To All The Iverson Supporters...

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Can we finally all agree that Allen Iverson is a blackhole?

Yes, but not because of Iguodala.
1
10%
Yes, Iggy's stardom proves it.
4
40%
No, Iguodala was going to blow up anyway.
2
20%
No, Iguodala's numbers having nothing to do with Iverson.
3
30%
 
Total votes : 10

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 3:55 pm
If anybody here needs any further proof that AI is a cancer, one needs to look no further than the Denver/Philly trade's effect on Andre Iguodala.

Allen Iverson (before being benched) played for the 76ers from November 1st to December 6th of this season (aka, 17 games). During that time, Iguodala averaged the following stat-line:

WITH ALLEN IVERSON
13.5 PPG, 6.3 RPG, 4.4 APG, 2.0 SPG, 0.4 BPG
In 39.4 MPG


Allen Iverson was removed from the lineup after the 76er's third game in December (they played 16 in all that month). Subtracting those 3 games from the schedule, Iguodala's numbers for that month ended as:

DECEMBER (MINUS 3 GAMES WITH IVERSON)
20.5 PPG, 4.9 RPG, 5.6 APG, 2.2 SPG, 0.4 BPG
In 40.8 MPG


Following that month, Iguodala's monthly averages have skyrocketed:

JANUARY
18.2 PPG, 5.1 RPG, 5.8 APG, 2.0 SPG, 0.2 BPG
In 38.5 MPG

FEBRUARY
20.0 PPG, 6.5 RPG, 7.6 APG, 1.4 SPG, 0.8 BPG
In 42.1 MPG

MARCH (as of 3/12/07)
25.8 PPG, 7.4 RPG, 6.0 APG, 3.2 SPG, 0.0 BPG
In 44.5 MPG


By the way, WITH Iverson, the team was 5-12 (aka, having a 29% season). Without Iverson, the team's gone 20-26 (aka, winning 43% of the time). Aint that a bitch for you people that claiming the 76ers would be NOTHING without AI...? ::lol:

I'd simply LOVE to hear an explaination for this from somebody whose said Allen Iverson ISN'T a blackhole... or, better yet, one of the few people who actually claimed AI was a playmaker who made his teammates better. Please. Enlighten us as to how Andre Iguodala seemed like a Mickael Pietrus prior to the Iverson trade... and is now putting up MVP numbers without AI.

Also, how is it that the 76ers actually IMPROVED after getting rid of Iverson in what most people refered to as a total hose from Denver?

I'm prepared to hear whatever excuses anybody's willing to come up with...
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 9:39 pm
Yeah, I believe Iverson is what held up Iggy from exploding. His numbers and play speak of it. Did anyone see the Lakers game... better yet highlights of it? Iggy went off on those guys whether it was offensively or defensively. This guy is going to the all star game next year.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 10:11 pm
It even goes beyond Iguodala. Read the rest of what I wrote:

32 wrote:By the way, WITH Iverson, the team was 5-12 (aka, having a 29% season). Without Iverson, the team's gone 20-26 (aka, winning 43% of the time). Aint that a bitch for you people that claiming the 76ers would be NOTHING without AI...? ::lol:


Allen Iverson = The Answer.

How to a render a team's talented young players useless = The Question


The seemingly talentless Sixers (at least, thats how it seemed when AI was in town) suddenly have rising stars like Iggy, Kyle Korver, and Samuel Dalemert?

Those players were kinda decent, while Iverson was in town... Good role players, nothing special. Now that ::lol: "the Answer" is gone, Iggy looks like an MVP candidate, Korver seems like the best shooter in the league, and Dalembert could be one of the best centers in the East.

No wonder Denver threw Julius Hodge into the trade. With Iverson in town, they knew he'd never amount to anything. Iverson doesn't pass to you unless you're an established star, like Stackhouse, Van Horn, or Webber... and, even then, your numbers seriously dip.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 11:43 pm
I agree and this is good news as he'll ruin Denver who we are competing with for playoff spots.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 1:29 am
Iguodala is doing better large thanks to the great playmaking abilities of Andre Miller, he said so himself a few weeks after the trade! Dalembert isn't doing a whole lot better.

The sixers have only started winning recently and had lost plenty before then. The Nuggets are about where they were before they got Iverson so no real change there. What can be seen is that Carmelo, Nene and Camby have not been negatively affected by the arrival of Iverson
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 4:18 am
migya wrote:Iguodala is doing better large thanks to the great playmaking abilities of Andre Miller, he said so himself a few weeks after the trade! Dalembert isn't doing a whole lot better.


Yeah, don't think Iggy has improved only because AI is not there. Having Andre Miller has helped the whole Sixers team a great deal. That's why I thought they should have traded him if they were serious about tanking.

With that said, I agree that AI was holding down the team. Of course he has to be the first option on offense, and that's a problem if you don't have the specific kind of players required to help him. If he's surrounded by a great defensive team (not only good, it has to be great), he can carry them far into the playoffs. If not, he's a problem.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 8:27 am
TMC wrote:With that said, I agree that AI was holding down the team.

That's all you need to say.

There's absolutely no denying the numbers in the win column. Philly's doubled their winning percentage since the Iverson trade. How can ANYBODY defend the notion that Allen Iverson is one of the Top 10 players in this league when he was a cancerous lump on the teat of the Philidelphia 76ers???

"The man took his team to the Finals!... once :roll:"
"He consistently averages 7 assists per game, so he's not a ballhog!"
"Iverson averages 30 PPG! How many people can do that!?!"


How come I'm not hearing ANY of these excuses in this thread...? :wink:
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 9:19 am
Those aren't excuses, they're reasons why the man is definately a top 10 player, top 5 even in the nba and has always been :wink:
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 9:50 am
migya wrote:Those aren't excuses, they're reasons why the man is definately a top 10 player, top 5 even in the nba and has always been :wink:

How can you say that?

The 76ers looked dead, when Iverson was in town. They seemed destined for rebuilding. Now, they look like the East Coast Warriors. They're a player or two away from a big playoff run.

76ers before trade: dead in the water, no direction, being bogged down by Iverson.

76ers after trade: young, exciting, fresh, winning, and with enough cap room to sign another gun to their squad.

Its what I've been saying all along about Iverson: a player is more than his numbers. Allen Iverson was holding Philly, while everybody was claiming he was their only hope... and he'll prove to be a cancer in Denver as well. AI is a blackhole. Blackholes are not good, in a team-game like basketball.

How can you possibly continue to support Iverson against evidence like this? Give me logical or statistical reasons?
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 10:00 am
You gave the stats in your previous post :wink:

The sixers and Iverson were headed for separation anyway, it was just a matter of time. The Nugs have not fallen or risen since Iverson's arrival BUT they had been without some players due to suspension (Carmelo the leading scorer) and JR Smith is still not there. KMart, like usual, is earning for doing nothing. He is no negative in Denver so far
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 10:27 am
The Nuggets record since aquiring Iverson has been 16-22 (aka, 42%).
Before Iverson suited up for them, they were 14-9 (aka, 61%).

In other words, the Nuggets were on track to be 37-24 by this time (prior to the trade)... but they're only 30-31. Seems like keeping Andre Miller would have been a more worthwhile idea. :roll:

Go ahead. Blame it on suspensions, injuries, slumps, teammates, coaching, ect. Iverson supporters always have an excuse for him.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 10:59 am
32 wrote:The Nuggets record since aquiring Iverson has been 16-22 (aka, 42%).
Before Iverson suited up for them, they were 14-9 (aka, 61%).

Go ahead. Blame it on suspensions, injuries, slumps, teammates, coaching, ect. Iverson supporters always have an excuse for him.


If not having Baron is an excuse for us, not having Melo, K-Mart and all the suspended players is also valid for Denver.

AI may or may not work well with Melo... but we have to give them a full season to prove themselves. Let's wait til the end of next season to say if he's a cancer to Denver or not.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 11:50 am
Carmelo Anthony's suspension ended January 22. He's played alongside Allen Iverson for nearly 3 months now.

Since Melo's return from suspension, Denver is 10-14 (aka 42%, the same percentage they've been playing at since the Iverson trade).

The above stat proves that Iverson has nuetralized Carmelo Anthony. In fact, in the time frame after Iverson arrived (but before Melo came back), the Nuggets were 6-8 (which just happens to be 42%, also). The fact that the Nuggets winning percentage is EXACTLY the same with or without Carmelo Anthony, in the Iverson-Era, is complete proof that AI has totally nuetralized Melo, identically how he did the same thing to every player they put around him in Philly.

Its painfully clear. When the Nuggets have Iverson, they're a 42% team. Going by that, they'll finish the season 39-43. If the Nuggets finish dramatically above that, I'm a liar. If they can win 43 or 44 games, you have your proof. If not, it's time for you Iverson sympathizers to admit defeat.

I still can't believe how stubborn some people can be in the face of blatant proof. :wink:
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 11:59 am
That doesn't prove anything. You can expect them to have chemistry and know how to play together when they haven't had more than a couple of months to figure that.

They should be given some time to develop that chemistry and know what's their role in the team. A full season at least. I'll be ready to have a final say on the trade by the end of next season. Not before.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 13, 2007 2:26 pm
It didn't take Ron Artest that long to adjust to the Kings' style last year... and Baron Davis didn't take that long, either, the year before that. Shaq seemed confortable in the Heat's system from Day 1 and Vince Carter fit into New Jersey perfectly. Most people on this board would put Allen Iverson above any of the players listed here. How comes Allen Iverson needs a full year to fit in? So far, the only other guy I see getting THAT response is Mike Dunleavy from Pacers fans in denial...
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