if one team's headset breaks neither side can use them because it is such an advantage to have them. That is why I think it is appropriate to go this route with the punishment - sort of a "if you want to steal plays then we'll make life hell for you when you try to call plays" kind of thing.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 7:43 pm
Even if it isn't true, why would you want to steal signals? What's wrong with Belichick? Getting old? Or are they preparing themselves for the afterlife once Belichick retires? They can make up their own signals for plays.

Last time the Pats were in the news about "cheating"... they got blown out the next week.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 7:43 pm
The only way that you can do it nowadays is if the coach is giving you signs and stuff, and that wont work in the NFL, when you have opposing teams stealing signs. You could also sub a play in on every play, but that would be a pain in the ass to do. Honestly, the Pats are going to lose a fifth round pick or something, and that is all. They are the face of the NFL, and if it was the Bengals or something, a team that is having all sorts of discipline problems, they would get in more trouble.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 7:56 pm
sfsfsfgiants wrote:The only way that you can do it nowadays is if the coach is giving you signs and stuff, and that wont work in the NFL, when you have opposing teams stealing signs. You could also sub a play in on every play, but that would be a pain in the ass to do. Honestly, the Pats are going to lose a fifth round pick or something, and that is all. They are the face of the NFL, and if it was the Bengals or something, a team that is having all sorts of discipline problems, they would get in more trouble.


But you said it yourself - there are ways to do it but it is just a pain in the ass. Doesn't that seem more appropriate than losing a 5th rounder?
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 8:05 pm
I'm saying what is going to happen, not what I want to happen. I would love to see them make an example out of the Patriots, but it's just not going to happen. Tom Brady is the face of football, and they just wont do anything to his team. A 5th round pick could be stretching it... maybe a sixth or seventh.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 8:25 pm
Guarantee you Goodell punishes them more that that. He loses all credibility with the players union if he punishes PLAYERS way more severe than TEAMS.

He has HARD COLD evidence of cheating in his hand. I bet they lose a 1st or multiple picks like a 2nd AND a 3rd.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 8:29 pm
:? I bet you that he doesnt.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 8:34 pm
sfsfsfgiants wrote::? I bet you that he doesnt.


OK, lets bet. Gentleman's bet. I bet they lose AT LEAST a 3rd round pick
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 8:37 pm
You're on... No way they lose a third round pick. :wink:
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