The possibility of a steve nash repeat

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 2:18 pm
TMC wrote:
coltraning wrote:It is much better when a great team has a rival (see celtics-lakers) as opposed to one team dominance (ala the bulls) so I am glad that the Mavs and Suns are both tearing up the league with such differing styles...does anyone doubt that the real final will be the western conference one?


Yeah, I just don't think the Mavs will be there. Even tho they're playing great right now, I still have the Spurs (maybe the Nuggets, too, but not until AI and Melo show they can play together) over them.

Why? The mavs have improved since last year (when they beat the spurs) and the spurs haven't. The mavs are on a 67 win pace.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 2:40 pm
tHe_pEsTiLeNcE wrote:Why? The mavs have improved since last year (when they beat the spurs) and the spurs haven't. The mavs are on a 67 win pace.


Yep. Makes no sense at all. That's why it's a gutsy call. There's always a contender that falls short. And I don't think it will happen to the Suns.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 12:48 pm
Nash is good no doubt.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 3:56 pm
Yes, but I am is believing Michael Jordan to be better, no? :)
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 9:44 pm
#32 wrote:Yes, but I am is believing Michael Jordan to be better, no? :)

LOL

that's what I think is stupid about the people saying "nash shouldn't win a third MVP because he isn't as good as Bird, Russell, and Wilt". Since when are MVPs what defines a career, let alone consecutive MVPs. They're a single season award. Nobody ever said "nobody but jordan can win this next MVP because he needs to get three in a row because otherwise Russell will ahve had a better career than him"
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 3:41 am
tHe_pEsTiLeNcE wrote:
#32 wrote:Yes, but I am is believing Michael Jordan to be better, no? :)

LOL

that's what I think is stupid about the people saying "nash shouldn't win a third MVP because he isn't as good as Bird, Russell, and Wilt". Since when are MVPs what defines a career, let alone consecutive MVPs. They're a single season award. Nobody ever said "nobody but jordan can win this next MVP because he needs to get three in a row because otherwise Russell will ahve had a better career than him"


To be honest, I don't care much about the regular season's MVP award. I think it's much more important the finals MVP award (even tho it gets overshadowed by the fact that the winner has also won the championship).
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 6:28 am
tHe_pEsTiLeNcE wrote:
#32 wrote:Yes, but I am is believing Michael Jordan to be better, no? :)

LOL

that's what I think is stupid about the people saying "nash shouldn't win a third MVP because he isn't as good as Bird, Russell, and Wilt". Since when are MVPs what defines a career, let alone consecutive MVPs. They're a single season award. Nobody ever said "nobody but jordan can win this next MVP because he needs to get three in a row because otherwise Russell will ahve had a better career than him"



That's right. Nash really has been the most valuable there is these last three years and not many have ever been as important to their teams as he has
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 11:06 am
tHe_pEsTiLeNcE wrote:
TMC wrote:
coltraning wrote:It is much better when a great team has a rival (see celtics-lakers) as opposed to one team dominance (ala the bulls) so I am glad that the Mavs and Suns are both tearing up the league with such differing styles...does anyone doubt that the real final will be the western conference one?


Yeah, I just don't think the Mavs will be there. Even tho they're playing great right now, I still have the Spurs (maybe the Nuggets, too, but not until AI and Melo show they can play together) over them.

Why? The mavs have improved since last year (when they beat the spurs) and the spurs haven't. The mavs are on a 67 win pace.

it's all a snapshot, but right now the Suns and Mavs are easily the class of the league. I actually think when Yao and Odom come back, the Nuggets, Rockets and Lakers could all pass the Spurs in formidability (not a word, but I like it.)
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 11:17 am
coltraning wrote:it's all a snapshot, but right now the Suns and Mavs are easily the class of the league. I actually think when Yao and Odom come back, the Nuggets, Rockets and Lakers could all pass the Spurs in formidability (not a word, but I like it.)


I don't know what everybody sees in the Lakers. They have an MVP contender, a borderline all star in Odom and two good youngins in Bynum and Farmar... add to that one of the best coaches (arguably the best) of the league...

I mean, that's enough for making the playoffs and maybe, pending on the matchup, pass a round... but that's all. I can't see how that team is going to beat on "formidability" any of the mentioned, much less the Spurs.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 11:28 am
TMC wrote:
coltraning wrote:it's all a snapshot, but right now the Suns and Mavs are easily the class of the league. I actually think when Yao and Odom come back, the Nuggets, Rockets and Lakers could all pass the Spurs in formidability (not a word, but I like it.)


I don't know what everybody sees in the Lakers. They have an MVP contender, a borderline all star in Odom and two good youngins in Bynum and Farmar... add to that one of the best coaches (arguably the best) of the league...

I mean, that's enough for making the playoffs and maybe, pending on the matchup, pass a round... but that's all. I can't see how that team is going to beat on "formidability" any of the mentioned, much less the Spurs.

The Lakers are really well-coached, play within the system, have made their peace with Kobe - have you watched them this year? They play very well. Remember, with a less functional team, Bynum playing far less well, they took the Suns to 7 games. Don't get me wrong, I think the West final will be Mavs-Suns, but I do think the Spurs are slipping. TD is still great, but he is aging and they really don't have a bona fide #2 option. Parker and Ginobili are really #3s at this point. Also, Bowen is what, 89 years old? Robert Horry is 93? I see them as a team on the fade, though they will win in the 50s this year.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 11:32 am
coltraning wrote:The Lakers are really well-coached, play within the system, have made their peace with Kobe - have you watched them this year? They play very well.


Yeah, that's true. It's just that I have the feeling that they're at the top of their game. That's great now... but on the playoffs probably won't be enough.

About the Spurs... I kind of agree, but I think it's the opposite of the Lakers. They'll bring their A game in the playoffs... although I also think their window to win it all is closing fast. This season, maybe the next... and that's all. They need to start adding some young guys to help TD and Parker.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 11:39 am
TMC wrote:
coltraning wrote:The Lakers are really well-coached, play within the system, have made their peace with Kobe - have you watched them this year? They play very well.


Yeah, that's true. It's just that I have the feeling that they're at the top of their game. That's great now... but on the playoffs probably won't be enough.


don't know about that - they are 27-15 with Odom out and playing a 19=year-old at center. Also, I haven't seen Kobe this at ease with his teammates since the first Shaq ring. It's his team now. Odom comes back Friday, so that can only help, and eventually (don't laugh) Kwame returns, who can be effective in limited minutes. Lakers will be 5th seed for the playoffs, at least, and NO ONE will want to play them. I still pick and want the Suns to take it all, for truth, justice, team ball and the Canadian way :mrgreen:
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2007 5:19 pm
An update on the MVP race

All Nash cares about is the win, but in the process of this winning his stats are faring rather well as well.

Steve has quietly upped his assists to that of his career high. His points are at a career high and his FG% is at an amazing .539, with his adj fg% of 63% leading the league. What most don't talk about is his record setting three point shooting. Right now, Nash is shooting 49.8% from the three point line on 5.2 attempts per game. Now that isn't leading the league, but it's certainly the best anybody has ever done taking that many shots. Nobody has ever taken 325 three point attempts and shot 49% from the three point line. Nash is on a pace for 425 attempts and is shooting 50%. The percentage he's shooting in the amount of shots he's taking is far more impressive than any fred hoiberg or tim legler number that was produced on 0.6 attempts per game or something like that. This is a demonstration that Nash may be the single best shooter in the NBA, between his #1 fg% among guards, #1 adj fg% in the NBA, top ten points per shot in the NBA, top twelve ft% in the NBA (he's having an off year), #2 ALL TIME career ft% (if you count ABA as part of somebody's career, which you should since the ft line is in the same place in the ABA), top 5 career three point % all time, and #2 three point shooter in the league this year.

Normally being the best shooter in the league, the best passer in the league, a 20 ppg scorer, and doing all the little things Nash does on a 65+ win team would be the clearcut MVP, however this year it's uncertain.

Nowitsky, who has improved his game dramatically without nash, is two games away from taking the Mavericks to their THIRD double digit win streak. They are on a pace to win just as many games as the Suns with arguably less supporting cast. The only problem is that Dirk's game isn't any different than previous years when he didn't win mvp... and Nash did. The raise in the Mavs' game has more to do with Josh Howard emerging as a force and Harris and Dampier having up years, being utilized just the right amount by the coach. One could argue that Dirk's game hasn't changed in three years so why should he win the MVP this year? (some would say he deserved it the last few years of course)

Kobe is a tricky one. There are a lot of people in the press who are dying to give Kobe an MVP and there are a lot of people who wouldn't vote for him if he took a team to an 82-0 record with Brian Scalbrine, Mike Dunleavy, Mark Madsen, and Adonal Foyle starting next to him. The Lakers are on a 53 win pace, about 15 less than the Mavs and Suns, but Kobe definitely has less help. Some think that when Odom comes back the Lakers would do better but I think that is counterbalanced by the fact that the Lakers have gotten lucky and should have about three less wins than they do.

I think if the Lakers win 55, Kobe likely gets MVP, deservedly or not, unless the Suns or Mavs break 70.....It will likely come down to whichever of the two teams has more wins. The people who don't want nash to get a third MVP because he doesn't belong in the same sentence as the other three peaters are a vocal minority

On a slightly different note, the spurs look to win about 61 games this year, based on their performance so far. They've had some close losses but are winning by a lot.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 12:09 am
The Mavs and Suns are on an amazing tear and look set to clash in the Western Conference Finals! Both teams play great team ball and deserve to be the bets. Spurs are still the Spurs look like they are sleeping a bit and should rise up in the playoffs so it is really a three team race.

Nash is just amazing and the stats Pest brought up show he is unique. He deserves MVP and that would put him in an exclusive class of three stright MVPs
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 12:36 am
I agree with pest's amazing analysis (we're lucky to have the stats man on the board). Nash, Nowitzki and Bryant are the 3 obvious choices this year. I totally thought Nash deserved it the last 2 years, but this year I don't know. I understand what you are saying about Nowitzki and so on, but let's face it, Nash has 2 all-star players on his team (undeniably so, whether or not they make it) and Nowitzki has MAYBE one (who would you leave off to put Howard on?) and yet the Mavs are having a truly amazing year. With a healthy Odom I actually don't think the Lakers have any less talent than do the Mavs...in my view, either Avery repeats as coach of the year or they have to give the MVP to Dirk.
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