Lebron's Value and Flip's bad coaching

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 11:04 pm
I've looked at every finals team in the past 45 years to see how rare it is to do what Lebron's doing with such a weak supporting cast. Here's the list I've finalists that you could even suggest had as bad a second option as hughes:

2003 Spurs - Young Parker, Old Robinson
1993 Rockets - Otis Thorpe, Vernon Maxwell, Kenny the Jet
1978 Bullets - Mitch Kupchak, Bob Dandridge

Pretty rare a guy with a supporting cast like Lebron gets to the finals.

Just as rare, probably, as a 22 year old being the main superstar on a finalist team.

On the other end of the spectrum, it's amazing Flip Saunders' ability to make a team lose in the playoffs. In the past 5 years he's had three #1 seed teams, and none of them have been able to get to the finals.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 1:18 am
what about rick barry? You think his 2nd option was better?
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 1:36 am
tHe_pEsTiLeNcE wrote:I've looked at every finals team in the past 45 years to see how rare it is to do what Lebron's doing with such a weak supporting cast. Here's the list I've finalists that you could even suggest had as bad a second option as hughes:

2003 Spurs - Young Parker, Old Robinson
1993 Rockets - Otis Thorpe, Vernon Maxwell, Kenny the Jet
1978 Bullets - Mitch Kupchak, Bob Dandridge

Pretty rare a guy with a supporting cast like Lebron gets to the finals.

Just as rare, probably, as a 22 year old being the main superstar on a finalist team.


Yeah, usually teams that make it to the finals have two stars, at least. It's rare for a team with only one great player to win the conference.

I think you can also add AI's Sixers to that list. Mutombo was great on defense (as most of the role players on that team), but they only had one star. They went as far as AI took them. Without him, that team wasn't even playoff worthy.

tHe_pEsTiLeNcE wrote:On the other end of the spectrum, it's amazing Flip Saunders' ability to make a team lose in the playoffs. In the past 5 years he's had three #1 seed teams, and none of them have been able to get to the finals.


I've been saying so since he was coaching Minny...
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 4:35 am
TMC makes a great point with the 76ers and Iverson's very weak team. Lebron is just that good and Gobson has been unbelievable lately otherwise the Pistons would have won that series in 5.

As far as Flip Saunders being a bad coach - His teams would not have won much at all of he was not good. Give the Pistons a coach like Woodson or any of the other in and out of the nba quick coaches and they would have won nothing. They were better with Larry Brown but he is one of the best coaches ever. Flip is quite good, not great
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 4:39 am
migya wrote:As far as Flip Saunders being a bad coach - His teams would not have won much at all of he was not good. Give the Pistons a coach like Woodson or any of the other in and out of the nba quick coaches and they would have won nothing. They were better with Larry Brown but he is one of the best coaches ever. Flip is quite good, not great


It's funny. I think Mike Woodson would be a great coach for the Pistons. He was Brown's assistant there, and pretty much knows everything that made that team a contender. Would have been a much better pick for the Pistons.

On the other side, saying Woodson is a bad coach is unfair. He's coaching the friggin' Hawks... Even Riley would look like a poor coach in Atlanta.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 4:42 am
TMC wrote:
migya wrote:As far as Flip Saunders being a bad coach - His teams would not have won much at all of he was not good. Give the Pistons a coach like Woodson or any of the other in and out of the nba quick coaches and they would have won nothing. They were better with Larry Brown but he is one of the best coaches ever. Flip is quite good, not great


It's funny. I think Mike Woodson would be a great coach for the Pistons. He was Brown's assistant there, and pretty much knows everything that made that team a contender. Would have been a much better pick for the Pistons.

On the other side, saying Woodson is a bad coach is unfair. He's coaching the friggin' Hawks... Even Riley would look like a poor coach in Atlanta.



Disagree. Think that the Hawks just need a good coach to make it work. They have very good young talent that, used properly, would make them a playoff team definately
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 5:11 am
migya wrote:Disagree. Think that the Hawks just need a good coach to make it work. They have very good young talent that, used properly, would make them a playoff team definately


Uh?. Other than Joe Johnson and Smith, I don't see all that talent...
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 10:58 am
coltraning wrote:what about rick barry? You think his 2nd option was better?

yeah, I guess you could say Larry hughes is better than Jamal Wilkes was back then.......

As for the 76ers, I consider Ratliff and Mutumbo, even then, better than Hughes because they contributed just as much as him and also knew their place on the team.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 12:27 pm
tHe_pEsTiLeNcE wrote:
coltraning wrote:what about rick barry? You think his 2nd option was better?

yeah, I guess you could say Larry hughes is better than Jamal Wilkes was back then.......

As for the 76ers, I consider Ratliff and Mutumbo, even then, better than Hughes because they contributed just as much as him and also knew their place on the team.

Agreed. The 76ers had an extremely underrated cast of blue-collars who all knew their role: rebound, defend, and get out of Iverson's way on offense.

It was actually the ideal lineup to place around a player like Iverson, who needs to constantly be chucking up 30 shots a night to be effective.
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 7:28 pm
tHe_pEsTiLeNcE wrote:
coltraning wrote:what about rick barry? You think his 2nd option was better?

yeah, I guess you could say Larry hughes is better than Jamal Wilkes was back then.......

As for the 76ers, I consider Ratliff and Mutumbo, even then, better than Hughes because they contributed just as much as him and also knew their place on the team.



You do realise the sixers traded Ratliff and a copule others for Mutombo :wink: That sixers team only had Mutombo, Snow, McKie and Tyrone Hill that were the only productive supporting cast and they were not good at all
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 2:48 am
migya wrote:
tHe_pEsTiLeNcE wrote:
coltraning wrote:what about rick barry? You think his 2nd option was better?

yeah, I guess you could say Larry hughes is better than Jamal Wilkes was back then.......

As for the 76ers, I consider Ratliff and Mutumbo, even then, better than Hughes because they contributed just as much as him and also knew their place on the team.



You do realise the sixers traded Ratliff and a copule others for Mutombo :wink: That sixers team only had Mutombo, Snow, McKie and Tyrone Hill that were the only productive supporting cast and they were not good at all


George Lynch, too. But that's all they had. That team was pitiful on offense, with only AI as an option... but they were real good on defense.

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